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Help- don’t know how to deal with 10 yo DD behaviour

188 replies

Diddlypop · 02/06/2025 07:41

Hi,

I’m looking for advice about my DD behaviour and how to tackle it. Please be kind, this keeps me up at night and I’m so worried, and apologies for the length.

My DD is highly intelligent (reading age of 13 at age 6, flies through maths, can do complex Lego in a couple of hours etc) and her school thinks she is wonderful. They’ve described her as bubbly, helpful, and kind but we’re having a lot of problems at home and have been since she was 2.

She tends to fly in to uncontrollable rages, screams, throws things, attacks us (me usually) and she’s increasingly not doing anything she’s told to do. For example if she’s told to go upstairs and get ready for bed you can guarantee she’s not doing it despite promises to. I have to go up after 10-15 minutes whereby she’ll quickly scoot in to her room and start but I have to keep checking. If you tell her to tidy her room she’ll barely do any of it. I won’t go in to the long history of events but they include destroying her room because we told her we were all going on holiday, attacking me on holiday because I insisted she brush her teeth, breaking doors through slamming them, throwing a full pot of e45 cream on a carpet in a rage etc.

I told her and her younger sister to help me fold washing the other week and she was balling her fists and flinging it about. I got fed up and sent her to her room to calm down but she was screaming and throwing things for about an hour before eventually she calmed down (whereby I had her fold and put away the rest of the washing).

She occasionally is incredibly helpful but it’s rare. She can also be very loving and caring if her sister but then really mean to her as well.

She goes through fads of defiance such as refusing to brush her teeth (the toothpaste is too strong, brushing hurts etc), it’s a huge drama and then suddenly it’s not a problem anymore and she enjoys it. Currently she’s not changing her underwear daily. I caught this by chance and now I’m finding I have to check every day. She’s 10 and I can’t see this is normal, is it?

My parents think she’s attention seeking from what they’ve seen (and also a bit lazy) as this all started after her sister arrived when she was 2. Trying to get to the bottom of it I calmly observed her yesterday, didn’t get angry when she acted badly. There were 8 times she kicked off or got upset!

Not going through all of them, her sister wouldn’t let her play with her toy. This resulted in DD getting upset and asking me to make her. I said no as her it belongs to her sister and she’d only just started playing with it. She loudly cried in her room and ranted about it, but when her sister gave her the toy 10 minutes later she didn’t want it, was back to normal like nothing happened.

We were hanging pictures in her room but it was a mess so I told her we’d do it after she’d made her bed. She did a half arsed job hiding blankets under her duvet. I told her to do it properly and she flew in to a crying, ranting rage. Trying not to get annoyed we carried on with other jobs but she gets louder to try to get us to go to her (if we did she’d get even louder or prolong it from experience) and when that didn’t work she came out and did it on the landing near us. It’s hardly ever real crying and she eventually calmed down and made

At other points in the day she would sit near me looking sad but wouldn’t tell me what was wrong. Like switch had been flicked she’s suddenly back normal like nothing had happened.

She tends to mess about at bed time (it’s been worse recently) and will secretly read after being told to go to sleep. We spend our evenings going up to check because we’ve caught her reading until midnight in the past. She’s taken torches, head lamps, toys that light up, anything she can get her hands on so she can secretly read. I check her bed and drawers but she then sneaks out to find something or cracks her door to let light in. When we talk to her she’s very sorry and will “definitely go to sleep” but you can guarantee that 10 minutes later you’ll find her door open again.

We’ve tried letting her stay up an extra half an hour to read on the understanding that she then goes straight to sleep but she never does.

Tiredness could be a factor but even when she’s slept she’s like this.

Behaviour is worse in the mornings and evenings. Clothes and the feeling of clothes is usually a problem. She won’t get uniform on with someone standing over her. You’ll instead catch her reading or playing but often loud games, she’s trying to tell us she’s not doing as she’s told which again leads us to the attention seeking.

I would say I’m strict, there are always consequences and I can get cross, but I’ve also tried be patient, ignoring it, talking to her, trying to understand. I’ve run out of ideas.

