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Social services..

285 replies

Lucas28 · 19/10/2024 19:05

apologise if this message is abit long.
I have 6 children, all aged between 12 and 6. My 8 year old son has always proved a little difficult for me to handle. His behaviour at home is really defiante. Everything is a chore, he doesn't get on well with his siblings because of his behaviour either. Alot of the time it sounds really silly but just things like he won't get dressed won't brush his teeth won't go in the bath without screaming, we take them on holiday or days out very regular and sometimes he won't join in. He poos all over my house, on the carpets, on teddy bears, wipes it on the curtains. He's pooed on my sofa. In 2021 he went through a stage of not eating, it was the time of covid and no doctor wanted to know they brushed it under the carpet because he was healthy. The school referred us to the social services who came out, did an assement on us and left.
His behaviour has got better over the years, sometimes he does revert back to his old ways. However the oast few months he has started the eating thing again, he steals food at school. The safe guardin teacher gives him spare and also he is allowed to go to her at school if he is hungry, which he has been doing every day. He then comes home and refuses to eat for me. He will pick at his tea, say it is spicy and then later on we find banana peels, crisp packets ect all hidden in his room. He steals money, he's stolen my wedding rings, car keys. Eventually he returns them or admits he has stolen them but this is something I have raised with the teachers and the safe guarding teacher and the senco teacher too.
In July I broke down at school and told the safe guarding teacher I was struggling as every day for a few weeks he has been very difficult. She made a plan with my child who when she asked why he doesn't eat at home he openly told her "I like to upset my mum" he had previously told other teachers this too and about his stealing.
I never heard anything after July. We had a great summer, we went on holiday, we did lots of days out and majority of the time my son joined in and really enjoyed the holidays with us. His eating wasn't brilliant but he wasn't poorly and he was eating enough for me to not be concerned about. However he is quite small for his age. He has been weighted and measured at school and always done back the perfect BMI. Iv mentioned to a few professionals before about his height all who have said "every child grows differently and as long as he is healthy" - he is never at the doctor & has about 3 days off school his whole life apart from when schools had bubbles ect in COVID.
However on the 26th September I attended school to drop my 4 youngest off and my 8 year old didn't want to go he was drying sayin he didn't want to see the teachers they keep asking him questions and he's upset by it, so I approached reception and asked to speak to the teacher in question. I wasn't nasty or anything I just wanted to clear things with her as we hadn't spoken since July really.
I was then asked to go into a room where 2 social workers were waiting for me, apparently they had attended my house twice that week... Once at half past 4 but we were out at football and once at half 8am but I was on the school run. She asked me a few questions and then about 15 minutes later the police turned up and arrested me for child neglect. The social worker was even gob smacked.
The accusations made against me by my son were that I dont feed him tea, I bath him in a cold bath (something I have never heard from anyone) and that I make him sleep on a sofa.
I was released on bail and so was my husband but as a result the children have gone into foster care.
It's been 3 weeks and 2 days, no social worker has shown me any reports. Iv seen my children once for an hour and a half. They mentioned on the second say they would apply for an interm court order but I haven't heard anything since. When I did see my children and the social worker she said to us all "this is just a temporary measure whilst the police do their investigations"
I have spoken to 2 of my children on the phone once. 2 of them twice.
My little boy who made these allegations has told us and the social worker he wants to come home but obviously now they have to take what he has said very serious.
He has had a medical at the hospital which said he had no marks broken bones or any signs of physical abuse. Nor has he made any allegations, yet the school have said they believe he is physically abused. They said he is quite small for his age. They took bloods and these came back he is slightly anemic so now on iron supplements. The report says he is happy, chatty, doesn't look unwell, his nails teeth clothes and hair are all in great condition.
I know everyone says it but we are genuinely a very nice family, absolutely noone we have spoken to can believe what has happened. everyone including the school compliment us on our kids appearance their manners.. they are around several other people like dance teachers, gymnastics teachers and football coaches, swimming instructors. Taekwondo instructors... All who have never raised a concern about any of my children.
Has anyone been in a similar situation to me?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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Lucas28 · 20/10/2024 10:45

FrequentNameChanger2024 · 20/10/2024 10:38

I'd not bother trying to convince people who havnt been through somthing like this. Whilst all this was going on with us I didnt tell any of my friends because people tend to think theres no smoke without fire.

But, this is so common with autistic children, but proffesionals cant say that because then abusive parents could just blame their child being ND.

