My children are badly behaved and I don’t know what to do

[magpiemagpuy]

DH and I have two children. Boys aged 6 & 8 and I feel I finally have to admit their behaviour feels beyond my parenting skills.

We’ve done our best but it seems we’ve missed a step somewhere and now they’re very difficult at times. I’m not sure if that’s parenting in general or just our children.

Individually they’re reasonably behaved (most of the time) but together it feels like we’re verging on them being feral.

I feel bad for them and myself if I’m being really honest because they’re actually living kind little boys but I can see why other parents may not see that.

They can be extremely boisterous. This morning they were hitting each other at home and name calling, this continued in the school playground with my youngest kicking my eldest.

At pickup they were being rough with another child whose parent looked understandably unimpressed. Pushing and shoving and because there are two of them they look like bullies.

They come home and eldest just doesn’t listen. Needs to be told numerous times to do anything and backchats/calls names and youngest slapped his brother so hard he left a handprint in his back.

Im at the end of my tether. Their behaviour is on their terms and we give time out and remove screen time as a punishment and make them apologise to people when they’re unkind but it doesn’t sink in. They just do not care.

Hoping not to be roasted for my offspring and could really do with some advice on how I can turn this around.

Do you tell them off tell them off. As in do you say it in a loud stern voice?

Maybe have a sit down ‘meeting’ and state how things are going to go from now on. Behaviour chart, less letting it happen. Intervene immediately xx

Not sure what the panic is about - this is really normal behaviour, especially for a boy with likely ADHD. We behaved much worse as kids but were dream teenagers/ adults.

Things that have worked really well for us:

• break from all screen time for at least a month. Not as punishment but as an opportunity for a family reset in order to introduce healthier habits and routines without competing with the lure of screens. You need to lead by example as parents which will mean no phones and being fully present during this screen time reset.

• allow them to be bored - don’t pack their day with activities but give them space to discover where their boredom takes them. This further reduces their reliance on high stimulation for dopamine- they will learn to get dopamine in more boring circumstances rather than seeking the dopamine from risky activities such as fighting whenever they’re bored. My ADHD child reads so many novels, takes interest in new skills, and develops his artistry during these extended periods of boredom.

• monitor what they are watching - the way they speak to each other is likely a direction of the shows they are watching. Be careful what they are exposed to. YouTube is the worst, but lots of Netflix kids show normalise disrespect and rudeness.

• however much activity you think they need, double it! Any day it’s not rainy, my kids are in the park for a couple hours after school. My eldest goes jogging with dad each morning before school. They need way more activity than we think. When I was a kid their age, I was able to go out on my bike after school / on the weekend with my siblings for hours at a time. This generation of kids are much less active than we were due to the need to be constantly supervised

• Each time they insult, speak rudely or name call- they need to say one positive/kind thing about that person. Catch the name calling before it happens as well- often you can spot the patterns of speech that escalate to name calling, so redirect the conversation before it gets there.

• zero tolerance on real hateful words and violence. Discuss the consequences with them in advance and be consistent with it.

• allow them at least 20-30 minutes unsupervised per day where they think you are not monitoring them. Obviously keep them within earshot but don’t impose consequences on misbehaviour that you overhear during this time (unless v serious). ADHD kids in particular crave this sense of freedom and autonomy

• remember that they are young boys testing their boundaries and finding their own relationship with each other. Yes they could be calmer, yes they could express their bond in more loving ways but at least they have a bond. They will be calmer once their environment is calmer.

I’m sure they will grow up to be wonderful boys, and the unrefined traits that currently worry you will make them a joy to be around once they learn self regulation.

1)Social services definitely wouldn't get involved for siblings fighting 🤦‍♀️

2. Taking away physical activities won't help, it will only make the situation worse

Punishing them to the point of stripping back everything they gain pleasure from will only serve to make them more frustrated and likely to behave worse.

Consequences should be relative.If they are fighting, they get split up in different rooms and have space til they are calm enough to be together again.

