Social services..

[Lucas28]

apologise if this message is abit long.
I have 6 children, all aged between 12 and 6. My 8 year old son has always proved a little difficult for me to handle. His behaviour at home is really defiante. Everything is a chore, he doesn't get on well with his siblings because of his behaviour either. Alot of the time it sounds really silly but just things like he won't get dressed won't brush his teeth won't go in the bath without screaming, we take them on holiday or days out very regular and sometimes he won't join in. He poos all over my house, on the carpets, on teddy bears, wipes it on the curtains. He's pooed on my sofa. In 2021 he went through a stage of not eating, it was the time of covid and no doctor wanted to know they brushed it under the carpet because he was healthy. The school referred us to the social services who came out, did an assement on us and left.
His behaviour has got better over the years, sometimes he does revert back to his old ways. However the oast few months he has started the eating thing again, he steals food at school. The safe guardin teacher gives him spare and also he is allowed to go to her at school if he is hungry, which he has been doing every day. He then comes home and refuses to eat for me. He will pick at his tea, say it is spicy and then later on we find banana peels, crisp packets ect all hidden in his room. He steals money, he's stolen my wedding rings, car keys. Eventually he returns them or admits he has stolen them but this is something I have raised with the teachers and the safe guarding teacher and the senco teacher too.
In July I broke down at school and told the safe guarding teacher I was struggling as every day for a few weeks he has been very difficult. She made a plan with my child who when she asked why he doesn't eat at home he openly told her "I like to upset my mum" he had previously told other teachers this too and about his stealing.
I never heard anything after July. We had a great summer, we went on holiday, we did lots of days out and majority of the time my son joined in and really enjoyed the holidays with us. His eating wasn't brilliant but he wasn't poorly and he was eating enough for me to not be concerned about. However he is quite small for his age. He has been weighted and measured at school and always done back the perfect BMI. Iv mentioned to a few professionals before about his height all who have said "every child grows differently and as long as he is healthy" - he is never at the doctor & has about 3 days off school his whole life apart from when schools had bubbles ect in COVID.
However on the 26th September I attended school to drop my 4 youngest off and my 8 year old didn't want to go he was drying sayin he didn't want to see the teachers they keep asking him questions and he's upset by it, so I approached reception and asked to speak to the teacher in question. I wasn't nasty or anything I just wanted to clear things with her as we hadn't spoken since July really.
I was then asked to go into a room where 2 social workers were waiting for me, apparently they had attended my house twice that week... Once at half past 4 but we were out at football and once at half 8am but I was on the school run. She asked me a few questions and then about 15 minutes later the police turned up and arrested me for child neglect. The social worker was even gob smacked.
The accusations made against me by my son were that I dont feed him tea, I bath him in a cold bath (something I have never heard from anyone) and that I make him sleep on a sofa.
I was released on bail and so was my husband but as a result the children have gone into foster care.
It's been 3 weeks and 2 days, no social worker has shown me any reports. Iv seen my children once for an hour and a half. They mentioned on the second say they would apply for an interm court order but I haven't heard anything since. When I did see my children and the social worker she said to us all "this is just a temporary measure whilst the police do their investigations"
I have spoken to 2 of my children on the phone once. 2 of them twice.
My little boy who made these allegations has told us and the social worker he wants to come home but obviously now they have to take what he has said very serious.
He has had a medical at the hospital which said he had no marks broken bones or any signs of physical abuse. Nor has he made any allegations, yet the school have said they believe he is physically abused. They said he is quite small for his age. They took bloods and these came back he is slightly anemic so now on iron supplements. The report says he is happy, chatty, doesn't look unwell, his nails teeth clothes and hair are all in great condition.
I know everyone says it but we are genuinely a very nice family, absolutely noone we have spoken to can believe what has happened. everyone including the school compliment us on our kids appearance their manners.. they are around several other people like dance teachers, gymnastics teachers and football coaches, swimming instructors. Taekwondo instructors... All who have never raised a concern about any of my children.
Has anyone been in a similar situation to me?

Definitely autistic.

And I do appreciate what you're saying and trying to unpick his behaviour. If you have read majority of these posts I have never said the social worker is wicked or anything about her at all.

Are you referring to the social having no evidence to remove them ? Sorry just wanted to clear it up. It does make sense as to why they are still on a section 20 and they havent applied to court.

They have the medical and school report.

