DD (16) physically retaliated in a fight with DS (6). I don’t know what to do.

[CandidPearlWasp]

Hi everyone. I’m having a very tough time with my children and hoping for some advice.

My DD is 16, and my son (her half brother) is 6. DD splits her time 50/50 between our house and my ex husband’s house.

Recently my son has been having behavioural challenges. Our physician suspects he has ODD and ADHD, and we are awaiting therapy and services for him. In the meantime, he has explosive and sometimes violent meltdowns and everyday tasks are a battle when he’s not getting his way. He has hit, punched, pulled hair, bit, etc. all of us and it’s been awful, but we can usually deescalate the situation, but since he’s a tall boy and weighs 65lbs it does hurt.

Two weeks ago my DD was in her bedroom watching something on her iPad, which her father bought for her. We do not have one for my son, so he’s been very intrigued by it and she’s let him use it before. This time, he went in and said he wanted to play on it. She said no. He started to have a verbal meltdown and she said “I said no, get out of my room please”. This escalated into him climbing onto her bed, hitting her in the face and pulling her hair. She then grabbed him by the hair, got off the bed by standing up while holding his hair and dragged him out of her room and across the hall by the hair. He was screaming in pain and fear and she threw him into his room, said “that doesn’t feel good, does it?” and slammed the door.

I was outside as this happened and alerted by the nanny cam we have downstairs. I rushed in and ran into my 6 year old’s room to calm him down, as he was wailing. My 16 year old came in and got angry with me saying it’s all always about him, even though he was “a little psycho who attacked her”. I told her that I understood it’s not okay he attacked her, but he’s a small child and what she did wasn’t okay. She left for her father’s that night and hasn’t been back, is barely speaking to me and won’t speak to or apologize to her brother. She’s made it clear to me she thinks she did nothing wrong.

I’m at a loss - about how to handle my son, how to reconnect with my daughter and how to move forward as a family.

Have you apologised to your DD yet?

It sounds like it's true that the whole house does revolve around your ds and I imagine the hurt and rejection has been building, with this incident as the final straw for her.

I'm really sorry it has come to this op. As the pp said, I'd concentrate on slowly repairing your own relationship with her first rather than the whole family relationship/dynamic.

Is there any further backstory here to explain the furious lashing out? Was she happy enough when you remarried and had DS? Always been amicable with her dad?

Your DD sounds really angry, she is 16, so a hurricane of hormones and emotions. I’d not want to go back either if the alternative was a nice safe house where I felt like a priority. I think there is a lot of apologising and making up to do before she comes home to you again, maybe spend a lot of time just the two of you, doing whatever she likes out of the house. Even if she feels more comfortable living with her dad until uni or what ever, its only two more years, you want to keep a bond between you so prioritise that.

Hopefully your son learns that some actions can’t just be forgiven with a click of the fingers. Some actions can’t be undone and people don’t forget.
Better learnt sooner rather than later.

My DD is truly furious with me and my DH and my DS. When I tried to talk to her she said the entire house revolves around him, we expect her to give in to his every whim so he doesn’t have meltdowns and she said she’s not interested in coming back to our house or seeing our DS again, no matter what physical changes (ie locks) or household changes (supervision, therapy, etc.) we implement. Our DS keeps asking about her, wanting to apologize and crying that she won’t speak to him.

Then for the time being its trying to see her outside the home somewhere neutral - just you and her and slowly build that relationship back up - and that may well take some time and some persistance on your part.

I would tell DS that she not going to be around for a while - and that's just how it is for the minute. Do not try and force a relatonship there any time soon - but focus on you and DD.

It sounds like there has been a lot of build up to this incident. I agree with PP I think you need to start by repairing your own relationship with DD, be prepared to see her on her own for now.

You say DD is upset...and then move swiftly into talking about how that is affecting DS. Can you see why she thinks everything is about him? She's 7 and half stone, and he's almost 5 stone, that's not exactly a massive size differential. She couldn't realistically have lifted him or restrained him safely. She is much better off staying with her Dad and you can carry on focusing on your son, as you have obviously been doing for quite some time.

If at 6 everything revolves around him (and you appear to accept this is true) then I have so much respect for your daughter for standing her ground.

A whole generation have been forced to-
be quiet,
think of your SN sibling before anyone else,
how stressful do you think it is for us parents,
shut up and put up...

and now hopefully young ones are standing their ground and speaking about how their own childhoods have been damaged.

The needs of the few should never subsume the needs of the others.

