Help- don’t know how to deal with 10 yo DD behaviour

[Diddlypop]

Hi,

I’m looking for advice about my DD behaviour and how to tackle it. Please be kind, this keeps me up at night and I’m so worried, and apologies for the length.

My DD is highly intelligent (reading age of 13 at age 6, flies through maths, can do complex Lego in a couple of hours etc) and her school thinks she is wonderful. They’ve described her as bubbly, helpful, and kind but we’re having a lot of problems at home and have been since she was 2.

She tends to fly in to uncontrollable rages, screams, throws things, attacks us (me usually) and she’s increasingly not doing anything she’s told to do. For example if she’s told to go upstairs and get ready for bed you can guarantee she’s not doing it despite promises to. I have to go up after 10-15 minutes whereby she’ll quickly scoot in to her room and start but I have to keep checking. If you tell her to tidy her room she’ll barely do any of it. I won’t go in to the long history of events but they include destroying her room because we told her we were all going on holiday, attacking me on holiday because I insisted she brush her teeth, breaking doors through slamming them, throwing a full pot of e45 cream on a carpet in a rage etc.

I told her and her younger sister to help me fold washing the other week and she was balling her fists and flinging it about. I got fed up and sent her to her room to calm down but she was screaming and throwing things for about an hour before eventually she calmed down (whereby I had her fold and put away the rest of the washing).

She occasionally is incredibly helpful but it’s rare. She can also be very loving and caring if her sister but then really mean to her as well.

She goes through fads of defiance such as refusing to brush her teeth (the toothpaste is too strong, brushing hurts etc), it’s a huge drama and then suddenly it’s not a problem anymore and she enjoys it. Currently she’s not changing her underwear daily. I caught this by chance and now I’m finding I have to check every day. She’s 10 and I can’t see this is normal, is it?

My parents think she’s attention seeking from what they’ve seen (and also a bit lazy) as this all started after her sister arrived when she was 2. Trying to get to the bottom of it I calmly observed her yesterday, didn’t get angry when she acted badly. There were 8 times she kicked off or got upset!

Not going through all of them, her sister wouldn’t let her play with her toy. This resulted in DD getting upset and asking me to make her. I said no as her it belongs to her sister and she’d only just started playing with it. She loudly cried in her room and ranted about it, but when her sister gave her the toy 10 minutes later she didn’t want it, was back to normal like nothing happened.

We were hanging pictures in her room but it was a mess so I told her we’d do it after she’d made her bed. She did a half arsed job hiding blankets under her duvet. I told her to do it properly and she flew in to a crying, ranting rage. Trying not to get annoyed we carried on with other jobs but she gets louder to try to get us to go to her (if we did she’d get even louder or prolong it from experience) and when that didn’t work she came out and did it on the landing near us. It’s hardly ever real crying and she eventually calmed down and made

At other points in the day she would sit near me looking sad but wouldn’t tell me what was wrong. Like switch had been flicked she’s suddenly back normal like nothing had happened.

She tends to mess about at bed time (it’s been worse recently) and will secretly read after being told to go to sleep. We spend our evenings going up to check because we’ve caught her reading until midnight in the past. She’s taken torches, head lamps, toys that light up, anything she can get her hands on so she can secretly read. I check her bed and drawers but she then sneaks out to find something or cracks her door to let light in. When we talk to her she’s very sorry and will “definitely go to sleep” but you can guarantee that 10 minutes later you’ll find her door open again.

We’ve tried letting her stay up an extra half an hour to read on the understanding that she then goes straight to sleep but she never does.

Tiredness could be a factor but even when she’s slept she’s like this.

Behaviour is worse in the mornings and evenings. Clothes and the feeling of clothes is usually a problem. She won’t get uniform on with someone standing over her. You’ll instead catch her reading or playing but often loud games, she’s trying to tell us she’s not doing as she’s told which again leads us to the attention seeking.

I would say I’m strict, there are always consequences and I can get cross, but I’ve also tried be patient, ignoring it, talking to her, trying to understand. I’ve run out of ideas.

When we get cross I find her reaction is odd. Her sister would look guilty and sorry or upset but DD10 gets angry even when she’s done something really bad and she knows it. The angrier we are the angrier she is. She can be quite cutting with the things she says when this going on.

