Teen daughter and male youth leader…

[FeatherGold]

My daughter (year 12, now 17) volunteers at a youth club for kids with SEN. She absolutely loves it but is also hoping to get a good reference for future uni applications etc. She’s been doing this for around 2 years.

One of the group leaders (let’s call him Dave) is around 45 and is well known as a charismatic but slightly ‘mad’ figure - in that the kids all seem to love him, but he doesn’t do anything by the book. He has no regard for admin or ‘procedures’, but he’s full of energy and ideas and gets the kids doing stuff they would never have thought possible. You get the picture.

I’m worried because he messages my daughter directly on her phone, and given his position as a youth leader and the age difference, it feels very inappropriate. He’ll ask her how her exams went - stuff like that - but most recently, suggested they meet for a drink to discuss an idea he has as a project for the kids.

I’m glad she’s telling me these things and she just laughs it off as ‘It’s just Dave, everyone knows he forgets the rules and just gets carried away with ideas’. She also has no intention of meeting him alone and gives him factual answers - nothing more.

How do I deal with this? He’s so careless in his actions that part of me thinks it is just a sort of disregard for conventional rules. I’d hate to cause a fuss around someone who is considered an inspirational figure at the club. But I’m also deeply uncomfortable about him messaging my daughter. It just feels wrong.

I should add that if I raised the issue or reported him, my daughter would be furious. She loves the club, is hopeful of getting a great reference, and she would see it as a huge betrayal of trust.

If he's like this with your 17 year old, what could he be doing with the vulnerable children he has responsibility for. Your daughter can protect herself, those children/young people may not have that ability.

I think this could be a good lesson for her, in relation to safeguarding those more vulnerable. It's not just her is it, it's the others thay he has access to.

I don’t wish to be alarmist but absolutely this is a massive red flag. My daughter was in a similar situation and the man (sports coach) did a similar thing to do with social media and I didn’t report it when I should have done. He went on to offend and my daughter was a victim so I feel terrible guilt and have done for years. He must not message a child and he knows it.

Exactly this.

Anyone who disregards basic safeguarding (eg never being alone 1-1 with a young person or contacting them privately) should not be working/volunteering in a position of trust and high regard especially with ND kids. I think there are rules that can be done away with but never safeguarding.

@FeatherGold - not sure if you saw my post from yesterday - I know you've had a lot of replies on this one - so quoting above.

But please, please, do not do what some have suggested and approach this man directly or the organisation / management of the youth group.

Go through the LADO so that it will be looked into properly without exposing your daughter, or other staff and service users at the club to any potential comeback, either from him directly or others who may find out and blame her for trying to get a 'good man' into trouble.

Sorry, more to add. My ‘Dave’ was also mega popular with the girls and my daughter was horrified that I said I would report him so I didn’t. Honestly, as a safeguarding professional now it is your duty to report him. If there’s nothing theyll find nothing. If, like in my situation there is, he’ll be stopped potentially before it is too late. My ‘Dave’ spend two and a half years in prison for what he did to my daughter.

It’s all sounding a bit Jimmy saville to me

The person that said , “big difference between 11 and 17 “
the particular creep had been messing around with a 15 year old pupil from age of 13
no one found out till she herself was sixteen their where. His mo was to befriend

I've met a few "Daves" over the years. You need to have your evidence in place. They are incredibly sly. For now keep your wits about you, and on your daughter's side.
I hope we are wrong.

you Have to report. This is creepy as fuck. It’s exactly how these fuckers operate. He might be innocent, but if he is I’m sure he’ll be utterly horrified that he is inadvertently breaking down important boundaries that might lead to a vulnerable person being abused by a predator.

as for your daughter. I get that it’s hard at this age, she’s never going to outwit an experienced predator on this own ground, if that’s what he is. nor will she be able to admit that to herself just yet. she wants to see herself as savvy and grown up.