When we get cross I find her reaction is odd. Her sister would look guilty and sorry or upset but DD10 gets angry even when she’s done something really bad and she knows it. The angrier we are the angrier she is. She can be quite cutting with the things she says when this going on.

We’ve considered whether this is autism (there are other small indicators such as emotions or reactions often seem staged like it’s something she’s seen and is trying out, lack of empathy, the intelligence, extreme emotions (very angry or very sad, extreme excitement) that often seem misplaced.) She went through a short stage out of the blue at 18 months of banging her head on the cot in the middle of the night when she woke up. She’s always needs to be constantly stimulated with activities. Her cousin has autism (non verbal).

I’ve also considered whether she wants more attention from me so I’m trying to do more 1:1 with both children. Following one afternoon with her last week she kicked off again so it’s not working yet.

For people looking in she’s articulate, intelligent, great at making friends, well behaved etc, but we’re struggling at home. Any advice?

OP posts:
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BunnyRuddington · 04/06/2025 08:58

Your poor DS @ThisCatCanHop. I hope that he is receiving more support now.

@Diddlypop who is it that you’ve decided to speak to? Smile

SoggySock · 04/06/2025 09:25

@Diddlypop

Yep - dealing on my own too!

Again, I’ll get shot down - but I’ve worked in schools for a long time, and I see them trying to implement soft strategies - but I honestly, honestly think the best strategy is clear boundaries, consequences and the adult being in control rather than the child.

To me, you are doing the right thing. You have a bright child with their own strong opinions, but she still needs your guidance to get through school. Once she becomes CEO, then it’s her turn to rule!

Door slamming here. It’s stopped now. I get swearing now instead but that = phone blocked. Which has stopped the swearing.

Before phone, I had a reflection room (nothing breakable) where she had a time out. Again, I’ll get flamed but I held the door handle until she calmed down and didn’t fight to get out. She’d kick the door - but this stopped when she realised that I was calling the shots.

I have just not heard of ‘gentle’ parenting working with a child like this. Once she believes she is winning, and if I give in - she escalates. Massively. Then it would be refusing to go to school or do any school work.

SoggySock · 04/06/2025 09:32

I went full Supernanny (again I’ll get flamed) - but I’d check out the YouTube videos.

People think she’s terrible today, but in the age of diagnosis and with school exclusions at a record high, SEND crisis and long, long delays, desperate parents at the end of their tether - I don’t see this new ‘ethos’ working better than the Supernanny technique.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about these subjects:

drspouse · 04/06/2025 10:04

@SoggySock we walk away from our DS if he's escalating and we go in a room where we can shut the door. It's been a year or two but he now sees he's not getting a response and is quicker to calm down.
He escalates and tries to draw us in because the dopamine hit from escalating is really addictive to the ADHD brain.
This is also why we NEVER try and discuss feelings at the time (he's not that great later but the whole gentle parenting "I know you're having big feelings right now" just doesn't work for my DS), never give more than a brief reason and then No and then no further answer.
ADHD Dude describes it as "ignoring the noise".

drspouse · 04/06/2025 10:50

Oh and honestly? Don't bother reading The Explosive Child. It says to reduce all demands on the child and the research shows that the more parents do for a child, the worse their behaviour gets.
We went through a phase of attempting to implement this. Once he had got used to not having one demand, something else became the trigger - things we absolutely cannot control or remove e.g. he would ask what was for dinner, hear it was something he didn't like, and throw something and break it on hearing that. TEC goes on about "what were your expectations before the explosive behaviour" but there was no expectation to ask about dinner, to like dinner, or even to eat dinner.
Now we have a plan of introducing one new challenging thing at a time, bedding it in, and then introducing something else. So we started with doing his washing, then other chores that are "for everyone" like setting the table, and last Sat he made dinner (with help and supervision). Every new expectation is met with "Children don't do that" or "I don't do that" or "That's against the law" but we don't bother to respond, we just wait as a PP has said (we don't tend to use "now or in five minutes" but just say he's going to do it, and then get on with whatever else we were doing).

If it's time sensitive we would give a warning that whatever he's doing is stopping in 5 minutes (turn off TV/console, or stop playing the game, or stand in room looking patient if he's playing Lego).