Some posters have no idea what their talking about. The police CAN remove your children at the drop of at hat, they could turn up right now and take my children if they deemed them in danger or at risk. Posters are getting things mixed up, the social havnt removed your children. The police have. Theres a big difference

Yer the police removed them because of the flag from school that I was removing him that day and they thought he would be at risk.

Then because of my bail conditions the social have kept them in foster care on a section 20.

I have never said the social popped round one day and just took my children.

I also haven't told people who don't need to be told, it's scary to think people could think things.

OP posts:
Lucas28 · 20/10/2024 10:46

HollyLollyMollyJolly · 20/10/2024 10:41

I'm sorry your family is going through this. It's a terrible luck but I hope you all come out of it safe and happy. I feel so sad for your kids - this is absolutely traumatising for them!

Thankyou so much 💚

OP posts:
FrequentNameChanger2024 · 20/10/2024 10:48

This reply has been deleted

Withdrawn at the request of the user.

Yes if its SOCIAL who have removed the children but it's not, it's the POLICE. And theres a big difference. The police can remove children at the drop of a hat, they dont have to go through the same process as social services. They just have to deem the child at risk or harm.

It was the police who removed the children. Not social services, hence why social are telling OP they cannot do anything until the bail is sorted

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about these subjects:

Lucas28 · 20/10/2024 10:50

Peonies007 · 20/10/2024 10:40

Ok, I had a further look. I think this is relevant..
In emergency removal accommodation doesn't have to be discussed but should be discussed AS SOON AS REASONABLY PRACTICABLE.
SS should be discussing this with you, but are choosing not to.

Thankyou!

Yer honestly in 3 weeks she's answered the phone once to me. I have passed all info on about my kids clubs because they told me it's in their best interest to go... Yet when iv spoke to the children on the phone and their carer they have all said they there's no info passed on. The carers are asking me for things on the phone that the children are asking for from home, yer the social aren't passing this info on to me to get it together. She took a week to pass on all the school uniform I gave the carers and the children's coats.

Completely understand they have a work load but it's not my fault and they should be in I forming me much more.

OP posts:
previoussocialservices · 20/10/2024 10:50

Name change for this.

We had previous ss involvement as my husband was arrested. He had to leave the house as per his bail conditions, but I was allowed to stay with the kids in the house.

Although the accusation against my husband was serious, it took social services a couple of weeks to come for a visit.

Knowing how long it can take social services to jump into action if they believe the children aren't at risk of immediate harm, I believe there's a massive backstory to what you're telling us.

Lucas28 · 20/10/2024 10:52

FrequentNameChanger2024 · 20/10/2024 10:48

Yes if its SOCIAL who have removed the children but it's not, it's the POLICE. And theres a big difference. The police can remove children at the drop of a hat, they dont have to go through the same process as social services. They just have to deem the child at risk or harm.

It was the police who removed the children. Not social services, hence why social are telling OP they cannot do anything until the bail is sorted

Don't know how many times I have to explain this. The social havent removed them they've simply said the children can't return home to me because I'm on bail.

OP posts:
Lucas28 · 20/10/2024 10:53

previoussocialservices · 20/10/2024 10:50

Name change for this.

We had previous ss involvement as my husband was arrested. He had to leave the house as per his bail conditions, but I was allowed to stay with the kids in the house.

Although the accusation against my husband was serious, it took social services a couple of weeks to come for a visit.

Knowing how long it can take social services to jump into action if they believe the children aren't at risk of immediate harm, I believe there's a massive backstory to what you're telling us.

There is no back story ..

It's not the social workers holding it up. I am on bail whilst the police do their investigations. So the social said they have their hands tied.

OP posts:
previoussocialservices · 20/10/2024 10:55

FrequentNameChanger2024 · 20/10/2024 10:48

Yes if its SOCIAL who have removed the children but it's not, it's the POLICE. And theres a big difference. The police can remove children at the drop of a hat, they dont have to go through the same process as social services. They just have to deem the child at risk or harm.

It was the police who removed the children. Not social services, hence why social are telling OP they cannot do anything until the bail is sorted

But the police and social services work very much together and base decisions on each other's information.

ThatCalmHelper · 20/10/2024 10:56

Lucas28 · 20/10/2024 10:15

Exactly... When people are arrested it is sometimes because they have been accused of something by someone else. So they will arrest them and question them about what they've been accused off? So they can arrest you. Especially in these circumstances when they think the child is at risk that day.

