Teen daughter and male youth leader…

[FeatherGold]

My daughter (year 12, now 17) volunteers at a youth club for kids with SEN. She absolutely loves it but is also hoping to get a good reference for future uni applications etc. She’s been doing this for around 2 years.

One of the group leaders (let’s call him Dave) is around 45 and is well known as a charismatic but slightly ‘mad’ figure - in that the kids all seem to love him, but he doesn’t do anything by the book. He has no regard for admin or ‘procedures’, but he’s full of energy and ideas and gets the kids doing stuff they would never have thought possible. You get the picture.

I’m worried because he messages my daughter directly on her phone, and given his position as a youth leader and the age difference, it feels very inappropriate. He’ll ask her how her exams went - stuff like that - but most recently, suggested they meet for a drink to discuss an idea he has as a project for the kids.

I’m glad she’s telling me these things and she just laughs it off as ‘It’s just Dave, everyone knows he forgets the rules and just gets carried away with ideas’. She also has no intention of meeting him alone and gives him factual answers - nothing more.

How do I deal with this? He’s so careless in his actions that part of me thinks it is just a sort of disregard for conventional rules. I’d hate to cause a fuss around someone who is considered an inspirational figure at the club. But I’m also deeply uncomfortable about him messaging my daughter. It just feels wrong.

I should add that if I raised the issue or reported him, my daughter would be furious. She loves the club, is hopeful of getting a great reference, and she would see it as a huge betrayal of trust.

My 17yr daughters driving instructor, and a leader of her club make a whatsapp or messaging that includes me…to cover themselves against these sorts of allegations. I often don’t need to join in any conversation but I can see whats being said. Can your daughter add you to the chat?

Report. Report. Report. Honestly just reading this boils my blood. Gross. He knows damn well what he’s doing

He is blatant and messages your daughter as he's done it before so is confident about his behaviour. He's created a mad Dave persona that people are happy to live with.
Those parents are probably so bloody relieved that their kids are happy, doing new things that maybe they aren't seeing things clearly. They're also probably so used to being discriminated against and being marginalized that they think it'd be wrong to think that this male is dodgy

He is breaking safeguarding rules and he will know he is. Your DD sounds like she's got him sussed, and the fact that she has told you is a clear indication that she is aware that his attention is inappropriate.

Collaboration with your daughter would be my tactic here - can she check with other volunteers if Dave has behaved in a similar way with them?

Can she 'return problem to sender': every time he messages something privately, she responds (if she's going to) on a group chat with another adult volunteer - she can always include a copy of the message he sent her, so it becomes known within the organisation he's been messaging her.

Don't forget that ignoring his messages is an option.

Can she think about the problem in terms of the potential risk he poses to the people using the group? So, if it's necessary to report as a safeguarding issue, she can do it from the perspective of protecting them not herself.

Also worth finding the volunteer code of conduct or similar document - they ought to have rules about harassment/ unwanted contact between volunteers. So she has an idea of what might be good options if he persists.

I'm a man in his early fifties and i interact with 15 to 20 year old girls & women as part of my work. I'm bloody paranoid about being inappropriate, or being seen to be. I literally consider everything that comes out of my mouth, and every action and circumstance i put myself into. It's not a big deal, it's a split second check that goes on in my head. Any man my age asking a 17 year old for drinks alone, shouldn't be in that role. It cannot have good intentions behind it. I dont buy the "crazy Dave" line for a second. If he's that oblivious he shouldn't be doing the job.

Hi, so I've been in your position and the only option is to report your concerns to the organisation safeguarding team and they will investigate further. They may deem it as harmless and insist he do some top up training or they may not.

With regards to your daughter not getting a good reference this should be protected under whistle blower policies

Please report your concerns.

As a volunteer at a sports centre I have taken safeguarding courses . Direct contact with what might be deemed “a child” via messaging goes against all safeguarding principles. Speak to the centre and ask who is their safeguarding lead or alternatively speak to your local councils safeguarding office and confidentially ask for their view on this .(don’t know whether the law alters after age 16).

I've just come back to this thread and just wanted to say again how very, very inappropriate it is for a 45 year old man to be messaging a 1 year old in this context. Rhe more I think about it, the more I struggle to believe it is innocent. Please be the grown up here and follow suitable procedures. I would also keep a very close eye on your daughter because what he is doing here to her and within the wider group looks very like grooming.

Get her to accept the drinks and then you turn up as her chaperone. That’ll be the last invitation she gets.

My flag went up with the description of how all the kids love him and he doesnt follow the rules etc yet seemingly they do things they won't for others.