Can you pose her a version of this question: imagine she’s in the university interview, they ask her about this volunteering experience, does she answer ‚‘yay crazy Dave, we broke boundaries but it was fun‘ or ‚‘yes, it was a valuable experience, I learned about safeguarding, ethics and the importance of doing the right thing in difficult circumstances‘

Then ask, how will she feel if Dave’s photo is in the press as she goes to interview? (Because, like many here, I’ve met a few, hiding in plain sight. The most prolific, currently doing major prison time, luckily I only met in passing on a big community project How did I feel when I was his photo on the front of the local paper. ? Sick. Disgusted. And somehow… the work I’d done was tainted. I can never think of the good that project did.)

The important relationship here is between you and your daughter who is on the cusp of adulthood. you really don’t want to undermine her. You have raised her well and she has been volunteering for two years. This is her sphere. She knows Dave and she has been open with you about his contact which while inappropriate is not in any way criminal. She has demonstrated to you that she knows exactly how to deal with Dave. It won’t be the last time she faces inappropriate interest from a man. She has done everything right. She is keeping you informed. I’m sure if Dave overstepped the mark she would know what to say or who to go to.
If you wade into this on the basis of your suspicions and without her express permission, you will damage your relationship with your DD and completely undermine her. And for what? She may leave volunteering. Her trust in you will be broken. Dave may be forced out. The organisation which is providing the services will be under stress and clients may suffer. There is no evidence of any wrongdoing or malice on Dave’s part.
I would use this time to encourage her to open up to you. You could ask her what she would do if she felt any man in a position of authority was abusing their position. Talk through the issues. It’s not a cut and dried scenario. There are always unintended consequences if you interfere without fully knowing the facts. Don’t sacrifice your relationship with your daughter over this.

I work in a primary school and used to work with a teacher very like Dave. Charismatic, fun, rule breaking, very likeable. It turned out he was hiding in plain sight too, and using his position to groom ex pupils. OP please report to the LADO. I have a 17 year old daughter too, mine is autistic and vulnerable and would probably meet Dave for a drink. Maybe someone's 17 year old is doing that right now? Dave is 100% grooming her and he will have done it to others. Anyone in his position will have annual safeguarding training. Dave is disregarding the rules for a very good reason and he has a clear goal in sight. You have to report him.

I actually agree with this. I also think it will be undermining and potentially damaging to go behind DD’s back. OP is better to maintain the open dialogue and instead empower her DD to gain even further in confidence.

DD is already handling the situation exceptionally well and reinforcing really clear boundaries. If there was an actual safeguarding concern and DD or another DC needed protecting, OP should of course immediately step in.

She has done everything right.

@auderesperare - she hasn't "done everything right" though.
Anyone who is working with children, young people, or vulnerable adults MUST report any inappropriate behaviour they see, hear, of become aware of.

OP's dd hasn't done this, and doesn't seem aware that she should have.
The OP is now aware of what must happen, and the only possible dilemma there can be is whether the dd wants to report it herself or whether she accepts the OP is going to.

Just something that might help sway your or her decision to act. The idea of her risking a reference for uni is not applicable as unis will not seek references from volunteering roles.

I know lots have said at 17 she's nearly an adult, however, she's been volunteering since she was 15 so very much in a vulnerable position and Dave's behaviour could be seen as grooming.

Bearing in mind the nature of the club, she and Dave will both have had safeguarding training and he as a grown adult with a fully developed frontal lobe will be aware that his actions are not appropriate.

Finally, Jimmy Savile was just a 'slightly mad' figure... Until he wasn't.

I can assure you the thread is genuine.

I started it yesterday but since then have been very busy with work, family etc. I am reading all the replies as best I can but there are a lot. It’s a bit overwhelming to be honest and I haven’t had the chance to process everything properly, let alone answer posters individually. It’s making me feel v anxious.

I'm really grateful for the guidance, and also horrified by how many posters have similar stories - and will contact LADO for advice. I think that’s the best course of action but I need to decide how to involve my daughter. And I hope you can appreciate that’s not straightforward.