In the UK the police can arrest you purely on "suspicion" which is a pretty broad church - they do not have to be in possession of any evidence you did anything wrong.
Many people get arrested, released on police bail and then nothing further happens, no charges are ever brought - and often no further info.
I was arrested many years ago with a mate, on suspicion of a public order offence (which we were not involved in), released on police bail, bail expired, never heard anything further...

Lucas28 · 20/10/2024 10:57

previoussocialservices · 20/10/2024 10:55

But the police and social services work very much together and base decisions on each other's information.

And noone is saying they don't.
However I have asked me social worker if she's spoken to the police and she said she's not heard back yet.

OP posts:
Lucas28 · 20/10/2024 10:58

ThatCalmHelper · 20/10/2024 10:56

In the UK the police can arrest you purely on "suspicion" which is a pretty broad church - they do not have to be in possession of any evidence you did anything wrong.
Many people get arrested, released on police bail and then nothing further happens, no charges are ever brought - and often no further info.
I was arrested many years ago with a mate, on suspicion of a public order offence (which we were not involved in), released on police bail, bail expired, never heard anything further...

Exactly!
They don't have to have evidence to arrest you. They arrested you because there is suspicion you have done something!

OP posts:
previoussocialservices · 20/10/2024 11:02

Lucas28 · 20/10/2024 10:58

Exactly!
They don't have to have evidence to arrest you. They arrested you because there is suspicion you have done something!

You're right, they don't need evidence to arrest you, but I don't understand why they arrested your husband as well and put him on bail if the accusation was against you?

Normally your husband would be deemed a safe, protective person and the children would be allowed to stay with him.

Peonies007 · 20/10/2024 11:04

Lucas28 · 20/10/2024 10:58

Exactly!
They don't have to have evidence to arrest you. They arrested you because there is suspicion you have done something!

Correct.
You could be walking down the street in the night. Police stop you and ask you 'why are you out at night'?
Perhaps there was a spite ot crime in the area. You can choose not to tell them. They do stop and search. They could arrest you on suspicion of xyz. That doesn't mean you committed crime, just that there is a suspicion of.
Suspicion and charge are two different things. Lots of people are arrested, not many charged.

Lucas28 · 20/10/2024 11:05

previoussocialservices · 20/10/2024 11:02

You're right, they don't need evidence to arrest you, but I don't understand why they arrested your husband as well and put him on bail if the accusation was against you?

Normally your husband would be deemed a safe, protective person and the children would be allowed to stay with him.

Because he lives in my house and if I'm not feeding my child. Throwing him in cold baths and making him sleep on a sofa which is what my child accused me of, them he would obviously know I have done all that & not protected his own child either?

OP posts:
maudelovesharold · 20/10/2024 11:06

In one post you described your DS 8 and then having had to take your four younger kids to school.

No she didn’t! What she said was

However on the 26th September I attended school to drop my 4 youngest off and my 8 year old didn't want to go

Her four youngest children - including the 8 year old. She did not say her four younger (than the 8yr old) children. This just highlights to me how small inaccuracies and misunderstandings can skew things in a big way. And not just on MN.

Lucas28 · 20/10/2024 11:07

Peonies007 · 20/10/2024 11:04

Correct.
You could be walking down the street in the night. Police stop you and ask you 'why are you out at night'?
Perhaps there was a spite ot crime in the area. You can choose not to tell them. They do stop and search. They could arrest you on suspicion of xyz. That doesn't mean you committed crime, just that there is a suspicion of.
Suspicion and charge are two different things. Lots of people are arrested, not many charged.

Exactly. And unfortunately it takes time for them to investigate or drop the bail because they have more than one case.

OP posts:
Lucas28 · 20/10/2024 11:10

maudelovesharold · 20/10/2024 11:06

In one post you described your DS 8 and then having had to take your four younger kids to school.

No she didn’t! What she said was

However on the 26th September I attended school to drop my 4 youngest off and my 8 year old didn't want to go

Her four youngest children - including the 8 year old. She did not say her four younger (than the 8yr old) children. This just highlights to me how small inaccuracies and misunderstandings can skew things in a big way. And not just on MN.

Thankyou!!

This actually is an example of people making assumptions based on things I have said or anyone says and getting the wrong end of the stick.

Read it in a totally different way to how i meant it to done across - which is fine. Not her fault at all but didn't need to be rude with her reply she could just ask me to clear it up before saying I shouldn't of had 4 children after him.