Diddlypop · 04/06/2025 11:14

That does sound similar. DD is definitely going through hormonal changes and we’ve had other recent changes with our situation which I know are causing her stress.

She tends towards anxiety (hair chewing has been a problem during tests at school) and we think this plays a big part.

She tends to form strong friendships and due to circumstances she’s currently missing that which I know is upsetting her. She’s also upset about her sister going away.

She also tends to be a hyperchondriac and fixated on illness and cuts etc. I’m not sure a label will help her if we can get her help for the emotional side irrespective.

All the posters saying I need to give her space to talk to me and she’ll cut me off when she’s older- maybe, but she does talk to me, we talk about feelings all the time when she’s calm or upset, I encourage her to let me know if there are problems and then we discuss whether I can help or if she wants to try on her own. I’ve rearranged the way I work so that I’m home and I’m present for them and although they have a loving relationship with their dad and I tend to be the “disciplinarian” they both tend to come to me for help, with issues or just generally gravitate towards me (I can’t finish a day’s work without them both in my office chatting away to me).

I’ve been suggesting there’s possible, mild autism or some other issue with her since she was 2 with push back from family so I’m not, as some have said, “not listening” but I also agree that people are too eager to jump to diagnose people nowadays without considering that maybe we also have a behaviour issue here. Today she is jumping through hoops to make it up to us, she fed the cats, made her breakfast and tidied up without being asked and she helped her sister get ready for her trip, all without a fuss and with several apologies for last night. She also got showered and dressed without any issues and went to sleep straight away last night.

Knowing the cycle, in a couple of days when the dust has settled she’ll slowly slip in to dragging her feet to get ready and will stop doing her chores without being asked. I honestly think a big part of this is down to inconsistency (partner often contradicts me or gives in for an easier life).

My partner isn’t sat quietly judging me, he’s appalled by the behaviour and believes, like me, that there’s possibly an underlying issue but that a lot of this comes from DD trying to be in control and not do as she’s told. She also acknowledges that she reacts to feelings of excitement or worry with anger. He just tends to take the back seat which is something I’m trying to address with him. I know it feels good for some MNers to come on here and judge people as being terrible parents and not loving their kids to make them feel better about themselves but, other than the outbursts, you have no idea what our relationship is like.

@SoggySock @drspouse This! Gentle parenting has done nothing for us. If we give in on feeding the cats the next thing will be clearing the table and the next will be getting dressed for school. When not having a tantrum she thrives from being kept busy, not sitting around on screens. We lived in a village where gentle parenting was favoured by families and all I saw were kids who didn’t behave, bullied other kids at school and were being expelled, some as young as 7 (this happened a lot!).

I know I need more 1:1 with her which I’m putting a lot of effort in to finding the time to do (as well as with her sister) and we’re going to reach out to a family friend who is an educational psychologist to talk about regulating her emotions. He knows DD fairly well already.

OP posts:
AmaryllisNightAndDay · 04/06/2025 11:20

Agree with pp, nothing works all the time for everyone. I mixed and matched.

Explosive Child was especially helpful to us before DC had been assessed, it turned out that reducing demand was helpful for us because we were making far too many demands of the kinds that DC couldn't meet but we didn't know that until after the assessments when I had some real surprises about things I had assumed that DC could do/understand but I was wrong. After that we had a much better idea of what were reasonable demands.

Another book I found very useful was Caroline Webster-Stratton's "Incredible Years" - mainstream, rather old now but very brisk and practical and covers a lot of ground, including how to do consequences effectively. In theory it's aimed at age 3-8 but also works well for older children who're having problems, it's validated and was used by our local children's hospital as the basis for parenting groups. When things were going well I could use more of Incredible Years, when things were going tits-up I tended to go back to Explosive Child for a while to calm things down and reset.

After my DC was diagnosed with an ASC I mixed in ASC-specific strategies as well. Parenting definitely includeda lot of trying things out and making it up as we went along!

FizzySherbet · 04/06/2025 11:23

You have literally just described my 6 year old DD. She is exactly the same with all of the challenging behaviour's at home. Anger, screaming, kicking, hitting. Constant bad moods. We all walk on eggshells around her and she rules the mood in our house. Head bangs her pillow to fall asleep, sensory issues with toothpaste, clothes etc.

