My children are badly behaved and I don’t know what to do

[magpiemagpuy]

DH and I have two children. Boys aged 6 & 8 and I feel I finally have to admit their behaviour feels beyond my parenting skills.

We’ve done our best but it seems we’ve missed a step somewhere and now they’re very difficult at times. I’m not sure if that’s parenting in general or just our children.

Individually they’re reasonably behaved (most of the time) but together it feels like we’re verging on them being feral.

I feel bad for them and myself if I’m being really honest because they’re actually living kind little boys but I can see why other parents may not see that.

They can be extremely boisterous. This morning they were hitting each other at home and name calling, this continued in the school playground with my youngest kicking my eldest.

At pickup they were being rough with another child whose parent looked understandably unimpressed. Pushing and shoving and because there are two of them they look like bullies.

They come home and eldest just doesn’t listen. Needs to be told numerous times to do anything and backchats/calls names and youngest slapped his brother so hard he left a handprint in his back.

Im at the end of my tether. Their behaviour is on their terms and we give time out and remove screen time as a punishment and make them apologise to people when they’re unkind but it doesn’t sink in. They just do not care.

Hoping not to be roasted for my offspring and could really do with some advice on how I can turn this around.

If your child doesn’t run around and is quiet and well behaved, don’t think it is because of your incredible parenting. You just have a child who is naturally quiet and well behaved

Have you ever read 1 2 3 Magic?

It's a bit unfashionable right now, because timeouts are not "in" and parenting is currently very about discussions of why things are wrong/natural consequences. But I think its exactly what you need - your boys sound intelligent, but "untrained" Iyswim.

You should read the whole book. But fundamentally the principle is very simple. It gives them a tiny bit of warning time but very calmly makes it clear their behaviour won't be tolerated. You say "that's 1" wait a moment. "That's 2". You stay very calm and don't rush, but if you get to 3 that's a 5 minute timeout (preferably not in the bedroom or anywhere fun, but it depends what space you've got available).

The book explains all the details of what to do when they don't cooperate with it, what you can expect (they get worse the first day or two! ) how to do it in public, in the car etc.

Seriously, give it a read.

Also massively cut back on any screen time. As much fresh air and activity as humanly possible. Get them tired.

What happens when it gets to 4 hours or 5 hours. Then you want/need to go out and they refused to come out of their room because they are fulfilling their punishment.

This is absolutely spot on. DS has adhd and the consultant said pretty much this, that he gets a dopamine hit from being physical and hitting his sister, also from her reacting, and from us reacting. Negative reactions give that dopamine hit, not just positive.

Saying that, you have to reward the positive and also reward when you see them resist an impulse. It takes time, consistency and asking for support.

remove screens completely, and remove sugar…. I bet you things start to improve

They are most likely ND and any NT punishment will not have any effect on their behaviour

I would start with clear expectations about how to behave and tell them clearly and firmly. A visual works well - house rules up on a poster so you can point to it if they forget. Emphasise what you expect every time you go somewhere (until it becomes engrained!)

No iPads or online games. Make sure any TV is not overly stimulating and encourage fighting e.g no power rangers!

No sweets or overly sugary food except very rarely as a treat.

Plenty of fresh air and walks outside. But also encourage them to have responsibility. They need to be doing chores around the house and helping out with things like washing the car, simple DIY. They aren’t babies and should be part of the daily running of the house. Tell them they are expected to be big boys and help out sensibly. Explain consequences if they were messing around play fighting when doing grown up jobs!

Any time they ARE behaving nicely to their brother pick up on it “That was so kind! You’re a really good big brother!”

Clear hierarchy so oldest feels he is the ‘oldest’ - for example he could stay up 15 mins later because he’s older. Encourage gentleness to little brother. Also encourage little brother to be kind “like an older boy would be.”

If any unkind fighting happens break it up and separate. Too an extent brothers tend to roll around and play fight but there shouldn’t be any painful hitting or kicking involved. If it goes too far or getting too silly you break it up and remind them of the rules.

Anything like that slap you mentioned is a complete removal from the situation. Lots of attention on the other brother. No need to shout but be absolutely clear that it is not acceptable.

Men figures in their lives need to be modelling kind behaviour and also really emphasising these points.

Exercise then like puppies. Your husband needs to step up. Boys need men to focus on parenting that is consistent and very firm oth clear boundaries. Disciple is key. What chores are they doing ? Clean your room. Put clothes away. Wash the floor
Hoover the stairs. Dig a vegetable patch. Teach the dog a trick. Honestly they won't have time to think to back slap or hit. PT like press ups, jumping jacks, sit ups and do then together as a punishment for bad behaviour. Take away everything they find pleasurable until they can earn it back. Swift intervention. Within five years they will be bigger and taller than you. Now is the time to put an end to them controlling the household. And stress levels! Don't be soft on them it's a disease.

Hi op. Homemade is definitely better than shop-bought but it still sounds like they are having sugar everyday. I’d suggest that you ease them off of it. A sugary dessert is not necessary on the daily. Also ease off any refined carbs.

OP….how much time do you and DH have on screens? Parents being constantly glued to phones is so bad for kids development not just kids being on them (not saying you are btw).

They are still very young. You have time to salvage this!

At their ages a star chart should still work. Ask them what they would love as special, special treat and work from there.

They can earn a star by going a whole morning/afternoon/day without name calling or slapping or what ever behaviour you want to discourage. Award surprise bonus stars when they show positive behaviour (kindness, tidiness, whatever ) 'what you did (describe) was so great I'm giving you an extra star. I'm so proud of you. Well done"

Keep it achievable and realistic so they stay enthusiastic and motivated. A good day might warrant a tiny treat. A good week might earn a bigger one, a takeaway or video night. Several good weeks on the trot earns them the big prize. For my DC it would have been a trip to Alton Towers but it's different for every child.