OP posts:
Peonies007 · 20/10/2024 11:13

Lucas28 · 20/10/2024 11:07

Exactly. And unfortunately it takes time for them to investigate or drop the bail because they have more than one case.

Definitely get the ball rolling on checking where Police are with investigation. They won't go into details but should be able to say.. we have done preliminary work, it's now with xyz to review or similar.
Also write to SS, asking for the progress on voluntary accommodation AND contact. Start recording absolutely everything, including any calls.
SS hands aren't tied. If you revoke s20, this will then turn it into SS issue. They will have to ask Judge for removal and they will need to base in on some proper evidence.
Specially if it's not in kids interest to be separated and there is someone to look after them.
Clear it with lawyer, but I would start to be a bit more forceful.

FrequentNameChanger2024 · 20/10/2024 11:20

Lucas28

On your bail conditions you should have a police email address. Email them and ask them about varying your bail conditions,

Also, try and get in touch with the manager of social services. That's what I did as we had several temporary social workers throughout those 40 days and ended up being easier speaking directly to the manager.

Also, any conversations you have with social, back them up with an email, I cant think of the proper wording but basically just email them a copy of your conversation to confirm conversation

Get the proof you have of you contacting people for support ect, do you have any personal conversations on social media ect to back up your childs behaviour? GP, cahms ect

I sent the police a lot of conversations I'd had with school, friends and family over the years to show a history of DD's behaviour

I forgot to say that my bail conditions were also 3 months but thankfully sorted after 40 days

I know its stressful, but the police have to get evidence that these things have happened, I was so so worried throughout all of this because it was just my word against DD's. There was absolutely no evidence I had ever caused her any harm but I had mountains of evidence to show I'd been trying to get her help for years

Lucas28 · 20/10/2024 11:32

FrequentNameChanger2024 · 20/10/2024 11:20

Lucas28

On your bail conditions you should have a police email address. Email them and ask them about varying your bail conditions,

Also, try and get in touch with the manager of social services. That's what I did as we had several temporary social workers throughout those 40 days and ended up being easier speaking directly to the manager.

Also, any conversations you have with social, back them up with an email, I cant think of the proper wording but basically just email them a copy of your conversation to confirm conversation

Get the proof you have of you contacting people for support ect, do you have any personal conversations on social media ect to back up your childs behaviour? GP, cahms ect

I sent the police a lot of conversations I'd had with school, friends and family over the years to show a history of DD's behaviour

I forgot to say that my bail conditions were also 3 months but thankfully sorted after 40 days

I know its stressful, but the police have to get evidence that these things have happened, I was so so worried throughout all of this because it was just my word against DD's. There was absolutely no evidence I had ever caused her any harm but I had mountains of evidence to show I'd been trying to get her help for years

Thankyou I will do that.
I just assumed I couldn't get in touch with the police. Wel actually I asked abd was advised not to push them.

Yer I'm going to get lots of things together. Am I able to get character witnesses ect? I have so many photos of my child happy ... Photos of him sat on al inclusive holidays stuffing his face, meals we take then out too. Picnics in summer. As much as he can say I don't feed him, I have things to say I do. Obviously don't have photos of every single meal. I have videos I have taken of him refusing his tea at home sayin he doesn't like it or "I'm not eating it" .... I feel like my child isn't saying anything nice about us to the social but he isn't being asked he's only being asked about negative things. & I'm hoping the medical which says he is presented well and is only slightly anemic isn't enough for them to say that's a result done not feeding him. Although he has gained weight since being out of my care but he won't have any control issues over eating for them yet.

I'm glad things worked out for you, I'm really praying they do for me too.

OP posts:
Lucas28 · 20/10/2024 11:35

Peonies007 · 20/10/2024 11:13

Definitely get the ball rolling on checking where Police are with investigation. They won't go into details but should be able to say.. we have done preliminary work, it's now with xyz to review or similar.
Also write to SS, asking for the progress on voluntary accommodation AND contact. Start recording absolutely everything, including any calls.
SS hands aren't tied. If you revoke s20, this will then turn it into SS issue. They will have to ask Judge for removal and they will need to base in on some proper evidence.
Specially if it's not in kids interest to be separated and there is someone to look after them.
Clear it with lawyer, but I would start to be a bit more forceful.

Thankyou I will definitely do so!

