Teen daughter and male youth leader…

[FeatherGold]

My daughter (year 12, now 17) volunteers at a youth club for kids with SEN. She absolutely loves it but is also hoping to get a good reference for future uni applications etc. She’s been doing this for around 2 years.

One of the group leaders (let’s call him Dave) is around 45 and is well known as a charismatic but slightly ‘mad’ figure - in that the kids all seem to love him, but he doesn’t do anything by the book. He has no regard for admin or ‘procedures’, but he’s full of energy and ideas and gets the kids doing stuff they would never have thought possible. You get the picture.

I’m worried because he messages my daughter directly on her phone, and given his position as a youth leader and the age difference, it feels very inappropriate. He’ll ask her how her exams went - stuff like that - but most recently, suggested they meet for a drink to discuss an idea he has as a project for the kids.

I’m glad she’s telling me these things and she just laughs it off as ‘It’s just Dave, everyone knows he forgets the rules and just gets carried away with ideas’. She also has no intention of meeting him alone and gives him factual answers - nothing more.

How do I deal with this? He’s so careless in his actions that part of me thinks it is just a sort of disregard for conventional rules. I’d hate to cause a fuss around someone who is considered an inspirational figure at the club. But I’m also deeply uncomfortable about him messaging my daughter. It just feels wrong.

I should add that if I raised the issue or reported him, my daughter would be furious. She loves the club, is hopeful of getting a great reference, and she would see it as a huge betrayal of trust.

I've met an inspirational figure too, who was loved my all. He was behaving inappropriately with a 'looked after child' who was 18/19 at the time. He used to invite youngsters for drinks too.
You need to keep a very close eye on things or report it.
This man should not be working with young people.

In what world is it innocent for a 45 year old to ask a 17 year old out for a "drink", when they have ample, appropriate opportunities to discuss their shared interest at the place of the shared interest?

Do not approach Dave about this, you don’t know how he will react and he may increase his behaviour to a new level if he thinks he is likely to be found out officially.

Contact the safeguarding lead for the umbrella organisation, unless of course it is Dave himself. They can then decide what action needs to be taken with Dave.

If you can’t find out who that is, then this is another red flag. If the group meets in a hall belonging to another organisation, rather than their own place, you can report it to them (town council, church, school etc.) or to the local authority. If all else fails then police as this sounds like grooming and the police is one of the three organisations in this country with responsibility to act in safeguarding cases (the others being heath and social services).

Hey Dave, my daughter mentioned that you text her etc... so she is probably telling her friends and you don't really want people getting the wrong idea.
I know you're not a creep... but what would others think and it's probably against the rules... you know how teenaged girls talk.
Don't mentioned this to DD as she will only think WE are interfering and ganging up on her... cheers Dave!!"

Please raise it as a safeguarding concern.
My son had a football coach who did this. We were a little concerned but there didn’t seem to be anything untoward so we left it. My son was only in a group chat that the other boys from the team were also in. We then heard that the coach had been sending topless photos of his “muscles” to one of the boys and encouraging him to do the same. The boys mum found out and ripped him a new one. I don’t know if she raised it as a safeguarding concern with the club.
We left that team and so did a few others as the boys got older and moved on to another team. The coach started coaching a younger age group. We found out a year or so later that he had been arrested for s* asssult on one of the younger boys. He’s currently serving 19 years in prison.
What we saw and brushed off as harmless was actually the start of him grooming and he got more confident and obviously moved on to worse things. I will never brush something off now even if it’s a tiny concern.

My sister was a young leader in guides when it mixed with scouts as well . She had been going since she was about 9 .
We found out years later she was abused when she got to 15/16 by one of the adult men . He was very popular in his 50s and horrid .

This Dave guy is definitely crossing the line. Maybe he knows she is over 16 so thinks it's ok . But obviously it isn't.

Sorry OP but Dave sounds very iffy. The very fact he started privately messaging her at 16 then asking her out for a drink to "discuss?"at 17. Oh I'd bet my life he's stalking the lie of the land so to speak till he can say, put a friendly arm round her, or embrace her for just that wee bit too long. Can't forget that's Dave being Dave. It's grubby as fuck that a middle age man is messaging a child. Put a stop to it before it's too late.

I know you don't want to break your DD's trust but I think you should emphasise to her that Dave is a risk to himself and to the organisation, even if he's not a danger to her. He can't simply decide "I know I'm not doing anything wrong therefore safeguarding policies and procedures don't apply to me".

How about suggesting your daughter speak to Dave and the safeguarding lead/another trusted adult at the same time and say something like “it occurred to me after your text asking me out of a drink Dave, how this could easily be misconstrued and perhaps there’s a better way in order to safeguard you and the club from the possible fallout”. It definitely needs addressing imo

Most adults who work with children, generally prefer to follow the safeguarding rules to protect themselves as much as the children. If they aren’t following them, then you do rather question why they are willing to put themselves at risk of being accused of something.

I’m a scout leader and any young leaders we have who are under 18 we have to treat as children in the same way we do the other young people in the group.