We’ve considered whether this is autism (there are other small indicators such as emotions or reactions often seem staged like it’s something she’s seen and is trying out, lack of empathy, the intelligence, extreme emotions (very angry or very sad, extreme excitement) that often seem misplaced.) She went through a short stage out of the blue at 18 months of banging her head on the cot in the middle of the night when she woke up. She’s always needs to be constantly stimulated with activities. Her cousin has autism (non verbal).

I’ve also considered whether she wants more attention from me so I’m trying to do more 1:1 with both children. Following one afternoon with her last week she kicked off again so it’s not working yet.

For people looking in she’s articulate, intelligent, great at making friends, well behaved etc, but we’re struggling at home. Any advice?

Secondary school is the killer yeah.

l wish we’d pushed for a diagnosis earlier. She got an EHCP at 17

Yep, another one here 🙋

Wheels well and truly fallen off within weeks of secondary school.
My full time job is endless SENCO communications and fighting endless after school detentions. Some I agree with, most not.

Yep full time job here,

Dealing with constant communications with college. Dealing with meltdowns. Fighting for an EHCP which was awful.

Ignore any school who says ‘no problems’

Mine got to 16 with ‘no problems’

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow @BunnyRuddington @Pleaseshutthefuckup I’ve received multiple PMs now from other MNers who are appalled that you’ve highjacked this thread. If you want somewhere to share your own experiences please set up your own threads, PM each other or seek an outlet other than this thread. As I’ve already said, these contributions are no longer useful, you’ve stated your opinions, now please stop.

@GetMeOutOfHere20 how incredibly condescending. I’ve sought professional advice which many of you who are adamant it is autism or ADHD have ordered me to do and now you’re flaming me for doing it and for not just relying on your armchair diagnosis. I suggest you sit with your own feelings of having to be in control and correct and investigate where that’s coming from.

Again, please stop highjacking my thread and attacking other mothers for not approaching their situations in the same way that you have when they’ve taken time and energy to comment about their experiences.

some really great posts and helpful advice on this thread

@Pleaseshutthefuckup

And - respectfully back. Overdiagnosis/misdiagnosis is being discussed widely in the press.

https://www.newstatesman.com/culture/books/book-of-the-day/2025/03/our-overdiagnosis-epidemic

It concerns me that many have such a dogmatic attitude to ASD, and surely discussions should not be shut down if there are better ways that we can approach this as a society. A summary of the academic findings :

• Misdiagnosis:
• Broadened diagnostic criteria and increased awareness can lead to misdiagnosis of individuals who may not have autism but exhibit similar traits.

Resource Strain: Overdiagnosis could strain resources for diagnosis and support services, leading to delays or inadequate care for those who truly need it.

Labeling and Bias:
A diagnosis can create a label that might impact an individual's life and lead to bias from others.

Negative Impact on Understanding:
If the diagnostic criteria are too broad, it can hinder a deeper understanding of the nuances of autistic experience. “

But nobody has diagnosed the OP’s DD. She’s asked for help with her DD’s behaviour and many posters have suggested looking into ASD, ADHD and PDA.

It’s entirely up to the OP whether she listens to the numerous posters suggesting the same or not.

@Pleaseshutthefuckup

Ans also - I have been through this with my primary aged DS. I’ve been in a situation where one NHS paediatrician wanted to diagnose ASD (at age 4) without an ADOS screening - and after insisting on a screening - a different NHS paediatrician didn’t diagnose.

I’m completely sure that the reason for the NHS initially trying to remove him from the screening list was funding/a huge waiting list that they can’t cope with.

And how does that affect those who really, really need support who are on that list?
And my DS could have been given a lifelong diagnosis without a screening. All his life I could have been giving him the message that he has a condition that wasn’t based on an accurate diagnosis. How could that affect him?
He had an EHCP awarded shortly before reception entry, with all professionals telling me that mainstream was best match. And then the school rejected his entry.

After a huge fight, he got his place.

School assumed he had ASD and were targeting things like ‘turn taking’ - which DS has no problem with at all.
Then at the end of reception the screening took place and ASD was not diagnosed, but he was diagnosed with a language delay.
He is now end of Year 1 and his speech has improved dramatically - and he is secure to exceeding in reading/maths.