Identifying the triggers and getting in early to reduce the escalation before it gets to the higher levels is key where possible.

This 🤣

Would social services even have the time, money and resources to intervene with families because their little boys are being a bit rough and tumble and they won’t listen to their mum. 😭

Mumsnet is hilarious sometimes

Exactly.....unless the poster was meaning the family support service perhaps...in which case yes that might be useful.

But DEFINITELY not social services.

Teacher of 23 years: I think this is being over complicated, surely? Agreed rules in child-friendly language. Model the behaviour you are looking for and highlight. Consequences- both positive rewards and firm but fair sanctions (in line with the broken rule). Rinse and repeat. Yes to fresh air, reduced screens and vigilance about neurodiversity. You know your children and need to help them develop a sense of intrinsic reward…eventually! If you have a ND child, you will know what motivates them and what will encourage them. They may need adjustments like time out, sensory activities etc to help them regulate. It’s definitely all about consistency and never threatening anything (though maybe you have a brief warning agreement). You carry out the process to the letter, every time without fail, wherever you are.

Probably going against the grain here, but I think you’re just unlucky. My DD needed no boundaries at all, my DS constantly pushes them. If they were both boys, and like my DS, our lives would be very different and difficult. Suggestions would be to sit them down and talk to them (not in the heat of the moment) and suggest how they might talk and act more positively towards each other, and the consequence of doing this. The other, controversial option, is to lose your shit with them. I see quite a lot of parents gently calling xyz and asking him not to do something in a calm and gently voice, with it having sweet FA impact. If you’re not a shouter generally, then shout and be cross with them, scare them a little bit. Sometimes children need to see that you’re done and not taking it any more.

Years ago, kids were sent to their rooms (or jails… 🙄) and coped perfectly fine. Kids didn’t develop deep resentful feelings about their bedrooms as a result.

It’s no wonder the behaviour of modern day children is absolutely shocking given that parents seem to have an excuse or reason for not carrying out discipline.

The rise in numbers of ‘ND’ kids seems to coincide with the uselessness that is modern day parenting. Funny that.

I think people can be unrealistic about children's behaviour. The behaviour of a lot of children in the past was much more shocking in many ways, but conducted out of sight of parents and other adults. Now children are much more with adults, and so under much more scrutiny. A lot of kids are just, well, rather annoying and will grow out if it. The question is simply how much the parents put up with it in the meantime. If children are capable of behaving well at school, then that shows they have the ability to behave in situations that demand it and so I wouldn't be too concerned. If ADHD and other considerations are at play, they may well be letting off steam after masking all day. It might be useful to find them outlets for this that don't drive you round the bend.

@CrispieCake has a point. I thought about reading Just William to DD and re-read the first chapter. I didn't. I could just imagine her trying to replicate some of his behaviour.

Just William/Chapter 1 - Wikisource, the free online library https://share.google/rpfxT1OPEVVkx4RqN

Published just over 100 years ago and yes it's comic but presumably realistic enough in terms of the scrapes he gets into.

Ah but sending children to their rooms only works if they stay there.

And if you were prescient enough to search it for tech first.

We enjoyed the TV adaptation of this.

It must have been easier to deal with rumbustious children if you could just kick them out of the house to go and trespass on someone else's property and avoid getting shot by the gamekeepers. (Un)fortunately the improvement in child welfare standards nowadays means they're stuck in the house for a lot of the time, yelling insults at each other and pulling the curtains off their hooks. Amongst other things, they're just much more noticeable and in the way and that's not entirely their fault. I try to remember with my kids that, as children, they have a different agenda to mine and are programmed to "climb, explore, destroy, make noise", they just have fewer opportunities to do this without pissing someone off.

You are literally describing my kids! Two boys aged 7 and 4 with the eldest being considered for ADHD.

I use the 123 method. I bought the book and it has been brilliant. The key is almost over using it to begin with and then now I only have to hold up 1 or 2 fingers and they stop whatever it is they are doing.

