Help- don’t know how to deal with 10 yo DD behaviour

[Diddlypop]

Hi,

I’m looking for advice about my DD behaviour and how to tackle it. Please be kind, this keeps me up at night and I’m so worried, and apologies for the length.

My DD is highly intelligent (reading age of 13 at age 6, flies through maths, can do complex Lego in a couple of hours etc) and her school thinks she is wonderful. They’ve described her as bubbly, helpful, and kind but we’re having a lot of problems at home and have been since she was 2.

She tends to fly in to uncontrollable rages, screams, throws things, attacks us (me usually) and she’s increasingly not doing anything she’s told to do. For example if she’s told to go upstairs and get ready for bed you can guarantee she’s not doing it despite promises to. I have to go up after 10-15 minutes whereby she’ll quickly scoot in to her room and start but I have to keep checking. If you tell her to tidy her room she’ll barely do any of it. I won’t go in to the long history of events but they include destroying her room because we told her we were all going on holiday, attacking me on holiday because I insisted she brush her teeth, breaking doors through slamming them, throwing a full pot of e45 cream on a carpet in a rage etc.

I told her and her younger sister to help me fold washing the other week and she was balling her fists and flinging it about. I got fed up and sent her to her room to calm down but she was screaming and throwing things for about an hour before eventually she calmed down (whereby I had her fold and put away the rest of the washing).

She occasionally is incredibly helpful but it’s rare. She can also be very loving and caring if her sister but then really mean to her as well.

She goes through fads of defiance such as refusing to brush her teeth (the toothpaste is too strong, brushing hurts etc), it’s a huge drama and then suddenly it’s not a problem anymore and she enjoys it. Currently she’s not changing her underwear daily. I caught this by chance and now I’m finding I have to check every day. She’s 10 and I can’t see this is normal, is it?

My parents think she’s attention seeking from what they’ve seen (and also a bit lazy) as this all started after her sister arrived when she was 2. Trying to get to the bottom of it I calmly observed her yesterday, didn’t get angry when she acted badly. There were 8 times she kicked off or got upset!

Not going through all of them, her sister wouldn’t let her play with her toy. This resulted in DD getting upset and asking me to make her. I said no as her it belongs to her sister and she’d only just started playing with it. She loudly cried in her room and ranted about it, but when her sister gave her the toy 10 minutes later she didn’t want it, was back to normal like nothing happened.

We were hanging pictures in her room but it was a mess so I told her we’d do it after she’d made her bed. She did a half arsed job hiding blankets under her duvet. I told her to do it properly and she flew in to a crying, ranting rage. Trying not to get annoyed we carried on with other jobs but she gets louder to try to get us to go to her (if we did she’d get even louder or prolong it from experience) and when that didn’t work she came out and did it on the landing near us. It’s hardly ever real crying and she eventually calmed down and made

At other points in the day she would sit near me looking sad but wouldn’t tell me what was wrong. Like switch had been flicked she’s suddenly back normal like nothing had happened.

She tends to mess about at bed time (it’s been worse recently) and will secretly read after being told to go to sleep. We spend our evenings going up to check because we’ve caught her reading until midnight in the past. She’s taken torches, head lamps, toys that light up, anything she can get her hands on so she can secretly read. I check her bed and drawers but she then sneaks out to find something or cracks her door to let light in. When we talk to her she’s very sorry and will “definitely go to sleep” but you can guarantee that 10 minutes later you’ll find her door open again.

We’ve tried letting her stay up an extra half an hour to read on the understanding that she then goes straight to sleep but she never does.

Tiredness could be a factor but even when she’s slept she’s like this.

Behaviour is worse in the mornings and evenings. Clothes and the feeling of clothes is usually a problem. She won’t get uniform on with someone standing over her. You’ll instead catch her reading or playing but often loud games, she’s trying to tell us she’s not doing as she’s told which again leads us to the attention seeking.

I would say I’m strict, there are always consequences and I can get cross, but I’ve also tried be patient, ignoring it, talking to her, trying to understand. I’ve run out of ideas.