But she is absolutely perfect at school. No issues. Polite, helpful, patient, kind, calm. Don’t think anyone actually believes the difference at home. Unable to get ASD referral if she’s not showing behaviour issues at school.

AmaryllisNightAndDay · 04/06/2025 11:40

a lot of this comes from DD trying to be in control and not do as she’s told.

And that is what many kids with ASCs do. They're all about control. DC could behave beautifully at times but a lot of things could send him into a tailspin. Any kind of ambiguity or lack of clarity about what to do (in his head not ours!) Any kind of surprise or unexpected demand or occurrence. Any kind of challenge to his expectations or beliefs. Any inconsistency between adults giving different instructions. (DC needed a Social Story to explain that sometimes different adults made different rules!) DC behaved beautifully when he had internalised what was needed and felt able to do it for himself. Otherwise all bets were off. And when he went into that state he tried to rule the world himself.

Oh, and if something really challenging happened - change to routine, new teacher, new demands - he might cope at the time to an extent that suprised me.... and then have the evils afterwards.

Not saying that your DC is the same as mine or has the same issues but from what you say I would really get some assessments done. Otherwise you're flying blind.

Diddlypop · 04/06/2025 11:45

@FizzySherbet sorry to hear that. It’s exhausting.

My girls changed schools last year due to a move (hence the issues with friendships etc currently) but we did tell each of DD teachers about the difficulties we were having and none would really believe it. Lockdown was particularly hard and she’d attack me every bedtime, I was black and blue and missing clumps of hair. Her teacher didn’t seem to believe it until she saw her sat in the road without any shoes on refusing to go in to school and throwing a tantrum. As soon as DD saw the teacher she jumped up and looked very ashamed.

The teacher banned her from half of the sports day that day, their model pupil, and gave her a good talking to which helped a bit, and explained they’d seen this with a few very intelligent girls. Something they advised which helped us is to send them to their room and tell them can’t rejoin the family activity until they believed they’d calmed down enough. Put the responsibility on them to assess their mood. If they come back and kick off send them back up. If they refuse breakfast, or to put their shoes on or brush their teeth, calmly explain you’ll be sending them in without food and tell them their teacher will have to put their shoes on and brush their teeth at school. This would be a terrible outcome in my DD eyes as she’s so keen to impress teachers.

OP posts:
HippyKayYay · 04/06/2025 11:47

I haven't read the whole thread, but a lot of what you describe chimes with my DD (12) who is AuDHD. She's not as explosive physically, but very explosive emotionally and can feel 'manipulative' at times. Her younger brother (not diagnosed... yet) can be physically explosive but this has got a bit better.

In any case, things that have helped is us getting less strict. I know it's counterintuitive. But placing less demands on her and being much more supportive when she does kick off has helped. Look up low demand parenting. I also now realise that when she's having a meltdown (for us these often happen very late at night, with her waking up her younger brother who then gets very upset) the person it's most horrible for is her. She's not doing it because it's fun. She's doing it because she's totally disregulated, and something that day (or in the preceding days) has overfilled her bucket/ used up all her spoons (look up both these analogies - they're really helpful for understanding ND outbursts).

Of course I don't always keep my cool. I've lost my shit with DD more times than I care to mention when it's 11.45pm, she's literally screaming at the top of her voice and her brother is crying. You just want to shut that shit down.It's fucking hard. But one thing's for sure is that the more rigid/ hard line I get, the worse it makes things...

And yes, the sensory stuff makes sense. When DD is aggitated or already highly disregulated at bed time she will kick everything off her bed, complaining that none of it feels right. But 90% of the time it's absolutely fine and she doesn't mention it. Ditto her school uniform in the mornings. Some mornings she rages about it. Most mornings it's fine.

Good luck OP. And look after yourself. I handle DD so much less effectively when I'm low on capacity (for whatever reason). You can't pull someone up onto the liferaft if you're drowning in the water yourself.

HippyKayYay · 04/06/2025 11:50

Btw low demand parenting isn't the same as gentle parenting or letting them get away with anything and everything. You still have boundaries. And after basically taking away a lot of demands, DD is now doing lots of stuff now voluntarily. Especially chore-related stuff...

