My children are badly behaved and I don’t know what to do

[magpiemagpuy]

DH and I have two children. Boys aged 6 & 8 and I feel I finally have to admit their behaviour feels beyond my parenting skills.

We’ve done our best but it seems we’ve missed a step somewhere and now they’re very difficult at times. I’m not sure if that’s parenting in general or just our children.

Individually they’re reasonably behaved (most of the time) but together it feels like we’re verging on them being feral.

I feel bad for them and myself if I’m being really honest because they’re actually living kind little boys but I can see why other parents may not see that.

They can be extremely boisterous. This morning they were hitting each other at home and name calling, this continued in the school playground with my youngest kicking my eldest.

At pickup they were being rough with another child whose parent looked understandably unimpressed. Pushing and shoving and because there are two of them they look like bullies.

They come home and eldest just doesn’t listen. Needs to be told numerous times to do anything and backchats/calls names and youngest slapped his brother so hard he left a handprint in his back.

Im at the end of my tether. Their behaviour is on their terms and we give time out and remove screen time as a punishment and make them apologise to people when they’re unkind but it doesn’t sink in. They just do not care.

Hoping not to be roasted for my offspring and could really do with some advice on how I can turn this around.

put them to bed super super early. If they act like toddlers they must be treated like one

Remember, children are not the finished article at this point. They're still learning. Your response to their behaviour is what matters here. Stay consistent and you're on the right path.
I have 7 year old twins and they can be diabolical to each other and to us (sometimes) but then wonderful caring sweet boys at other times so I don't feel all is lost. They also need a ton of exercise to stay calm! Please don't despair. The fact that you care is really important here. X

I also thought:

• more exercise - structured activities and sports / groups that are non negotiable, they must go each week, and not to the same group together- two different groups.
• zero screens. Screens are earnt only.
• zero tolerance for physical violence - hitting kicking etc. Early to bed, deduct pocket money.

I also wondered if they are being grouped together too much. They are two separate people- my brothers were this close in age and were forever lumped together. It made them ultra ultra competitive against each other and it’s carried on ever since. It was easy for my parents to do XYZ with ‘the boys’ but actually it’s not helped the boys much to be honest. So I wondered how much individuality there is room for in your day to day lives.

I expect this is fairly typical of two boys at this age who spend a lot of time together doing the same things; probably also a bit personality driven but you really need to make some changes- the physicality hitting shoving kicking etc is really not ok and definitely a red line to involve other peoples’ kids!! You say it ‘looks like’ bullying - it is bullying.

Once you’ve toughened up the punishments etc I would try and think of ways you can help them to become real friends.

best of luck to you xxx

Do they get enough sleep, like 10-12 hours every night? Mine used to get more hyped up the tireder she was and her dad never could see that it was exhaustion rather than needing more input/stimulation.

Remember, children are not the finished article at this point. They're still learning. Your response to their behaviour is what matters here. Stay consistent and you're on the right path.
I have 7 year old twins and they can be diabolical to each other and to us (sometimes) but then wonderful caring sweet boys at other times so I don't feel all is lost. They also need a ton of exercise to stay calm! Please don't despair. The fact that you care is really important here. X

As a pp said martial arts might help them, as self discipline is one of the things taught to new starters and especially children.

They sound like they need a better outlet for their energy.

I had two brothers and they needed to do a lot of sport and exercise.

I also think some play fighting is normal between brothers.

Get yourself onto a parenting course like the Solihull approach for example!

Just to add my two nephews were a lot like yours at this age. I have to say I used to watch them horrified, rolling around wrestling each other. They are now in late teens and absolutely lovely young men. Gentle, polite and the best of friends! Hang in there.

I agree with this we did a parenting course through our school as we had some very challenging behaviour from one of our sons. Things are a lot better now but I'm not going to pretend they are perfect. Kids need special time with their parents one on one. If you aren't giving them that daily and at the same time praising them when they are behaving well, then the default way to get your attention is by misbehaving.
Wishing you luck OP. I know it isn't easy. I also recommend a book called 'siblings without rivalry'.

Can you separate them more? So DH takes one out and you take the other and then they both get some individual attention from you and building up your relationship/connection and they get a break from each other. Mine are similar ages and eldest is autistic and I can have similar in them getting angry with each other if they have spent too much time together/are very tired and hungry. Especially for my autistic one the very strict approach doesn't work well as he gets very rigid in his thinking about it and doesn't really learn anything from the consequences especially if presented as a punishment rather than there being a natural consequence next time. Staying super calm with them works far better

It sounds like the fundamentals are good - so don’t worry too much about that. Your kids will turn out fine. My DS has ADHD and ASD and I personally found that 8 was the most difficult age. Believe me, my son was much worse than how you have described but his is 19 now and is a sweetheart. He is polite, greets elders, does chores at home and is hardworking but still has his characteristic impish grin. I have had people come up to me, expressing their amazement, astounded how far he has come because he really was a horror child back then.

I tried a lot of parenting programs and the one that really worked for my son at that age was 1-2-3 Magic. I think it worked because it wasn’t wordy and it cut through - which is important for kids with ADHD. It also allowed for early intervention before the crime is committed and teaches self regulation for both child and parent. Parental regulation is absolutely critical.

Also starting from when he was about 11, he had regular sessions with a psychologist, who taught him personal management strategies. He really connected with her and I could see a massive difference. I don’t think it would have been useful when he was younger as he would have struggled more with the concepts - for example writing a diary would have been beyond him.

Ask school for advice.
They can refer to support and maybe have a home visit

Let me introduce you to these things called contraceptives!

