Teen daughter and male youth leader…

[FeatherGold]

My daughter (year 12, now 17) volunteers at a youth club for kids with SEN. She absolutely loves it but is also hoping to get a good reference for future uni applications etc. She’s been doing this for around 2 years.

One of the group leaders (let’s call him Dave) is around 45 and is well known as a charismatic but slightly ‘mad’ figure - in that the kids all seem to love him, but he doesn’t do anything by the book. He has no regard for admin or ‘procedures’, but he’s full of energy and ideas and gets the kids doing stuff they would never have thought possible. You get the picture.

I’m worried because he messages my daughter directly on her phone, and given his position as a youth leader and the age difference, it feels very inappropriate. He’ll ask her how her exams went - stuff like that - but most recently, suggested they meet for a drink to discuss an idea he has as a project for the kids.

I’m glad she’s telling me these things and she just laughs it off as ‘It’s just Dave, everyone knows he forgets the rules and just gets carried away with ideas’. She also has no intention of meeting him alone and gives him factual answers - nothing more.

How do I deal with this? He’s so careless in his actions that part of me thinks it is just a sort of disregard for conventional rules. I’d hate to cause a fuss around someone who is considered an inspirational figure at the club. But I’m also deeply uncomfortable about him messaging my daughter. It just feels wrong.

I should add that if I raised the issue or reported him, my daughter would be furious. She loves the club, is hopeful of getting a great reference, and she would see it as a huge betrayal of trust.

It sounds like your dd has him sussed and supporting her through navigating her interactions with him is the way forward. How does she get there and back?

I’d be checking their safe guarding policies at the club…

He is breaking safeguarding rules. Red flag. You need to check up on the governance around the running of the club. You should have access to their policies via the secretary/ chair.

Dave has all the makings of a creepy middle aged man.

I’d be concerned he uses his ‘mad’ persona to get away with doing things that are inappropriate. For now I’d keep an eye on things, she turned him down for the drink so the situation is resolved. Just keep the conversation open and if he crosses another line I’d report him.

If this was a 45 year old teacher at her college or sixth form you'd be worried. Go with that feeling.

This would be a good opportunity to ensure your dd studies safeguarding and related regulations. Advise her to show you all communication from him _ mention that this is to protect him as well as her. I can understand her not wanting to jeopardise her reference etc, but I wouldn't trust this man one bit. Tread carefully, but I think his behaviour needs looking into.

Yes, I’ve looked at the policy online and he is breaking the rules.

I’ve met the man several times and so I get that it’s possible he’s not being creepy - he’s the sort of person who has a mad idea and runs with it. The kids get so much out of him.

This is why I feel so conflicted.

Your daughter sounds sensible. Did you get creepy vibes when you met him?

Dave knows full well what the rules are! He's chosen to work with people with Sen where these rules are even more important

Why can't he just discuss his idea at the youth club?
Why does it have to be over a drink and op daughter is underage for alcohol.
His motives may not be pure.

As you’ve met him a few times can’t you have a word with him. Tell him that your DD mentioned that he has text her and having read the messages you think it would be in his best interests not to message the young people anything that isn’t club related.

It’s not about creepy vibes though!
Dave does not get enthusiastic and carried away.
He is fully disregarding safeguarding policies and procedures and he knows this.

Not at all a good way to assess someone’s behaviour! If he’s an experienced creep he will present as non creepy. He’s being entirely inappropriate and he’s working with vulnerable young people. He needs to be pulled up on this.

Yes, I know he’s breaking the rules and I realise he may even be creepy … without having a creepy vibe. I also think it’s entirely possible he’s just someone who gets carried away.

Ultimately - and selfishly - I’m extremely worried about betraying my daughter’s trust and the possible fallout. She might not tell me anything again.

I could contact Dave directly but I’m worried he’d say something to my daughter - given his track record.

You could contact your local area designated officer (LADO). They are responsible for oversight of any safeguarding concerns relating to over 16 volunteers and those working with children and vulnerable adults and are employed by the local authority.

They should investigate any concerns.

While your DD may have the measure of him, others may not. Safeguarding rules are there for a reason - anyone disregarding them, either because they don't understand their importance, or deliberately, should not be working in that sector.