There's a useful website called 'Good Inside' run by an American child pyschologist. It helped us a lot to understand that you don't need to be strict to have boundaries. She has a podcast too...

drspouse · 04/06/2025 12:35

HippyKayYay · 04/06/2025 11:50

Btw low demand parenting isn't the same as gentle parenting or letting them get away with anything and everything. You still have boundaries. And after basically taking away a lot of demands, DD is now doing lots of stuff now voluntarily. Especially chore-related stuff...

There's a useful website called 'Good Inside' run by an American child pyschologist. It helped us a lot to understand that you don't need to be strict to have boundaries. She has a podcast too...

That's very nice for you - but it isn't what worked for us. Removing demands led to another demand, and another one, and another one being removed and anything left could be a trigger including things we couldn't control at all.
Accustoming DS to new demands all the time is what works for us and it does sound like @Diddlypop is in a similar scenario.

There isn't any research showing that low demand parenting works and there is research showing that more accommodation (i.e. doing things the child should be doing) makes children more anxious.

I am also minded of the poster on the Yvonne Newbold FB group whose DD had all demands reduced so she was spending all her time in the house wrapped in a blanket, no clothes, and was taking over all the common rooms as "hers" and leaking menstrual blood because she didn't want to wear period pants, or indeed any pants.

There will always be demands, and I see my job as to accustom DS to these by introducing them gradually and safely. Also, I am not his servant, or his friend, I am his mother.

AmaryllisNightAndDay · 04/06/2025 12:57

Low-demand isn't zero-demand. It can't be! Some parents get stuck in a loop of making seemingly reasonably demands and punishing a child who can't meet them, which is a negative spiral. That's where Explosive Child can work better. Part of the idea is to lower demand or reframe demands to the point where you can start working with your child. If all you do is remove one demand after another until nothing's left then something has gone wrong.

I don't keep up with the research but my DCs teacher said to me "I don't know what you're doing at home but whatever it is keeping doing it because he's doing so much better at school". At the time I was mostly doing Explosive Child 😀

People occasionally propose mad things on Facebook groups. Explosive Child has worked well for a lot us us on MN.

drspouse · 04/06/2025 13:05

But that's my point.
When you remove one demand another one becomes intolerable that was previously tolerable.
That's why we increase demands gradually.

AmaryllisNightAndDay · 04/06/2025 14:23

drspouse · 04/06/2025 13:05

But that's my point.
When you remove one demand another one becomes intolerable that was previously tolerable.
That's why we increase demands gradually.

Yes, I agree, that's good anxiety management.

It can be a difficult balance to find the "sweet spot" for the right amount of demands.

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 04/06/2025 15:12

My dd needed constant stimulation. Absolute nightmare.

Later diagnosed AUDHD. She sounds a lot like your dd when she was that age.

Terri926 · 04/06/2025 17:36

Katherina198819 · 02/06/2025 19:25

There’s a chance it might be something more, but in my opinion, she’s behaving this way because she knows she can get away with it.

My own child would never dare to do most of the things you’ve described, and I think that’s because we consistently set boundaries from an early age. It sounds like she may have learned that certain behaviors are tolerated, and now it’s escalated. You mentioned there aren’t always consequences—why is that? What do you do when she’s attacking you? You said you try to stay calm and talk to her. Why?

I’m sorry, but in my experience working with autistic children, the school would have noticed by now. If she can behave there, she can behave at home too—the difference is that at school, she knows she must follow the rules, while at home she doesn't have to.

Nonsense, DS wasn't picked up till 11 not a single person had mentioned it before. I know a number of girls that weren't picked up till things all fell apart for their GCSE's, IME teachers don't have a clue with kids that would have previously been diagnosed with Aspergers syndrome.

DS's school report for his assessment made him sound like the perfect student - it's called masking and commonly falls apart when they get home from school. If you work with autistic children then I'm embarrassed for you that you don't know that. I don't think you should make yourself sound like an authority on ASD when you don't seem to have a clue.