I also changed our evening routine so that they each have 1:1 for 30 minutes. Youngest has 6-6.30 for bath book and bed. Then eldest has 6.30-7 for bath book and bed. This has really settled them down. We all tidy up the living room at 5.45. All TV and electronics off at 6pm.

In the mornings we have cereal and fruit and on a weekend it's toast and fruit.

They both have tablets which I regularly 'lose' the chargers to. They ask me to charge them.and I might forget for a week or 2. They are very much a treat. We have the tv on a lot but I limit things like pokemon and ninjago with all the fighting... they love operation ouch etc

I am a single parent and definitely feel they need a chat with my dad sometimes and to spend time with him doing calm but fun things. They helped him make cider the other week, crumbles, made a bird table etc I think it's role modelling that being a boy/man isn't all fighting etc

I don't let them have toy swords or nerf guns.

They play fight and have their days when I feel broken at the end and like you say embarrassed. But mostly they are fine and I can take them out without panicking they'll misbehave.

I use their bedrooms for calm down without kt being a punishment. So if they're name calling or getitng on each others nerves I'll set them up in their bedrooms doing something they enjoy but alone just to calm down a bit. I also leave them to it a lot and watch them work through whatever it is they're arguing about stepping in if needed.

It's exhausting and I really feel everything you've written. Sorry to write so much and you might be doing all of the above so not trying to be patronising. Just wanted to empathise- you're not alone.

Commiserations, OP. Just to add, what stands out to me is that you say they're OK one by one and noticeably worse when they're together.

I know somebody who was himself one of two boys and has refused to have a third child after two boys, saying that there's enough fighting between two and he doesn't want to risk a third. Sometimes boys just seem to get into these antagonistic patterns.

So perhaps you need to divide and conquer - make sure they do different things in different rooms for enough of the time, or team up with DH and give them one-on-one attention. Apart from the effects on others, you don't want them to stress each other out too much, either. Good luck!

I second this.

Are they tired? I’ve noticed my DS gets extremely boisterous when tired. This is worse when he has had to behave well for a prolonged time eg nursery / grandparents / church etc. behaviour always extremely boisterous at pick up times - exhaustion / acting out after behaving well I think it’s normal.

it’s tough- but I don’t think you’ve done much wrong. You’ve given punishments, have them doing jobs and cook home made food and monitor screen time. 😬 don’t be hard on yourself

They don’t “look” like bullies, they are bullies, to each other and to other children.

What’s the father’s opinion?

I would suggest you go to parenting classes. It's not a sign of failure but you definitely need help.
You have to have an authoritive voice as children pick up on your weakness.
Find out about those classes as you will have a job on your hands when they turn teenagers.

I was going to say that: rewards and praise.

they need responsibilities and asap and you need a list of what are the natural consequences are for their actions.

They aren’t lost but you need to up your game and actually make them feel more secure so they don’t lash out that much.

Good luck 👌🏻

Just a few pointers that you might find helpful ( I used to work as a behaviour support assistant in primary)
Make sure you catch them being good. Positive praise whenever they are behaving well. Not just when they are misbehaving.

Be consistent, make sure you stick to your guns and deliver the same message as your DH.

Remember all children need boundaries. If they don’t have them they will push things until they find it.

If you can find some old “Supernanny” programmes on TV they are worth a watch too.

Good luck and stay strong

my boys are 6 and 3, sweetest boys ever but every single time we are in public they are so naughty! I used to say they are distressed as they as both diagnosed with autism , but now I’ve started to realise they also are very naughty and cheeky at times and I no longer blame their difficulties 😂but very rarely in public do others witness the super sweet caring side so it’s tiring but I love them and I wouldn’t change them for the world they are sooo funny and although they fight they love one another two seconds later it’s so nice to see (but very draining😂😂)💕

The perfect parents are out in full force 🙄🙄