He definitely has issues with boundaries.

I agree as far as safeguarding is concerned.
If you genuinely think that there is nothing untoward going on, have you thought about having a word with him yourself?

Speak to your daughter, see if she minds you having a quiet word with him in private just mentioning that she is under 18 and inviting a minor out for a drink is not a good idea. You could say it as you know its completely innocent but you wouldn't want someone else to see and think there is more to it incase it leads to trouble for him. Make it sound as though doing him a favour pointing it out.

Whilst this may well be the case, what happens when OP's daughter moves on and noone has raised this issue; leaving "Dave" to start grooming his next victim - one who isn't so good at sussing him out and holding a boundary?

I am late to this and have only read the OP's posts so apologies if these points have been made. I am a trustee of a charity which supports children with SEND and has teenage volunteers.

I don't know if this is a charity. If it is (and even if it isn't) the safeguarding policies should be readily accessible on their website. Also the trustees details should be published on their website. Massive red flag if this is not happening in the first place.

Contact the trustees and make them aware of Dave's behaviour.

If not charity, where is the governance above Dave? Who does he report to? Find that out and report to them.

I understand your daughter will not want to make a fuss etc but this is someone who is working with very vulnerable children and this behaviour is way beyond being inappropriate.

Does your DD know the SG procedure - it would never involve 'having a word with him' - she may have personal and professional obligations to report this transgression. It would be a good life lesson for her to read the objective policy and do as it requests whilst feeling the discomfort. We all need to be accountable for taking responsible uncomfortable actions at different times in our lives. Good life lesson / experinece for her.

These charismatic types are exactly the type that use that to get kids to trust them and abuse that power. If he is breaking the rules then that's highly concerning. ANYONE working with kids should be beyond cautious to make sure they are doing everything correctly.

When I was at 6th form college there was a teacher very much like Dave.

He fancied himself as an amateur photographer and took photos of all the 6th form events. My memories of exactly how it happened are quite hazy now, but he asked me if he could take some pictures of me in a field behind his house, and I said yes. He took the pictures (fully clothed) and then we went inside to look at them. He did two things then which I knew beyond a doubt were deliberate and inappropriate. One was that when he was going to open the file of pictures from his memory card he accidentally on purpose opened a folder which contained a lingerie photo shoot of a girl about my age and then said, "Oops! Didn't mean to show you that!" The other thing he did was briefly massage my shoulders as he was walking behind my chair. I got out of there as quickly as I could and made sure I was never alone with him again.

Not long afterwards, a family friend of mine who was also a teacher at my college told me that this teacher didn't have sex with students, but he systematically groomed them during their last months at college so that the day they were no longer a student anymore he could get them into bed.

I still can't believe I was naive enough to go to his house and feel very lucky that it wasn't worse.

This is a brilliant idea!

Dave can fuck right off and needs reporting, that’s it. Why would you feel conflicted? If this had happened to my DD I would not have any sort of conflict internally. I worked with students, they were all 18 plus but as in an educational setting there were no relationships allowed. It’s really very clear.

Jimmy Saville had a mad out of the box persona and he committed sex offences in plain sight!
look at the club policies and in conversation you can question his reasons why he contacted your daughter

This - I would be pretty certain Dave is grooming and throwing out ideas to see who is vulnerable. It’s wonderful your child isn’t but others will not be so fortunate. I feel you have an obligation to report a forty year old man asking a 12 year old on essentially a date particularly when he is in a position of power - with children with SEN. Abusers don’t have horns on their head, they have to be charming to groom both the young person and their parents in order to get a child alone. Please don’t be someone who turns a blind eye to this . Edit for typos!

Suggest a group whatsapp for all the staff?

Feels dodgy, I'd have mixed feelings of what to do but would probably steer midway.
Make sure screenshots of any correspondence is kept just in case he does turn creepy. I'd also look online to see if others are flagging things up (Glassdoor or general reviews). Depending on how things went would depend when & how I reported it.
From
No other dodgyness = anon email pointing out worries.
Mid dodgyness = report after DD references
Major creep = nuclear option.

When you think of well known 'wacky' people that years later people say they should have known it of a concern.

If it helps like other posters have said your DD seems level headed but I'd worry about others being it the kids or kids that have SEN and have left the group but still keep in touch.

My daughter at 11 , had a similar charismatic totally interested in all the girls and their lives in his choir. He was only 34 four kids of his own turned out he was a paedophile.
it’s not appropriate for him to be messaging her maybe have a quiet word with him and just say oh we don’t like anyone outside of the family and friends to message. Is that okay if you just don’t do that anymore?