"I think that’s the best course of action but I need to decide how to involve my daughter. And I hope you can appreciate that’s not straightforward"

But it really is straightforwards. She's had the relevant safeguarding training (she definitely should have!) so she will know that his behaviour isn't appropriate towards her, or indeed towards anyone under age.

I'm sorry but if she's struggling to see that, or can't understand your concerns then she needs to consider working towards a degree that doesn't involve safeguarding others.

My 18 year old volunteers at a child contact centre. She has been involved in safeguarding training from very early on. She understands that it's her responsibility to report any concerns she might have. If that be a service user, a volunteer or a staff member.

Safeguarding is everyone's responsibility, regardless of the position we might hold (or not in some cases) and she needs to understand that working with vulnerable people she will encounter situations where she has to act, and that might be a very uncomfortable position to be in, but it's a responsibility she has chosen to put herself in.

She might think it's not worth following up this behaviour but in 18 months time she will be leaving to go to uni, and the next 17 year old might not be so worldly or savvy and could be impacted by something she was able to dismiss.

I think you need to have a frank and adult conversation about this with her and explain she has a responsibility to act, and if she doesn't then unfortunately you will have to on her behalf.

100% what @Qwertyme has just said.

As an ex youth worker, I'd say he is out of line. Would he do the same if she just attended the youth group and not for work? He's a grown man and although may say he's trying to help her, which 'could' be a possibility, I still say it's a red flag. It's good that your daughter has him worked out though. Hopefully she'll keep him at arms length. If he steps up in what he's doing you need to make a complaint. Take care both.

Dave could be totally innocent or using the madness as a cover. Regardless, he's being inappropriate and if he was smart he needs to change his behaviour for his own safety, if you must take this approach as if you're doing him a favour. Asking a 17 yo for a drink seems very stupid, and makes me suspicious

What’s not straight forward? He needs reporting immediately. What’s wrong with you?

Agree with @CarpetKnees @Qwertyme @SnowdaySewday

There's no decision to make, enough people have explained your DD's responsibility to report a low level concern.

As much as you might feel anxious, I want to be clear that it doesn't mean you or DD are making a judgement that Dave has ulterior motives. That is not your role. That is for others to decide. These rules are there to protect Dave as much as the children using the service. This may well be a wake up call to management that their safeguarding training is lacking.

Yes, this is excellent advice.

There are lots of men out there who do a lot of good whilst using it as a front to groom and abuse young girls (and boys).

Look at Jimmy Savile. I'm sure many people turned a blind eye to what he was doing or minimised it because he was so loved and popular and was a national treasure doing all this great stuff and it would be a real loss to everyone if he was no longer doing all of that because someone complained about him crossing the line occasionally.

If your DD acknowledges herself that some of his behaviour is inappropriate, she has to ask herself what might be going on behind closed doors between this man and other girls. Other girls who might be younger and more vulnerable than she is. What if the way he is with her is really the mildest version of how he is all the time, and other girls are actually in danger? What if she reassures herself that "nothing actually happened, he only invited me for a drink" and goes off to university next year and then he coerces a vulnerable 15 year old into sex?

Help your DD to see that, however much she might like this man and/or be flattered by the attention, his behaviour is inappropriate and she needs to be involved in reporting it.

Even if his intentions are good he's setting himself up for trouble. At the end of the day safeguarding policies are set up not just to protect vulnerable client groups but also staff and volunteers themselves. Maybe try that line

You could have a quiet word with him. He might not think he is doing anything wrong.

But then again I remember everyone thought Jimmy Saville was wonderful … until…

if he is dodgy he might be connecting to others. Or others in the group in the past. Your daughter might be able to ask around without having some full on complaint and investigation.

in my view the safeguarding rules are sometimes a bit ott, but look at what happened in the past.

I hope he is just a slightly zany/ enthusiastic/ great with kids guy. If he is, it’s a shame that others put us in a position to have these conversations. If not however.

Go with gut feel.