There is no way this guy does not know his behaviour is inappropriate and is pushing/breaking boundaries. Unfortunately his ‘type’ is exactly the kind of type who gets away with dodgy behaviour because of ‘how great he is with the kids’ and historically speaking has hidden in plain sight in organisations involving children/young people.

I would contact the safeguarding LADO (local authority designated officer) for your local area and contact for advice. 16-18 is sadly a bit of a grey area… as is volunteer over participant

I agree with your earlier post that we need to safeguard vulnerable people.

He knows exactly what he’s doing. You need to let him know that you know as well.

Honestly i think everyone is blowing it out of proportion. Your daughter seems to have a sensible head on her, shes a volunteer and not a participant and very nearly an adult. I would let her take the lead on how to address it. If you betray her trust she'll stop confiding in you in the future if you stick your nose in now.
It doesnt sound like he means any harm and isnt a danger as such, just maybe not so professional but if he is getting through to the kids and connecting with them i would leave well alone.

If your dd is 17 and applying for uni I wouldn’t do anything. You could jeopardise her future by ruining her chances of a good reference from them.

I can't disagree with this statement enough. We're talking safeguarding around under 18's and vulnerable people with SEND. She absolutely shouldn't be hushed into silence for fear of not getting a reference. Secondly, even if she didn't get a reference, being able to talk at length on an application form or uni interview about the time spent volunteering will absolutely work in her favour. She sounds a very hardworking and sensible young woman.

I wonder if the safeguarding rules are with reference to service users not staff though. Lots of businesses employ 6th form staff and communicate directly with them.

I would re-enforce to your DD that he is behaving inappropriately and she should avoid being alone with him and definitely not to go for a drink or anything else with him and keep their interactions polite but suitably distant. She sounds sensible and it doesn't sound as though he has made any sexual advances towards her. Are there other teenagers there? If so have any of them had situations like this? Maybe being singled out as 'favourites' for special treatment. Keep it well under review at the very least.

The madcap free spirit who gets away with stuff around children, teens and vulnerable people, everyone thinks great bloke, oh that's just the way he is, kids get on well with him ...

Rolf Harris & Jimmy Saville spring to mind

What is the difference? I guess one important factor is, is he using personal devices / email addresses or personal ones?

‘It’s just Dave, everyone knows he forgets the rules and just gets carried away with ideas’.

I’d have a conversation about why she is excusing his behaviour. How far can Dave take it before she and other stop saying ‘it’s just Dave’?

It looks like the grooming of a teen by an older adult to me. It's almost irrelevant if he's breaking safeguarding policies at work or not, singling out a 16yr old girl for private texts and asking to meet for a drink when she's 17 looks dodgy to me.

This doesn't look like the behaviour of someone I'd want having vulnerable people in their care.

I can understand why you feel conflicted. It sounds like you try to see the good in people. BUT...safeguarding rules are there for a reason. If Dave can't be crazy, fun and 'out there' within the parameters that are there to protect everyone involved, then he shouldn't be working there at all. Working with young and/or vulnerable people means there is an expectation that you accept and follow such rules. If he wants to stay in this role, then he should be going out of his way to show he understands these rules, not obviously flouting them. You and your daughter recognise that he is behaving inappropriately, now Dave needs to recognise this too. Different situation, but the Head of Music at the secondary school I attended, was a bit crazy, fun and quirky. Most people found him odd but trusted him and went along with it, as he was known and accepted to be this way. Many of us even went to his house for additional music lessons (in full view of his wife and children). He never 'interfered' with any students that we know of, but he was eventually sent down for online child paedophilia. He had thousands of sick images and videos on his computer, and was involved in a sharing 'ring' of of sickos. He lost everything. This was long before safeguarding was really 'a thing'. Dave's behaviour is unacceptable. If there's doubt, then there's no doubt. Report him.

Your daughter is almost an adult and it sounds like she has the measure of him. Make sure you keep the lines of communication open, that she understands that he is behaving inappropriately and that she lets you know if he does anything that makes her uncomfortable.

“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to do nothing,”

YOU have to safeguard your DD - she is only 17.

She has been groomed already by Mr "whacky" - this is contrived persona to cover his predatory actions - he's setting up his 'plausible deniability' by his 'admin/chaos/maverik' shtick .... so your DD's opinions cant determine the outcome. You migh need to do some reassurance with her.

At 45 she isnt the first and wont be the last. Safeguarding is drummed down your throat morning noon and night (I volunteer for scouts) - probably to protect the organisation as much as the child.

He knows exactly what he is doing. He needs reporting to head of org and/or LADO.

Your DD needs to see you take decisive action right now even if she does not see herself in danger but for the protection of others.

Its grooming is about blurring boundaries. Those DCs he works with are especially vulnerable and unable to advocate for themselves.

I would probably say something to him. If he is funny about it, that’s a mega red flag. If he just doesn’t realise he's over stepping and is genuinely just a kooky guy, he will understand and maybe be a little embarrassed.