I have worked with SN families for many years, and it is truly heart-breaking how 99% of their lives revolve around the one with SN. It does not HAVE to be like that. No wonder your daughter and others are so resentful.

Honestly - I mean this as gently as I can - it does sound like the entire household revolves around your ds, and I don't really blame your dd for not wanting to spend time there. It isn't a safe or comfortable environment for her. I do appreciate that you've tried to suggest mitigation, like locks, supervision or therapy etc, but from her perspective, it may be too little too late. She may be wondering, for example, why you had not already implemented those things previously.

I understand that you're struggling and you just want to make things right, but I think you should give your dd some space and respect her feelings on not visiting right now. Don't pressure her, just let her know that you want to make amends, that you'll be thinking of her and that you'll be ready to talk and make adjustments if and when she changes her mind.

One thing that I would reflect back at you is that your post mentions your dd being furious but you haven't really acknowledged how hurt and upset she must be feeling right now to have got to this point. Meanwhile, you seem concerned about your ds crying and being upset that she won't speak to him. It seems that his feelings are still central to all this, while hers are just lurking somewhere in the background. I'm not saying you don't care, I just think you have probably got into the habit of centring your son and sidelining your daughter. And that's what is upsetting her.

Use this experience as a learning opportunity for your ds to help him understand that actions have consequences...if we're aggressive or violent, then people don't want to be around us. And go ahead with implementing the changes that you have identified in order to address the issues with his behaviour - not as a means of persuading your dd to come back but because your son's behaviour needs to be managed.

Let your dd decide for herself whether she wants to visit again. Maybe give her options to rebuild the relationship by asking if she would meet for a coffee somewhere neutral, without your ds in tow. The relationship can be healed over time, I'm sure, but you will first need to demonstrate that you get it, that you understand and that you are willing to do things differently.

I'd let things cool down now OP, give her the space she needs BUT maintain contact and reassure her you love her.

Don't tell her her brother is missing her and crying etc - she will probably see that for the emotional blackmail that it is. He's says he's sorry but why on earth would she believe it or that anything will change?

Why not ask if you and she can go out for a day? Just to have some quality time together without him being even mentioned?

Is there any truth in what she is saying OP? It'll be really hard for you to accept if it is but is she right? Does everything revolve around DS and his needs. Are events abandoned or cancelled or do things not happen because of his behaviour. Is she expected to watch him, let him play with her things? Most importantly I think, does your DD get time with you? Do you make time just for her? She is clearly hugely upset still - sounds like this incident really was the final straw for her. Your last line that your DS is crying and wants to see her shows quite a bit of empathy for your DS. I didn't read any empathy for your DD and you don't show any worry about her feelings either. I don't know, perhaps I'm wrong!

Look, I get it. Having a kid with (possible) ADHD is hard. They have meltdowns when overwhelmed and disregulated. But they can also manipulate things so that they get their way.

So you need to have strong boundaries. Your DD's room is out of bounds unless invited. She needs technology for learning etc and it's hers to use or lend when she wants to. He should not use his hands at all. If he does those things there will be consequences (not going to his room but loss of privileges for example). No means no so no cajoling or bad behaviour will change that.

Bedrooms are safe spaces. If he needs to cool off he can go in his room to reset but not as a punishment.

The same with her, at 16 privacy and space is incredibly important.

There is de escalation and giving in and I know from experience it's easier to give in at times.

You are the parents. You need to show love and that you are in charge. Show everyone respect and kindness. It's so hard, but believe me you need to do that now because he's just going to get bigger and stronger. And DD will be alienated more.

I was your daughter but without another house to escape to. My brother is autistic and has adhd and had a really rough time in childhood. My mum gave up work and spent what seems like most of her time supporting him - therapy and tutoring and going into school because of one thing or another. I was a pretty self contained child and didn’t ask for much but it all fell apart when I was a teenager and I did just about anything to get attention.

I’m the mother in this scenario now - one autistic child with lots of emotional needs and one self contained ‘okay’ child. But I’ve learned a lot from the experience and I ensure my son has lots of 1:1 time, that sometimes he gets to do what he wants, that he’s not dragged around to my daughter’s appointments as much as logistically possible. Etc etc.

Good for her, it seems that she is not afraid to stand up for herself, as is obvious you won[t.

Have you apologised to her? It seems that your only concern is to solve this situation quickly so your DS is not upset anymore. You do not give any validation to your DD feelings at all.

Do you think there is some truth in this, OP, re her having to cater to him to avoid meltdowns? If so you will have to accept this criticism and do some significant work to regain your daughter's trust and to ensure she feels safe in your home again.