I'm so unsure as to what I want to do with revoking my consent to S20. Although the solicitor advised to do so by 23rd, I also can't help but wonder if the social aren't takin me to court because they really are just waiting for the police? If they could meet the threshold to remove my children without police involvement surely they would of taken me to court by now?

Id rather work with the social instead of against them. I'm actually hoping they can help me in the future.

OP posts:
TheSnugHare · 20/10/2024 11:38

I feel like it would be helpful to let you know that autistic children can say their parents aren’t feeding them when really, they mean their parents aren’t feeding them what want to eat. He might have sensory issues with food that you are unaware of.

Lucas28 · 20/10/2024 11:46

TheSnugHare · 20/10/2024 11:38

I feel like it would be helpful to let you know that autistic children can say their parents aren’t feeding them when really, they mean their parents aren’t feeding them what want to eat. He might have sensory issues with food that you are unaware of.

Thankyou for that.
Yer so when he says I'm not feeding him he could literally mean anything. Like sometimes iv not let him have desert if he hasnt attempted any dinner. Or sometimes if he has been really naughty I haven't let him have treats or sweets. I remember one time he spent the whole day kicking off spitting ect so I didn't buy him an ice-cream and he told everyone about it, obviously to a child it is a massive deal but to me I was just trying to stick to my guns.

The same with the bath. I would never bath him in a cold bath but.... Is it cold to him? But then when you turn hot water tap on he screams it's too hot and burning. Even though I know it's not burning or remotely hot enough.

I probably have let him down by not pushing it. The spectrum is so wide and when it comes to sensory issues, they did mention maybe he has sensory issues with water Which would go with the bath situation, however he is okay in swimming pools sometimes like when we went to turkey, but some times wont go near them. He did swimming lessons perfectly okay but would scream after... Then we take all our children swimming on a Wednesday evening, not lessons any pre as they have passed but just to spend time and keep it up... But he screams the whole time and sometimes result in me and him sitting out... Which I can't help feel is what he wants.

Same with food. They said before he could have sensory issues with food. He shouts boiled rice is Spicey... But in a restaurant or an all inclusive buffet he will eat ANYTHING.

OP posts:
Peonies007 · 20/10/2024 11:46

Lucas28 · 20/10/2024 11:35

Thankyou I will definitely do so!

I'm so unsure as to what I want to do with revoking my consent to S20. Although the solicitor advised to do so by 23rd, I also can't help but wonder if the social aren't takin me to court because they really are just waiting for the police? If they could meet the threshold to remove my children without police involvement surely they would of taken me to court by now?

Id rather work with the social instead of against them. I'm actually hoping they can help me in the future.

The way to look at it is like this.
Police could have removed them for 72hrs.
After that SS would have had to go to Court to keep them if you didn't consent to s20.
Do they have any actual evidence? I don't think so.
Husband says Police are often used in cases like yours because SS don't really have any power of entry. They could ask Court for it but they would need really good evidence.
Normally Police turn up and check on kids quickly, but you got arrested, which slightly complicates situation. In which case you should have been asked for any relatives they could stay at.

SS will be gathering evidence - school and medical mainly.
Did you ever raise any concerns with school in writing? Anything in writing from GP?
Do you have access to NHS online to check what's written about your child from previous involvement?
Can neighbours, family, friends or extracurricular teacher vouch for you? Use today to collect as much evidence as you can.
You will discover some insignificant (at time) paperwork somewhere.
Write a SAR to school, Dr (if no access to NHS online), SS.
If Police haven't done much and you find this evidence, I would definitely send it over.
Get some private paediatrician specialist in autism (who also works in NHS) to assess your child.

SomeFinElse · 20/10/2024 11:47

FriendlyNeighbourhoodAccountant · 19/10/2024 23:21

Why are you derailing the thread asking pointless questions about the number of children since they've already been born? What do you gain by kicking someone when they're down?

I’m trying to unpick where some of DS’s challenging behaviour (distress) may be coming from. Wasn’t that kind of the point of this? Or was it all supposed to be: “poor OP, victim of a smear campaign by the wicked ‘Social’ ?)

If the environment is problematic (some may argue having had 6 children under 6 is an unhealthy environment for those children’s psychological needs) then I’m not about to contribute to OP’s faux-innocent ‘everything is fine, it’s all complete misunderstanding’ narrative.

Believe me, there’s always a lot more to such things, and I think it actively unhelpful for the children involved to have people jumping on the parent’s deluded bandwagon and taking everything that’s said at face value.

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