His speech is specifically targeted in all interventions.
So what should I do? Not discuss this because it makes people like yourself upset? Or should I be allowed to voice my opinion?

@BunnyRuddington

Ok, but through my experience I am suggesting to exercise caution.

That’s fine but please be mindful the OP had been very clear that she doesn’t want MNers to talk about their experiences

These kinds of posts are always tricky because it's hard to get a sense of how the situations really unfold.

I can relate to an extent as I have a child who's always been very sensitive and prone to lashing out.

Do you find yourself having any positive interactions with her at all or are they mostly centred around trying to get her to do things and her refusal or lashing out?

"Attention seeking" is not a bad thing - children (and adults!) need a sense of warm connection with their loved ones.

How do you make requests of her? I know if I order my kid to do something, he's going to be defiant about it.

I think it's helpful to approach some behaviours with a sense of humour too, not just punitive measures. I've caught my kid reading in bed well after he's meant to be asleep multiple times - I try to remain good natured about it while enforcing the boundary though. He also needs convincing or something to motivate him to clean his room too - I try not to get too hung
up on it.

Sometimes these things require a change in our own attitude rather than trying to control the child.

With respect, were you on the other thread where we dissected the problems with the book you're referencing from? ' The age of diagnosis '.

The neurologist, the author, who we determined didn't really have her facts right on all proclamations within her book? How is she the font of knowledge on subjects she doesn't even specialise in?

I don't trust the medical profession not to make errors, to misdiagnose regularly. I will never in years accept the rhetoric, which is just that, attempting to
discourage acknowledgement of Autistic people.

It's interesting that now we have a dogmatic attempt to cut Government support for low hanging fruit that we have a rhetoric saying people are over diagnosed. Uncanny in its timing.

The word autism doesn't for me fully capture the nuances. We have people impaired to the extent where they need full time carers. Yet another group who seem pretty ok, functioning well. But they're not able to manage in the rigid systems. These people therefore need their reality acknowledged. I see a problem with how language doesn't fully reflect the variety of experience.

A recent article I read declared that one Scottish city had halted any assessment and thousands on waiting lists told to go away basically.

The reality, I see first hand, is individuals are not even accessing an assessment in the first place. Thus, under diagnosed.

I sat in on a NICE approved ADOS assessment. This was multidisciplinary, 3 professionals. There was nothing about it that I as an NT person could relate to. There's no ' we're all a bit autistic nonsense'. The individual being assessed, in many settings ' seemed' typical. I certainly couldn't relate to what I saw. That acknowledgement matters, in school, in work, in life, for many reasons.

I'm interested in why people are against the possibility that we have a large ND population coming forward who would like a diagnosis. Can you explain the reason this is problematic for you personally? I can't recall if you're a teacher.

This shouldn't be allowed really- the example you give ref the ' professional ' deciding on something without testing. That is appalling and unprofessional. The reality is that the majority are going to be told they're not Autistic in the same unprofessional manner, without an assessment. It's easier time wise, financially and commitment wise for a random medical professional to declare it's anything but Autism.

The reason for this is because the services have been cut to the bone, people can't access assessments and the risk is more likely that a random doctor will say ' borderline personality disorder ', all sorts of MH issues. Because they're clueless, it's cheaper and they don't understand the nuances of Neurodivergence I now see regularly first hand.

If people were able to access the proper NICE approved ADOS assessment, this wouldn't happen. Yet, we have way too many ND people out there that services and the public if we are honest are uncomfortable about.

My guess is it's going to come down to the usual mantra.....' benefits '. Another illusion perpetuated by the masses.

Your experience is very valid I agree.

Do you know why you’re so hostile towards me because I really haven’t got a clue? I’m looking to have my DD assessed and whilst also looking at other factors. What is it about that that winds you up so much that you would spend so many days posting on here?

The one factor that over rides everything is an assessment and diagnosis. Everything else doesn't matter. I took ages to see it myself. I think others saw what I couldn't. Once assessed and diagnosed it just made everything make sense and I then confidently learnt the best parenting approaches to try out based on that. It's a never ending work in progress and hard. But less confusing and I don't personalise problems any longer as on me.