I will definitely send things over to the police. Naive maybe but because they haven't asked me anything I didn't realise I could just sent them it all.

Autistic children also can’t actually associate their punishment with the crime. Punishments don’t work on autistic children and they think you’re just being nasty. There is information online about why this is. There’s also books on understanding how autistic children think and how best to parent them.

Maybe OP isn't saying the entire thing or maybe she isn't aware of the whole picture herself.
Those thing can be decided on evidence though. Is she guilty in eyes of a law? Nope, not yet.
Is she guilty of those things she is accused of? I don't think so. I have many, many friends with SEN and we are pretty much on rotating involvement with SS.

Example yesterday
Husband took 3 of ours to woods, with sandy area.
They became totally filthy. Eldest, autistic one hates wet clothes and sand combo, so stripped himself to his underpants in car park.
He arrived to our home, shouting and screaming from excitement. He has a big bruise on because he is very clumsy and constantly ends up with some. He chooses to wear flip flops in winter quite a bit and never feels cold. Of course we suggest he wears coat and normal shoes but he is almost 11 and you can't force him.
If you'd ask him about the situation, he would say.. I don't have any clothes.
Or I prefer to be naked.
Put all this together and make it into something else entirely. Our neighbours know him though, he is eccentric, but if you don't, you will draw wrong conclusion.

Get your solicitor to send it. More official that way.

Thankyou so much.

It is hard because no professional round him sees what I see. My sister who is a teacher has seen it and my cousin who we have spent alot of time with and holidayed with.. has always said if he was at her school he would of been on some plan. Unfortunately not all schools are the same are they.

Yer thankyou, makes sense :)

Also in reply to this I can say I have lots of people who can vouch for me. All previous teachers at school have never raised any concerns. When I have spoken to them about his behaviour they have tried to get sen teachers at school to help us but nothing has come of it.

We also have a big network of support and lots of people have seen the way he refuses food or to do things with us. And his tantrums.

I am open to telling the whole story. I don't know anyone on here.. I have answered all questions people have asked me too. I'm not going to lie, I'm asking for genuine advice.

Noone has to believe I'm not guilty, noone knows me but if I was guilty I wouldn't be on here for these answers. I haven't actually asked anyone to believe I'm innocent I just wanted some advice from the police side of it. I fully understand why the social have my children. I fully understand they would be concerned about what my child said... Otherwise would they be doing their jobs?

I just don't think they act quickly or communicate well and seem in no rush. And maybe using the police bail conditions are their safety net as to why they aren't rushing things along.

Yer exactly that with your child... On the outside my child looks like the odd one out when it comes to our of school activities. They all okay football 4 times a week, my daughter dances and does gymnastics. My 8 year old has done swimming lessons tried taekwondo... He has tried football but he cried alot and didn't join in, he wouldn't wear the football kit which he needed too because it was too cold.. even in summer.. (he always always has a jacket or coat) so we stopped takin him. You ask him why he's upset and he says because all my sisters and brothers do activities and I don't but he doesn't go into detail as to why or doesn't or the fact he has actually tried loads of things. So the social/school take it as I favour my other children because they don't question me about it and let me explain.

I don’t think the person you were replying to was saying you were doing the things your child was accusing you of but that he has unmet physiological needs and there are things going on surrounding that. I still think he is autistic and he behaves the way he does because of that and he isn’t getting the support and understanding he needs. I know you tried to get support for it earlier and got nowhere which is shit, but maybe everyone involved might look at all the evidence and suspect it themselves, try and gather all the evidence you have, read books on autism etc. there’s a lot you can do to support him yourself.
Autistic children have a hard time speaking in context and knowing how things will come across to others. They can’t understand that others don’t think the same way they do or have the same information as them. it’s a communication deficit

In which case you can disprove that because you will have receipt saying you have paid for the lesson etc. You offered and paid, he didn't want to go. Gather all your evidence. Anything that they can try to say, you can disprove, there is no problem then.
Just try to think of all the allegation they can come up with.

And often even parents aren't explicit enough (I still make mistakes and have been parenting him 10 years. Read all the possible books etc).
For example saying.. your brother doesn't want to play with you right now isn't specific. I got quite annoyed yesterday because he kept at it for good half hour, just pestering him.
I said something like.. he just wants to be left alone! Maybe he willl play with you tomorrow instead.
His response (angry). BUT NO ONE TOLD ME!
In his mind not right now, means not right now, but in 2 min isn't right now IYSWIM.