When we get cross I find her reaction is odd. Her sister would look guilty and sorry or upset but DD10 gets angry even when she’s done something really bad and she knows it. The angrier we are the angrier she is. She can be quite cutting with the things she says when this going on.

We’ve considered whether this is autism (there are other small indicators such as emotions or reactions often seem staged like it’s something she’s seen and is trying out, lack of empathy, the intelligence, extreme emotions (very angry or very sad, extreme excitement) that often seem misplaced.) She went through a short stage out of the blue at 18 months of banging her head on the cot in the middle of the night when she woke up. She’s always needs to be constantly stimulated with activities. Her cousin has autism (non verbal).

I’ve also considered whether she wants more attention from me so I’m trying to do more 1:1 with both children. Following one afternoon with her last week she kicked off again so it’s not working yet.

For people looking in she’s articulate, intelligent, great at making friends, well behaved etc, but we’re struggling at home. Any advice?

@InWalksBarberalla I’ve tried to get an answer multiple times but all we really get is that she doesn’t know. She understands that it’s not right but just seems to have a lot of frustration plus a drive to only ever do half a job.

Injustice regarding her sister come sup a lot whether this is a real trigger (her sister has something she hasn’t, won’t share, won’t play with her or do what she wants her to do) to perceived injustice. They had a giddy half hour in the garden after dinner tonight and had a fantastic time playing together which ended with DD10
purposefully hurting DD7 out of nowhere. I saw it happen and heard the scream and then DD10 curled her lip at her and told her it was her fault. I reminded her that she should apologise and check she was OK even if it’s an accident, which she did but then got stroppy. There was no reason for it at all and makes her sister wary of her.

@Diddlypop its sounds a bit like she doesn't take responsibility for her behaviour and isn't very self reflective even though she is mature in other ways?

If she knows certain behaviours aren't right - what are her solutions to them not happening again? Ie if she knows her sister is a trigger how can she find a way to walk away before she gets to the point of hurting her sister?

@Pleaseshutthefuckup

I also don’t want to hijack this thread and make it about my family - please tell me OP @Diddlypop if you’d rather I didn’t comment.

Yes that article is referring to that book, but there are other - perhaps more qualified professionals - discussing over diagnosis/misdiagnosis too.

And similarly I was relying on a qualified professional who nearly diagnosed my son before I insisted on the ADOS screening. I completely agree - it was unprofessional what she attempted to do. However, she also said she had discussed my son’s case with her colleagues/managers.
She felt she had enough evidence to diagnose.
My first appointment with her - she told me she was new to paediatrics. Prior to that I’d had to wait almost 8 months for an appt, because the first paediatrician I’d seen had left.
My hunch is that the demand on services is extremely high, they are woefully understaffed, they are trying to employ whoever they can, and they are trying to reduce demand on resources (such as the long wait times for ADOS screening).
In my appointment, she alluded to the fact that she had discussed my son’s case with her managers and it was decided that they could diagnose without the screening.

I complained, 6 months later this paediatrician also left - he had the screening, I insisted on an experienced paediatrician - who didn’t diagnose.
Potentially diagnosing my son incorrectly, and how easily this could have happened - really scares me. It is a life long diagnosis.

We - as adults decide on these names, labels, diagnosis - they are adult defined terms that we hopefully use to benefit the lives of others.
In my son’s case - a poorly written EHCP written by a caseworker who had never met my child, me (as a novice) not challenging the wording (it was written as if he was a high needs Autistic child struggling with behaviour, turn taking, other stereotypical ASD stigmas) - almost led to him not having a reception school place. In fact he was rejected until I fought.
He is now thriving and gets targeted support for his speech.

I would love everyone to get great support for their individual needs - whatever they may be and whatever label is given to these needs (I know that the term Asperger’s is now ‘out of fashion’).