As well as exercise, for what it's worth a few ideas below:

I've found that a really quite rigid routine is surprisingly helpful, as are visuals.

I questioned whether some of my mini routines, with visual cues on the wall were a bit sergeant major when I started (I now see they were very mild!) and it surprised me that my children actually really like them. To the point I'm considering making or weekends a bit more structured, too, with slots for various types of activities (I actually like that too as it takes some mental load off!)

I wonder if a visual rules and behaviour chart might start to get the message across in a different format. I'd game them in the language of what you want rather than what you don't (psychology, innit!), e.g. "only kind hands"; "listening the first time mum or dad speak to you", "only nice names for people".

I've also found that setting them up for success means a briefing before leaving the house about how a surpassing is going to go and the basics of what's expected (again, framed as "do this" not "don't do that").

And as others have said, catch them in good behavior and give lots of attention to it; good behaviour earns treats rather than bad behaviour having it taken away, and any bad behaviour receives minimal attention, a removal of engagement and a simple direction to the rules and physical redirect/removal from the situation if necessary.

Also watch the way you and their dad interact and behave towards each other and the boys. Being a bit over the top kind and gentle to each other to model what you're after will go in far better than admonishments.

If some of this sounds familiar is because it's very similar to puppy training! Not because your children are animals(!) but because most communication and most effective drivers for behavioural change are non-verbal.

As you've found, you can talk until you're blue in the face and it's unlikely to go in! I'm certainly not pushing from my perfect perch, by the way, but I try to return to these things when I feel us noticably slipping and they help.

I've nothing to add op that hasn't been mentioned but just wanted to say "chin up!" And don't be too hard on yourself.

DC can be hard work and it sounds as though you are doing lots of good things in the mix, and you are clearly looking to try to resolve the rest, which is the place to start.

Parenting can be tough and not all dc are the same. It takes a bit of trial and error with each one as they come along.

This. There may be other things at play, possibly, but siblings have rough-housed with each other since the beginning of time (and certainly before screens were invented). And if all that was needed was tougher discipline, it's amazing that parents in the past, when brutal corporal punishment was commonplace, were unable to sort this out.

Zero tolerance for name calling and hitting.

You sound like a caring and committed parent, doing a grand job.

Your boys are so close in age that there may not be an obvious top dog. If they are constantly vying for the top spot that is usually conferred by superior age and size, there will be competition, shouting and hitting.

They do the same household activites, attend the same school and do the same sports as each other, so there will be comparison and competition there too, so maybe keep an eye out to see if this is a trigger for poor behaviour between them.

It would be interesting to know if they get along fine when it's just the two of them playing, or watching telly without parental approbation affecting the way they see themselves and each other.

So in a nutshell, try to minimise comparison and competition.

Have you spoken to the school? Their teachers might have some tips as they know them.

Could they become involved in actual clubs, Scouts maybe? I think they need more time outside, do you have a garden?

Have you got a skate park near you? They're amazing around here and kids spend hours burning off energy.

I am also a vote for just total removal of screens.

I think you've still got time to turn this around! Be strong and determined! Say what you mean and mean what you say.

I feel you! Yes kids do need consequences to a certain extent, and need to realise that physically hurting someone is wrong.However punishments won't reduce their anger and stop it happening again.It's about looking at the triggers and trying to reduce them and model ways of positive interaction they can use with each other, mediating between them during disagreements.

However (as hard as it is!) I also find that reminding myself to try and 'empathise and compromise' works well in many situatuons, as often they just need to feel heard and to have their feelings and opinions validated.

Eg; earlier on, DH was trying to get DD8 to brush her teeth and she was protesting.He was using quite a disciplinarian approach....threatening consequences, firmly counting down from 10 etc (which don't get me wrong I can also do by default when angry!) But as at that point i was feeling calm, i stepped in to ask DD calmly what was the matter, asking her to talk to me,and she explained that she felt embarrassed being watched having her teeth brushed.I explained that we need to watch her as if we didn't check they were brushed properly, she might get dental problems (she won't do it properly if we don't check, we have tried before) but she protested saying she didn't like it.I asked her what her solution might be to the problem, reasoning that we couldn't not watch her but maybe there was a way it might feel easier for her.She said she could keep her mouth closed more, which we agreed on, and she went off to brush her teeth fine with DH.
She has ASD, which probably makes it all more amplified, but with some kids, 'little things' can be big things and they need to get them resolved before they can follow an iinstruction or listen to reason.

I also had 2 older brothers and the fights were insane, I was involved also and we used to do wwf on the sofa tagging in and out. Rough behaviour is pretty normal I think for some boys. Although rough behaviour towards other children is obviously not acceptable so yeah get on that as you have rightly said you are. I would also look at the school and what is going on in the school day and how your kids feel about school. If they don’t like it or struggle then behaviours will shine through

You've been told how to stop their behaviour. No screen time. No TV. No football or cricket or swimming. These are for good children who behave not the ones who have to learn to walk properly, not hit people, not hit their brother, not give backchat to their parents. It's hard. It will be Hell on earth, I should think, but you got there by not stopping this when they first started it.

Forgot to add, we also have a marble jar to help praise good behaviour (especially kindness, thoughtfulness and helpfulness) once the jar is full they get a treat.I don't give a marble every time as want them to do good deeds for the right reasons not just to 'get something' but it does help give them some positive recognition.

Doesn't have to be non stop entertainment though. Have a 3 year old dgs and he needs a minimum of 4 hours exercise each day else he's a horror. Thank heavens for trampoline and slide in garden