Teen daughter and male youth leader…

[FeatherGold]

My daughter (year 12, now 17) volunteers at a youth club for kids with SEN. She absolutely loves it but is also hoping to get a good reference for future uni applications etc. She’s been doing this for around 2 years.

One of the group leaders (let’s call him Dave) is around 45 and is well known as a charismatic but slightly ‘mad’ figure - in that the kids all seem to love him, but he doesn’t do anything by the book. He has no regard for admin or ‘procedures’, but he’s full of energy and ideas and gets the kids doing stuff they would never have thought possible. You get the picture.

I’m worried because he messages my daughter directly on her phone, and given his position as a youth leader and the age difference, it feels very inappropriate. He’ll ask her how her exams went - stuff like that - but most recently, suggested they meet for a drink to discuss an idea he has as a project for the kids.

I’m glad she’s telling me these things and she just laughs it off as ‘It’s just Dave, everyone knows he forgets the rules and just gets carried away with ideas’. She also has no intention of meeting him alone and gives him factual answers - nothing more.

How do I deal with this? He’s so careless in his actions that part of me thinks it is just a sort of disregard for conventional rules. I’d hate to cause a fuss around someone who is considered an inspirational figure at the club. But I’m also deeply uncomfortable about him messaging my daughter. It just feels wrong.

I should add that if I raised the issue or reported him, my daughter would be furious. She loves the club, is hopeful of getting a great reference, and she would see it as a huge betrayal of trust.

I think your daughter should do the communicating snd you can help her from behind the scenes. It’s fine for her to say that it sounds like a great idea, but she doesn’t go out for drinks because she’s only 17, so would rather discuss at the club.

If he's acting so personal with an underaged teen.. then who's to say that other gullible young people won't be put in potential danger?

'It sounds like he does do amazing stuff for the young people he supports and I don’t think the fact he is overstepping a social boundary on one level means he would ever mistreat a service user' is a pretty disturbing thing to say...

It is very important OP that you are aware that the reason that wicked men get away with all this is because no-one speaks up.

But if they did you might see a very different picture ....

Supposing the same thing has been happening to say 4 others (clients or workers) but all of them say nothing for the same reasons that you and your DD have not. Would that make you view the situation differently?

If so, how would you know about these other 4 if no-one speaks up? You wouldn't.

Way back it was realised that the key to safeguarding was openness - so often I sat in on meetings where each of the elements of a story was minor in itself, but when all the elements and information was put together a very different and more concerning picture emerged.

It is worth giving this some thought OP. Communication is the key to safeguarding. If no-one expresses a concern then the problem persists, and could potentially worsen.

This needs to be done by someone in authority not the OP.

It needs to be recorded and monitored.

If he's 'innocent' all well and good but the OP or her DD will not be around to check if he is'nt.

Its like boiling the frog - the grooming persona has worked so far that the DD thinks its OK to brush under the carpet. This is a serious and intentional transgression.

If abusers and groomers had creepy vibes, they wouldn't be successful at what they do. That's the whole point of grooming.

As a leader he should be following safeguarding rules so for all the good he is doing he is letting the group and your daughter down. The rules are there for a reason and he is responsible for following them.

The scouts have a yellow card system so no one should be communicating 1 - 1. https://www.scouts.org.uk/volunteers/staying-safe-and-safeguarding/safeguarding-in-the-programme/online-communication/

While Dave might be just fun, actually a man inviting a 17 year old out for a drink is wrong.

A lesson for your DD might be to consider a situation whereby if she was aware that he was pushing similar boundaries with someone else would she report it?

Safeguarding is not to directly intervene or fix it on the ground - it is aways an obligation to escalate it to appropriate lead who can objectively employ all policies and may have additional pieces of the jigsaw.

just no to all of this post

Jimmy Saville had a mad persona….

There are so many apologists on this thread that are minimising what has happened (he has broken multiple safeguards already - it doesnt need to reach SA) - makes me wonder why they dont want the standard reporting procedures to be implemented.

If theres nothing further in it, it will be resolved after investigation and Mr Wacky will be instructed to behave within the framework so it doesnt put volunteers, clients and their parents in an uncomfortable position re intractions.

I’ve worked with 3 people who later were done for sa of our client group. none were creepy.

I was groomed by a 45 year old man aged 17 in a part time job and you would think I was rather sensible and mature for my age at the time. Make sure you have your daughter's back on this.

I may be able to shed some light on to this from the perspective of someone who leads children’s activities under a franchise and is also the DSL for the franchise network as a whole.

I would suggest you keep a very close eye and as someone earlier mentioned, contact your LADO for advice.

Most of my team are over 18, but I do have a couple of class assistants who are paid and are 17. They are ex students of mine, that I have known years, and while I have their phone numbers for work purposes, I never ever message them outside of session time unless it is a query related to work (e.g. about pay or holiday requests.) even then I encourage them to use email. I don’t even allow them to follow me on social media, which they laugh about! But they are still minors and it is a serious matter.

I also have another 16 year old student who does volunteering with us. Under no circumstances would I send her a message, I don’t even have her contact details. Anything she needs to contact me about or vice versa (absences etc.) is done via her mum.

Your daughter is not an employee and I presume does not have a contract for this role. It is absolutely inappropriate for him to suggest meeting for drinks or checking how exams went outside of session time. This is a massive red flag and as someone who is in charge of running a group for vulnerable young people, it screams incompetence and/or disrespect for safeguarding laws.

While these laws are a lot different to when we were growing up, they have been put in place because of incidents that have happened in history and to prevent things happening in the future. Even if he is “harmless” he is extremely careless.

I would have a chat with your daughter about this and about the concerns surrounding how he conducts himself from a safeguarding perspective. If she is hoping to go into the education sector she will learn very quickly that his conduct is wrong.