But my thoughts are that ASD/ADHD etc are often based on subjective criteria, ‘fashion’ (such as Asperger’s), an extremely broad criteria (which even an NHS paediatrician didn’t fully understand in my son’s case, private clinics (run for profit), schools who can’t cope, an EHCP crisis, no money to fund, dogmatic attitudes and attempts to shut down objections (I would have thought bred out of fear). I’ve seen parents afraid to even try a new food with their child, constantly giving a screen to ‘decompress’, never challenging behaviour and completely burnt out from trying to appease their child because they have a diagnosis - whilst coping with a full time career.

Globally, we have one of the highest rates of ASD/ADHD diagnosis, yet it’s still thought that we underdiagnose? If we continue to diagnose at the rate we are going, how do we fund and resource that?
France have a low rate of diagnosis. Why is that? Could it be that there is something about their school system/environment that is better? Is ‘under diagnosis’ there causing significant problems?

@InWalksBarberalla when she has the big episodes she is reflective, apologetic and then pulls out all the stops to be good and helpful, pleasant with everyone. For the day to day smaller incidences, no, she doesn’t take responsibility. She can do something she absolutely knows is wrong and then get angry at everyone else, ranting about how we don’t love her, we prefer her sister, how it was all her sister’s fault (even when her sister isn’t involved).
I’m trying to spend more 1:1 time with her to see if this feeling of being second best is real and can be improved but I spent the whole day with her on Saturday doing nice things and the next day we still had this so no progress so far.

Re: sensory issues only lasting for episodes of a few weeks, what we have found with our dc is that sensory stuff can be much worse at times (tallying with periods of greater stress / anxiety / less sleep etc). I have always thought about it as the amygdala (in the brain) having a reduced bandwidth, and not being able to cope with so many different things at once, and I think if a child is stressed or anxious, or unwell, or not sleeping well then I think this reduces the bandwidth more, and some ‘super-sensitivities’ can come out. Occasionally I get super-sensitive to labels in clothing on the back of my neck - it is so weird that when I am wearing it, it will feel like razor wire, (and I imagine that there is blood running down my back, as it is so sharp / painful) then I take it off and feel what is on the label, and it is soft and silky. It is so so strange. And this does not happen all the time, only very occasionally (probably when I am more stressed etc).

Absolute rubbish. It’s extremely normal for autistic children to be rule followers in the school environment and deal with their overwhelming emotions in the safety of their home. It’s called the pop bottle effect. If you are working with autistic children you really should be aware of these things.

I feel so so much for this little girl. She’s trying so hard.

My girl is exactly like this. Will tantrum right outside the school gate and then walks in perfectly happy and cheery.

She tells me she behaves this way because I don’t give her what she wants. 🙄

School don’t believe me either. I have tried to tell them that she works very hard to make sure she is seen in the best light. Like she wants everyone outside of our house to think she’s amazing. It’s odd. She gets heaps of praise at home.

@FizzySherbet we’ve seen an enormous turnaround in DD behaviour in the last 3 weeks. I don’t know what the cause is exactly but the house is a lot calmer and her teacher commented that she seems very bubbly and happy at school.
I’ve spent some extra time with her but nothing excessive, school also give her 30 minutes at the end of the day with a chosen friend to do something fun (games on the computer, art etc.) this has helped her bond with some of the girls at school and she’s a lot happier. She has been getting dressed in the morning and ready for bed with no issues. She’s been lovely towards her sister, no issues with clothes, teeth brushing etc and if she has had a bit of a tantrum it’s very low level and she quickly snaps out of it.
If she does something wrong (doesn’t do something she’s asked to do etc) when reminded she apologises and gets it done quickly.
She feeds on the feelings around her and I’ve had something stressful happen recently but she was fine. I haven’t shared it with her but she walked on on me a bit upset. She checked I was ok and has been really good.

Can you share that magic pill 😆 fingers crossed this continues for me. Gives me hope that there might be light in 4 years!

I'm very glad to hear things are going so much better now!

I'm so pleased to see your update OP, keeping everything crossed for you that she's come through whatever it was!