I really feel for you. Lots of PPs have implied or stated outright that your son had it coming and will learn his lesson this way but that advice just isn't true for neurodivergent kids. When he's in meltdown the part of his brain that deals with logic, reason and consequences isn't accessible. He will regret these outbursts, as he regrets hitting your daughter now, but that is no guarantee it won't happen again, because the wiring of his brain doesn't permit for a simple, logical linking of action and consequence. He will get better at this with medication, therapy and support for his ODD and ADHD but it won't be overnight.

And in the meantime it's very hard for your daughter, who is too young to be responsible for managing your son's behaviour and shouldn't have to live in fear of setting him off. I think some time staying at her dad's might benefit her - but do try and spend lots of good quality time with her away from your house while you rebuild trust. Let her know what changes you have made and will make to ensure her safety and to give her feelings and well-being equal priority in your home and let her know the door is always open for her return. Don't push her but keep channels open.

This, not tiny bit of consideration towards the violence that DDs been under, just the upset of poor DS!
Not surprised she's staying away!

But it wasn’t a man. A 6yo boy can inflict hurt, I’d be seriously challenged if my 7yo boy wanted to fight me, and a 16yo girl is not an adult, she overreacted but he will be fine and has probably earned a valuable life lesson.

this is the first time that DH and I haven’t been around to step in within a minute and the first time she’s retaliated like this at all

One minute is a long time to be punched in the face…

I think your daughter has articulated her feelings well to you. You might benefit from family therapy so that you can begin to repair your mother /daughter relationship (best to leave your son out of it for now) even if she doesn’t move back in.

Not sure why it’s relevant that her little brother is crying and missing her- you seem very attuned to his feelings but less so to hers.

Your post yet again shows @CandidPearlWasp that your only concern for your daughter is the impact her staying away is having on yours and your son’s feelings and you want her to come back so neither of you feel bad.

She has every right to be furious with you all - this the the first time you’ve mentioned your DH. You didn’t mention what his reaction to all of this was and I suspect there’s good reason for that and for why your DD has had enough and is staying far away from you all.

At 16 to cut off your own mother is a huge thing and one that most people would need to be pushed to breaking point to consider. How else has your daughter been treated in a house the revolves around your son?

You seem to have very little care for her as an individual. If we can pick up on that when you are trying to spin a sympathetic light on you and your son, I imagine the reality of your situation is not flattering to your treatment of her at all.

If all you want from her is quiet compliance so you don’t feel bad, leave her alone.

this is the first time that DH and I haven’t been around to step in within a minute and the first time she’s retaliated like this at all

So basically, 'this isn't the first time he's violently attacked her...how dreadful of her to retaliate, she should have stayed still and let him assault her till I cajoled him not to.'

this is the first time that DH and I haven’t been around to step in within a minute and the first time she’s retaliated like this at all

So basically, 'this isn't the first time he's violently attacked her...how dreadful of her to retaliate, she should have stayed still and let him assault her till I cajoled him not to.'

Agree.

@CandidPearlWasp I feel for you, the whole household must be exhausted with the stress of managing/anticipating your son's needs. How is your relationship with DD's father? I assume he's already doing a good job of parenting - clearly your daughter feels safe with him. Maybe he could be willing to help your daughter agree to meet up with you on neutral ground. It must be a calm meeting, and without your son present. If that's a tall order then family therapy is an excellent suggestion. Even if you don't end up using therapy, suggesting it will help show your daughter that you recognise and appreciate that there is a significant rift in your relationship with her, and that you value her enough to want to repair it.

For now your son's relationship with his sister can take a back seat: you've got to repair yours first. Good luck ❤️

But this is the issue - you needed to be because this wasn’t unexpected and you had given her no tools to deal with it

DS went through a dreadful period which he has grown out of including being violent - he was never left with his sister and most importantly she was allowed boundaries with him such as not giving him her ipad

you have to give her time, not expect an apology and apologise to her

Jesus, your update makes it worse. What do you mean, you don’t know how to handle it?
PARENT YOUR DAMN FERAL SON.

Your poor poor daughter.

Does DD[s father knows that she gets regulary assaulted by your son? Because if she were my daughter I would do everything in my power to keep her away from your house.

While I know it’s not okay that he’s hurt her before, this is the first time that DH and I haven’t been around to step in within a minute

So the point at which you step in 'within a minute' is when he's actually hurting her? Not before it gets to that point?

If you had been around this time, would you have intervened to prevent him going into her room, or when she first said no to him having the ipad? Or waited until he started hitting her?