As someone else suggested, I would also contact your local authority. You may even be able to do this anonymously. It could be that your small piece of the puzzle adds to or uncovers something even bigger that is going on.

At best, if he is just “creepy” he will learn his lesson and get a slap on the wrist. At worst, there is something more sinister to this and it will help others in future.

Can you chat to your daughter about safeguarding and suggest she herself calls Dave out on this and refuses to interact with these messages as they're actually inappropriate. As a volunteer approaching her adulthood has she been offered safeguarding training by the organisation? If not why not? Who is the club's lead on safeguarding? Ideally she should bring Dave's happy direct messaging to their attention. It's appropriate she knows what to do whether that's Dave trying to be too chummy or one of the members trying to chat her up/inappropriate behaviour from a member. There are various courses online, the NSPCC ones are supposed to be very good. I'd consider paying for a course for your daughter regardless, it's a useful qualification to have whatever she does later in life. https://learning.nspcc.org.uk/training/introductory-basic-courses

So did Rolf Harris and Gary Glitter!

He definitely doesn't "forget" the rules.

Going for a drink with a 17 year old to discuss business ideas? It's just not really plausible. Does he mean to a bar or would they be discussing moving forwards with his ideas over an orange juice in a cafe? If it was above board he would take it to the club's senior management, like a normal person.

Your daughter could probably handle this for herself but no one has any idea if she is one of many or not. He could even be trying it on with the young people he works with who presumably will have more limited capacity...

At 27 and with her being a volunteer not a participant it is not necessarily inappropriate for him to text her. She is obviously very sensible from what you have written and thus cautious about meeting up but again meeting a volunteer in a public place to discuss the project whilst not exactly wise is borderline as far as whether it’s allowed or not, it all depends upon circumstances (working on a specific new project it would be ok to meet up and a public location is definitely preferred, whereas inviting her for a drink to thank her would be a lot more concerning).

my advice, and I’m a safeguarding officer is to monitor the situation and ensure your daughter knows about appropriate boundaries eg daytime in a local coffee shop would be ok, evening at his house absolutely no!)! And crucially she knows she can say no and talk to you. If it escalates beyond the innocent talking about projects then you need to urgently contact the safeguarding lead but it’s not necessary at this point. I wonder if he even realises shes 17

Thank you everyone - just catching up with messages, I didn’t expect such a response.

I can say that I totally get all the replies about how inappropriate this all is - but also, how difficult it is to be in this situation, as one poster put it, between a rock and a hard place.

I tend to see the good in people and am really struggling with this. Especially as I see how much good Dave does for a lot of disadvantaged kids. I know how lame that sounds but it’s the truth. And then there’s my daughter too. It really is quite complicated, even if it seems black and white from the outside.

I’m going to give this a lot of careful thought.

Dave’ll fix it.

Wow! Your response is crazy! I’m so glad I don’t know you! The fact you even have to think about this is ridiculous. Just because he seems like a nice guy, don’t they all!!!!

Saville raised a lot of money for charity whilst sexually assaulting disabled children in hospital and he was given the benefit of the doubt because he did so much good for disadvantaged kids.

There is no 45 year old man who volunteers with teens who doesn't know that inviting a 17 yo girl out for 'a drink' is inappropriate.

There is no 17yo girl who is mature enough to make a decision about how to deal with this situation, because they are 17 and there is no such thing as a mature 17yo, they are all inexperienced and out of their depth when faced with a predatory man.

It is your job as her parent to step in. All you have to do is make 1 phone call.
The boundary was crossed the moment he sent her that message. There's no grey area here.

What is there to report? Your daughter is both seeing it for what it is and telling you about it. Aa you said her trust in you is of paramount importance. Don't overreact but listen as you are doing. It's difficult I know.

Let me give you some careful thought. Worked with 3 men 20 years ago. One got charged and pleaded guilty to child sex offences in about 2007. The other two are in court this year for child sex offences (one rape) which date back to 2005-6. I don't make a point of hanging around with paedophiles, but these men were pillars of the community and worked in a Catholic school. All of them, wouldn't imagine it and didn't at the time. The last two are pleading not guilty. It doesn't matter what I think, but I would not be entrusting my 17 year old daughter in their care. I wouldn't be learning the hard way, and I certainly wouldn't want my daughter 20 years later realising that something awry, something dreadful happened and only as an older woman did she have the courage to articulate and describe it.

It's your job to protect your daughter.

In Scouting for example the phone numbers of under 18s are not allowed to be shared or held by anyone.. just for info.

Hi op, this is my field as well and I would strongly, strongly encourage you to report Dave.

I've worked with a number of people who act in this way. They are not only leaving themselves open to allegations, but leaving the charity they work for vulnerable and most importantly- they are setting a standard for vulnerable young people that this is an okay way for a professional adult to behave around them. Even if Dave is 100% genuine, Tony may not be and if a young person who is vulnerable thinks its OK for Dave to suggest they go for a drink, they may not see the danger Tony presents. The fact your DD is volunteering as a young leader means Dave is also setting a precedent with other up and coming youth workers of what is acceptable. This could lead to them going on to other places of work, crossing boundaries and being fired or investigated. It also sets the precedent within his service that it's fine for leaders to act this way so he's leaving the young people who attend vulnerable to abuse. At worst Dave does this 'safely' with everyone so when he does it maliciously with a couple it flies under the radar and everyone says oh but that's just Dave.

Please report him and I think you should explain all of this to your DD because actually SHE is a well placed person to report him. I'd be exploring her responsibility to club members in terms of safeguarding and whistleblowing and ethical standards. If the kids in that group have SEN then they are some of the most at risk of abuse and Dave knows better. He's making a choice and my question is why.