Always accentuate and celebrate the positives, mourn the negatives 'It's so sad you did that, now you don't get your star' and then move on.

Make sure you and your partner are consistent and united and you will crack this.

For a period of time this year, I had no TV as it got broken. My children can display difficult behavior too, and I can tell you there was a massive improvement in behavior when screen time wasn't even an option. It does something to their brains!

A NT child might not like you shouting at them and will be bored sitting alone in their room with nothing to do and then decide they need to behave because they don’t like the boredom

A child with ADHD won’t notice to the same effect your shouting as it’s just another noise in their already noisy brain.
They won’t be bored in their room. There is so much going on in their brain that they will be thinking about all sorts of things like how to get on the roof of the house or what is under the carpet in the bedroom or what happens if you unravel a knitted jumper. How many balls of wool can you get.

I would say if you don’t have a child withADHD/ASD then what works on your NT is only good advice to other parents with NT children.

I wish people would stop citing this rubbish. As an ND person myself, normal punishments were doled out by my parents and they worked.
Too many people use ND as an excuse for not giving proper consequences because “it doesn’t work for ND kids”. Actually, it can work perfectly fine for ND kids and years ago, before many kids got a diagnosis, normal punishments worked out fine for the majority.

This is yet another way that people have been brainwashed into thinking that all ND kids can’t cope with anything deemed ‘typical’. The majority actually can. Society has created this problem of treating ND kids like they might break. As a result, ND kids become more challenging because nobody will parent them, because the go to is always “oh you can’t tell him no as he’s ND” or “you can’t tell her off because she’s autistic”

We didn’t have a tv for years and definitely no iPads etc
It didn’t make any difference to their behaviour.

Why would it? They have ADHD which has been around since before TVs were thought of

I am also ND and I just ignored what ever punishment I was given. It just came with the territory of not liking how I behaved

These NT punishments meant nothing

Not saying that there are no consequences to bad behaviour but the type of NT punishments mean very little to someone with ADHD.

I had the cane more times than I can recall. Apparently hitting my open palm with a stick was supposed to make me behave.
It didn’t. It meant nothing to me. Just something to do. Plus point was I got to wander around the school whilst everyone was in lessons.

If the older one is indeed ND then parenting is a while world different to NT kids. Work that out and go from there. Don’t be hard on yourself if kid is ND, parenting is definitely different though and nuts!!

Do you have rewards for when their behaviour is good to go along with the consequences for when it’s bad?

Just focusing on punishments doesn’t work in my experience (speaking as both a mum and a teacher). Positive reinforcement is by far the most powerful tool in behaviour management. It needs to be in conjunction with clear boundaries and expectations of course but making a nice fuss of the behaviour you want to see can work wonders.

Apologies if you’re doing these things already but have you tried things like star charts? Verbal praise when you see the behaviour you want? Other rewards that would appeal to them like going to the park etc?

Taking away screen time as a consequence is obvs fine but I wouldn’t use screen time as a reward unless they’re very good at handing the iPads back when asked - otherwise you risk a reward turning into a battle.

You can teach them strategies to intervene in their own behaviour, recognise when they need to act, and redirect to stop themselves escalating. Use some actual, recent scenarios. Ask them what they think they could have done differently.

Must be very helpful for the OP to hear how someone just told their child once with meaning and they never did it again, or that it's too late for her to bring it back now!!

Fwiw I think you sound like you're working really hard with them - some kids just take more active parenting than others! I have children around the same ages as yours, and sometimes they're delightful, sometimes monsters. Mine also don't seem to have a 'currency' that I can offer/take away as a behaviour bribe.

What works for me:

They don't have iPads or tablets, TV is something we watch as a family

Big filling but reasonably healthy breakfast (porridge with greek yoghurt, eggs)

Lots of exercise

Explaining behaviour expectations before I go somewhere

When I notice bad behaviour:

Too much time without our attention

When I (which is very understandable!) focus on the bad behaviours and forget to notice/praise the good

Too much sugar/junk food

• Do they walk/cycle to school?
• Do they get an hour outside in natural light every day as often as possible?
• What’s their diet like?
• Do they do hobbies that channel their energy like swimming, martial arts etc?
• Do they get time apart to play in their own rooms (if they have own rooms)?
• Do they earn positive rewards for good behaviour eg screen time?
• Do they have positive male role models?

I know all kids are different, but this is what works for us.

My sil removed all ipads/phone access completely. Also no YouTube . Or similar. And that worked wonders .

Hey OP
I've read your updates and wondered if a 'Family Rules' would work? You've got something to all refer to then, and clear boundaries.

You could even get a copy of the school or classroom's rules list and use that so it'll be familiar to them.

Have a family talk, all agree what each one looks like e.g being kind means no name calling.

Also have a clear agreement with DH about sanctions, even write those up to so when you're feeling frazzled you can have something to refer to.

I'd personally stop the pocket money in exchange for chores - they are part of the household and shouldn't get a reward for doing basic things. I'd also massively lessen it, that's £20 each a month!

You've ruled out the obvious things then - exercise and being outdoors, food and drink. You're also already going through process of ADHD diagnosis with your eldest. Hats off to you for acknowledging you want things to change, and coming on here and asking for help. 6 and 8 is still young, ignore the PPs saying it's too late to change etc. It sounds like the book recommendations and specialist parenting advice are the way to go. Good luck!

Just to add - having the family rules displayed somewhere means you can point to them when it feels like behaviour is escalating..."are we headed here? Is this part of our rules?" And it could contribute to lessening the behaviours or interrupting them.

Consistency and strong implementation are key though.