Traditional parenting is really hard going because it doesn't work too well and makes you as a parent feel like it's something you're doing wrong. It is not you.

I hope you can access a decent assessment service. I mentioned issues in my post above, as has another poster, where the assesment is not actually a proper 'ADOS' assessment but an opinion. I'd insist on ADOS assessment process. You can't trust anyone or anything outside of the proper process.

We do have a lot of positive interactions. She’s very loving towards me and we have a laugh together. She also confides in me a lot and when she’s in a good mood she’s helpful and caring towards all of us including her sister. She adores her sister (you’ll find them holding hands, cuddling on the sofa or playing mad games together and laughing their heads off) but a lot of her rages are also aimed at her sister or something she’s perceived she’s done.
I had a trip out with her on my own yesterday doing something she has a real interest in and we had a lovely time. She thanked me multiple times afterwards.
I tend to be the person that can get her to calm down quicker or snap her out of a rage and make her laugh. We also sat and did a craft together for an hour and she was calm, mature, no hint of anything atypical. In contrast, we went to a cafe with her sister and Dad and she was hyper, speaking loudly, telling us everything coming in to her head and getting giddy.

I’ve tried diffferent ways of making requests (strict to asking for help and making a joke about it), and I’ve tried reprimanding in the same ways as well.

Requests aren’t always received in the same way or always depend on how I say them. She can be in a really good mood and compliant, very mature and then suddenly turn. Likewise, she can be in a terrible mood but will do everything she’s asked to do.

For example, today we went to exchange books at the library which she asked to do and she was looking forward to. It started with a bit of a meltdown about how she could carry her books and eat her snack at the same time and, after calmly trying to help her, resulted in her sitting on the pavement furious with me and being told she’d go home if she escalated things. She quickly calmed down and was immediately playing and giggling with her sister as if nothing had happened. Cut to 15 minutes later leaving the library with the thickest and heaviest book she could find, whilst finishing her snack, and there were no complaints at all. We can never predict it.

If she's "exploding" it's because she can't hold her feelings in. Maybe Aspberger even though you don't use this term anymore.
Anyway, it does sound like she's suffering @Diddlypop and I would reduce chores/tasks/expectations to a minimum. I understand that you want to teach your daughters to be independent but right now this is not the most important thing to focus on. You need to reduce conflict at home because clearly it just escalates. Get her assessed and focus on essentials : she must brush her teeth and change underwear for starters. Don't ask too much of her, she's only 10 and even though she's highly intelligent she's emotionally immature.

@Diddlypop sometimes you have no choice but to go with the flow. I notice my own ND child adapts constantly in the space of one day. The shifts are dramatic sometimes and confusing.

You're putting too much of this all on you and your behaviour. It isn't all down to you and you're doing alot to try control every aspect.

She sounds like she has some great skills already and will be fine when she fully realises herself what her ND state is and has the right support in school mostly. It's so often school that leads to the problems outside of school, even if school are telling you all is well.

To add, she can also be incredibly mature for her age when not acting up. For example she looks after younger children very well, they look up to her at school and my sister commented that she’d happily have her babysit her 3 year old if she’d been old enough based on how lovely, sensible and mature she is with her.

The switch to sitting on the pavement and balling her fists at me because she doesn’t want to carry her own book is astounding.

This could be puberty and normal pre teen defiance. She also wouldn't be the first highly intelligent person to find rules and routine extremely boring.
Does not sound like consistent enough behaviours for asd.

I haven't read all the replies but I have a daughter with PDA and I would def be exploring that.

PDA kids are basically having a panic attack when a demand is placed on them. They need a low demand environment with as much autonomy as possible.

Drop unnecessary demands - offer options, suggestions.

Some pda kids keep their heads down at school as their demand avoidance strategy- it looks like they are complying but there is often a twist to it.

How does she explain her behaviour - eg after that incident on sitting on the pavement can she say why she did it? Was it overwhelm? Or does she refuse to discuss it? Same with why she behaves so differently with teachers to you- what's her explanation?

I don't have experience with children with ASD but I know one thing that helped my daughter when she was feeling out of sorts 🤣 was to keep a diary. She still does it now she is an adult. I told her I wouldn't read it and she should get everything out of her system in the diary. It really really helped her.