You really need to stop obsessing about punishments OP - you can't punish the neurodiversity out of her. You really need to listen and learn what she needs and what works for her. You need to understand that she's not experiencing the world in the same way as everyone else, holidays are extremely stressful - she is likely to thrive on routine with lots of time to decompress after a busy day at school. Uniform may be really uncomfortable for her - removing labels may help a bit. She doesn't like toothpaste, it can be extremely strong, DS is the same.

Please stop thinking she's attention seeking and that you can punish her into submission. She deserves a calm, happy childhood where she is understood.

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 04/06/2025 18:08

Terri926 · 04/06/2025 17:36

Nonsense, DS wasn't picked up till 11 not a single person had mentioned it before. I know a number of girls that weren't picked up till things all fell apart for their GCSE's, IME teachers don't have a clue with kids that would have previously been diagnosed with Aspergers syndrome.

DS's school report for his assessment made him sound like the perfect student - it's called masking and commonly falls apart when they get home from school. If you work with autistic children then I'm embarrassed for you that you don't know that. I don't think you should make yourself sound like an authority on ASD when you don't seem to have a clue.

You really need to stop obsessing about punishments OP - you can't punish the neurodiversity out of her. You really need to listen and learn what she needs and what works for her. You need to understand that she's not experiencing the world in the same way as everyone else, holidays are extremely stressful - she is likely to thrive on routine with lots of time to decompress after a busy day at school. Uniform may be really uncomfortable for her - removing labels may help a bit. She doesn't like toothpaste, it can be extremely strong, DS is the same.

Please stop thinking she's attention seeking and that you can punish her into submission. She deserves a calm, happy childhood where she is understood.

Edited

Mine wasn’t picked up until 16 when she refused to attend school anymore.

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 04/06/2025 18:14

Katherina198819 · 02/06/2025 19:25

There’s a chance it might be something more, but in my opinion, she’s behaving this way because she knows she can get away with it.

My own child would never dare to do most of the things you’ve described, and I think that’s because we consistently set boundaries from an early age. It sounds like she may have learned that certain behaviors are tolerated, and now it’s escalated. You mentioned there aren’t always consequences—why is that? What do you do when she’s attacking you? You said you try to stay calm and talk to her. Why?

I’m sorry, but in my experience working with autistic children, the school would have noticed by now. If she can behave there, she can behave at home too—the difference is that at school, she knows she must follow the rules, while at home she doesn't have to.

You work in an autistic school and don’t know that children especially girls can mask?

Are you sure you know what you’re doing?

SoggySock · 04/06/2025 22:09

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow

And you - of course - realise that research into ‘masking’ is limited and the controversy surrounding fads/fashion/stigmas etc associated with ASD needs proper analysis?

Ellepff · 04/06/2025 22:15

lljkk · 02/06/2025 09:57

ps: Try reading the Explosive Child. It helped me change my mindset A Lot. Possibly out dated now, but might be cheap copies.

It was worth buying as an ebook since I couldn’t find it used. Agree it helps so much.

But also agree on seeking out other resources for sensory needs and maybe autism exam

drspouse · 04/06/2025 22:30

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 04/06/2025 18:14

You work in an autistic school and don’t know that children especially girls can mask?

Are you sure you know what you’re doing?

There's a lot of mileage in the idea that school has more routine than home which helps a lot of children feel more secure and calmer.

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 04/06/2025 23:54

SoggySock · 04/06/2025 22:09

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow

And you - of course - realise that research into ‘masking’ is limited and the controversy surrounding fads/fashion/stigmas etc associated with ASD needs proper analysis?

But we knew nothing about masking. Nothing. Until she refused to go and was in burnout.

The psychologists at the Children’s Hospital knew lots though. That’s where we heard about it.

l know nothing about fads or trends. I’m just repeating what we were told. By doctors of Pyschology who dealt with neuro diverse. It seemed to fit pretty clearly. I don’t believe it’s a trend.

My dd was quiet and well behaved at school. She had anxiety but no one picked up on it.

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 04/06/2025 23:56

drspouse · 04/06/2025 22:30

There's a lot of mileage in the idea that school has more routine than home which helps a lot of children feel more secure and calmer.

I think that’s crap.

We had routines at home. She was always much better in the holidays when there was no school routine.

And then she refused to go to school. So much for school routine.