Awww I know it wasnt aimed at the person I was replying too and I apologise @Peonies007 if it did come across that way. This user has been nothing. It really helpful to me.si was just replying to the part where she replied to the other user.

Thanks for your advice.
I have gone from thinking autistic. To maybe it's attention. To even maybe my own child just doesn't like us. Then back to autistic. It's really hard!

If you have solid family members willing to care for the children there is no reason for them to remain in foster care. The local authority can complete a viability assessment in a matter of days (sometimes hours) the fact that you have signed a section 20 is potentially being used inappropriately. The s20 and bail conditions are not directly linked even though it appears you seem to think they have to be. If agreement cannot be reached between all parties - police/social care/family the LA have to obtain an emergency court date. That can be granted very very quickly - you would be well advised to allow things to go before a family court judge, firstly all your legal costs will be paid by legal aid, secondly they have powers to direct what is in the children's best interests and get above the agency issues. While a S20 is in place the social workers will say they must abide by the police bail conditions. The police will say they are investigating and cannot compromise a potential criminal investigation. It can become an impasse.

I do not want to generate paranoia, but from your story - someone somewhere has indicated there could be more than what you are saying. The police would not have acted without a referral raising serious concerns, and foster care would not have been considered over family without suggestions that it would be unsafe to leave them with you. A positive thing about going into family court is everyone has to provide statements and evidence which you get to see then you know what you are really dealing with. I would not leave this travelling along in the realm of 'voluntary care and consent'.

Yes that's true.

I just don't like how they seem to be gathering all this "evidence" on me, putting things like that in reports without actually speaking to me and finding out why he doesn't have a club ect.
They should be speaking to me about home life before they write up a report to share with courts and police on me. It's like they build a case, then everyone has the persona of you and you have to prove you're not that person. But if the social spoke to me first maybe they would have a better understanding.
My child goes abroad twice a year, he's been Disneyland ect ... But he's told safe guard his dream is to go on an areoplane. Not sure how this is even something that can flag up anyway, I didn't even went on a plane till I was 12!

I'm not offended. I can read in the context etc 😀

The social have openly admitted they would rather my children to go family or here at home with my aunty. The reason they went to foster care is because I was in the police station and hadn't had a chance to provide anywhere for the to go. The day after the social came to visit me and I asked about family. They told me to give them names and numbers. Which I did in their hand and via email, they said they would check these people out and they would visit them. Not one of the 9 couples who's information I passed along have been contacted. I have emailed every day regarding this. My solicitor has now gave them a deadline to do it before I revoke my S20.
It's not because there's more to it l, it's because the social aren't acting quickly and keep fobbing us off.

It's bc I think they have no evidence and thia will become their evidence, which willbe presented as truth.
That's why you need to start to do SAR at al those places. They will have snippets of what is going on (lots of redactions), but will hopefully provide some things.

And this is exactly what I am worried about.

Once the police have seen the reports from social and school ect... Do you/your husband think the police will call me in for questioning again or just wait till the bail date?

That's b**s. Not from you, but from them. They aren't doing their job and your kids are suffering.
Is in anywhere written down? Maybe they said it ti save themselves hours of work applying to court. I wouldn't trust them, although obviously you should work with them.
SS are underfunded and most cash goes on private care homes, but that's not your problem.
Like PP said, it wil drag on if you let it.

I don't think it will come to anything with Police but I would start to worry that with such limited contact with you they will aokn start to claim 'x is much much better, isn't asking for mum (bc he doesn't realise he can)', which then turns into another world of pain.

I know. Everyone thinks they are professional ect but it's really not always the case. I received no medical I formation about my son. My 8 year old was the one who told me he has hospital appointments ect.. then when I email and ask the social she doesn't reply.

She only ever emails me if it's something they need. They never reply to me if it's a question I have.

I have it on email where iv said "as requested here at the names" ect... Like contact the fact they didn't arrange contact for 3 weeks is beyond a joke. She would tell us 'were applying for it but the centre is really busy" it's a joke really.

I am quite lucky that the carers have all said my children cry for me and want to come home.

The social have also told me they all want to come home and they can see the close bond we all have. My little girl is 10 and she is really struggling to be away from my 12 year old son they are best friends.

That's good. They will ask foster carers to write their take as well.