@FeatherGold

i am male and work with children also run a disability youth club with vulnerable kids and families attending.

I love kids it’s been my true life’s work. There are loads of good guys like me out there the problem is you can’t tell who is good and who is a bad guy in the shadows.

There is every chance Dave is a bit bonkers loves kids and being around them thinks his rule breaking behaviour is one of the reasons the kids love him now for the but.

He just has to get with the program or he will loose all he’s worked for his reputation his ability to run the club everything. I would say he’s is lucky to have your clued up daughter and her reasonable clued up mum.

Dave needs to change for Dave’s sake. Unfortunately if it’s not you telling him he needs to change then it will be someone else which could and will be worse for him.

It could be a very difficult conversation and I am sure he will feel upset he’s come across the way he has BUT if he is a good guy he will be thankful as I would that you have spoken to him and change his ways as his upset does not trump kids safety and parental confidence.

just for clarification for any reason he is a bad guy then he can burn and is another one letting us all down.

Oh I know he can easily be creepy without presenting as so but it’s a good place to start.

i take it they have to do safeguarding training as part of their role? Could your DD ask him to go through the policy with her under the guise of something she needs to complete for school? And go from there? He does need to follow the rules

How did he respond when dd refused the drink?

You don’t need to do anything, your daughter has made sensible choices and is almost an adult. She could talk to the groups safeguarding lead about the texts and invites to meet up but please bear in mind it might be totally innocent. She could also change her number or block him. It’s up to your daughter to trust her gut feeling, she will know if he’s got feelings for her. Familiarising herself with the safeguarding document will help clarify what’s ok and next steps if required.

Just read this update after I posted. I understand your risk but if he was to then speak to your daughter or do anything of the sort then I think you report him to his governing body.

Also if he’s does really give you that much of a bad vibe that you feel the way you do then trust your gut.

I love what I do and would not jeopardise it for anything. The rules keep everyone safe and if he doesn’t understand that then he needs to give it up it’s that simple.

I would make sure your daughter is totally familiar with all the safeguarding stuff and can carry on enjoying the club and working with Dave without ever falling for any of his mad suggestions that go outside of safe for her.
Maybe she should read the Sharkcage theory as it will help her in many situations going forward.

Is there any way you can make a request for a review of policies generally? Report anonymously? Get a third party to report? I completely understand your dilemma. I would be gathering evidence, checking policies, finding out who is resonsible for safeguarding etc with a view to raising a concern once I had all the info.
He knows very well that your dd needs his input for the reference. He has got you both over a barrel.

@FeatherGoldIf you think he might tell your dd then I’m afraid that’s another “red flag”. What a horrible situation you’re in. But @Ted201is right. My kids had a Scout leader who was a bit of a Dave, but he went to great lengths to protect himself - and the kids of course-from the slightest hint of anything inappropriate. Dave is risking everything he has built up here.

If I was in your position I would be speaking with Dave and explaining my concerns. He's a 45 year old man in a position of trust and should completely understand. I can imagine him thinking it was innocent and a lot of people meet for a drink to discuss things informally. However doing so with a 17 year old is not appropriate. Hopefully he will be apologetic and realise he's overstepped.

I can also imagine my daughter not wanting me to intervene but we are older and wiser :) I like to think so anyway.

If your dd is 17 and applying for uni I wouldn’t do anything. You could jeopardise her future by ruining her chances of a good reference from them.

What safeguarding rule is it he is breaking by contacting her? I agree it is a bit creepy but she sounds like she has handled it just fine and she is there as an equal to him as a leader so I’m unsure why this is being seen as akin to a teacher pupil thing?

It sounds like he does do amazing stuff for the young people he supports and I don’t think the fact he is overstepping a social boundary on one level means he would ever mistreat a service user. Or should be assumed to be doing so.

I like the idea of exploring the safeguarding stuff closely as part of her development, and then saying “oh it says here that as a team the leaders have to only have organised meetings” type thing to head off any future invitations… or “as I’m only 17 I’m actually still classed as a minor here so even though I’m helping I’m not able to do x or y” to remind him of the boundaries and clarify to other leaders her role etc.

But I’d be very wary of jumping in with 2 feet and ruining her chances as well as many young people and their club. DD sounds like she’s a capable young woman anyway and doesn’t need her battles fought.