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Parenting

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Social services..

285 replies

Lucas28 · 19/10/2024 19:05

apologise if this message is abit long.
I have 6 children, all aged between 12 and 6. My 8 year old son has always proved a little difficult for me to handle. His behaviour at home is really defiante. Everything is a chore, he doesn't get on well with his siblings because of his behaviour either. Alot of the time it sounds really silly but just things like he won't get dressed won't brush his teeth won't go in the bath without screaming, we take them on holiday or days out very regular and sometimes he won't join in. He poos all over my house, on the carpets, on teddy bears, wipes it on the curtains. He's pooed on my sofa. In 2021 he went through a stage of not eating, it was the time of covid and no doctor wanted to know they brushed it under the carpet because he was healthy. The school referred us to the social services who came out, did an assement on us and left.
His behaviour has got better over the years, sometimes he does revert back to his old ways. However the oast few months he has started the eating thing again, he steals food at school. The safe guardin teacher gives him spare and also he is allowed to go to her at school if he is hungry, which he has been doing every day. He then comes home and refuses to eat for me. He will pick at his tea, say it is spicy and then later on we find banana peels, crisp packets ect all hidden in his room. He steals money, he's stolen my wedding rings, car keys. Eventually he returns them or admits he has stolen them but this is something I have raised with the teachers and the safe guarding teacher and the senco teacher too.
In July I broke down at school and told the safe guarding teacher I was struggling as every day for a few weeks he has been very difficult. She made a plan with my child who when she asked why he doesn't eat at home he openly told her "I like to upset my mum" he had previously told other teachers this too and about his stealing.
I never heard anything after July. We had a great summer, we went on holiday, we did lots of days out and majority of the time my son joined in and really enjoyed the holidays with us. His eating wasn't brilliant but he wasn't poorly and he was eating enough for me to not be concerned about. However he is quite small for his age. He has been weighted and measured at school and always done back the perfect BMI. Iv mentioned to a few professionals before about his height all who have said "every child grows differently and as long as he is healthy" - he is never at the doctor & has about 3 days off school his whole life apart from when schools had bubbles ect in COVID.
However on the 26th September I attended school to drop my 4 youngest off and my 8 year old didn't want to go he was drying sayin he didn't want to see the teachers they keep asking him questions and he's upset by it, so I approached reception and asked to speak to the teacher in question. I wasn't nasty or anything I just wanted to clear things with her as we hadn't spoken since July really.
I was then asked to go into a room where 2 social workers were waiting for me, apparently they had attended my house twice that week... Once at half past 4 but we were out at football and once at half 8am but I was on the school run. She asked me a few questions and then about 15 minutes later the police turned up and arrested me for child neglect. The social worker was even gob smacked.
The accusations made against me by my son were that I dont feed him tea, I bath him in a cold bath (something I have never heard from anyone) and that I make him sleep on a sofa.
I was released on bail and so was my husband but as a result the children have gone into foster care.
It's been 3 weeks and 2 days, no social worker has shown me any reports. Iv seen my children once for an hour and a half. They mentioned on the second say they would apply for an interm court order but I haven't heard anything since. When I did see my children and the social worker she said to us all "this is just a temporary measure whilst the police do their investigations"
I have spoken to 2 of my children on the phone once. 2 of them twice.
My little boy who made these allegations has told us and the social worker he wants to come home but obviously now they have to take what he has said very serious.
He has had a medical at the hospital which said he had no marks broken bones or any signs of physical abuse. Nor has he made any allegations, yet the school have said they believe he is physically abused. They said he is quite small for his age. They took bloods and these came back he is slightly anemic so now on iron supplements. The report says he is happy, chatty, doesn't look unwell, his nails teeth clothes and hair are all in great condition.
I know everyone says it but we are genuinely a very nice family, absolutely noone we have spoken to can believe what has happened. everyone including the school compliment us on our kids appearance their manners.. they are around several other people like dance teachers, gymnastics teachers and football coaches, swimming instructors. Taekwondo instructors... All who have never raised a concern about any of my children.
Has anyone been in a similar situation to me?

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Lucas28 · 20/10/2024 10:17

FrequentNameChanger2024 · 20/10/2024 10:10

They were allowed to arrest you because it's a safe guarding issue. A child had said you had hurt them. So they have to look into it

When my DD said the teacher hit her, despite there being a room full of witnesses/ lado investigation the police still asked me if I wanted to press charges. I said no. But if I'd of said yes they would of arrested the teacher

Yer I completely understand.

I just think it's unfair how long it takes. I know they have a heavy work load ect but to bail someone with bail conditions for 3 months meaning the children are removed, I just wish they could hurry along. Especially if the social at working with them as they say. Suppose it all depends what the social have wrote in their report too.

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DelilahRay · 20/10/2024 10:17

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Peonies007 · 20/10/2024 10:19

FrequentNameChanger2024 · 20/10/2024 10:08

Yes they can 🤦‍♀️ the police have the power to remove children if they deem them in danger

And anyone can get arrested without evidence, look at historical abuse ect. Rarely any evidence but people still get arrested and sent to prison

Theres a post on here about a womans ex being sent to prison for assaulting her despite her having no evidence, she thinks it was down to her witness impact statement

That's correct.
Being arrested is being on SUSPICION of (not much needed to arrest someone)
Being charged is a two way test and needs EVIDENCE

https://www.libertyhumanrights.org.uk/advice_information/police-powers-of-arrest-2/

www.cps.gov.uk/about-cps/how-a-criminal-case-works

Police powers of arrest - Liberty

What can you be arrested for? What makes an arrest "necessary"? Do the police always have to use handcuffs?

https://www.libertyhumanrights.org.uk/advice_information/police-powers-of-arrest-2

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DelilahRay · 20/10/2024 10:20

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Lucas28 · 20/10/2024 10:20

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They don't think my child has any needs!
They think he is a perfectly well behaved little boy and they can't get there ebad round why a 8 year old child with no ASD or sen needs would say such thing.

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DelilahRay · 20/10/2024 10:23

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Lucas28 · 20/10/2024 10:24

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Being on bail whilst the police do investigations is a standard procedure for alot of cases. Standard bail conditions last 3 months.

The whole point of being on bail is so they can get the reports from social, his medical, the children... Which they could use as evidence or drop the case.

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Mischance · 20/10/2024 10:26

It is a sad situation but you need to bide your time. As others have pointed out, the threshold for removing a whole family of children from their parents' care in this way is very high and they will have their reasons. It is usually an accumulation of concerns over time.

Lucas28 · 20/10/2024 10:26

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No.
My school just cross the T'S and dot the I's. My 11 year old child also had no needs in their eyes. They wrote reports to doctors ect. 3 weeks being into secondary school I had a meeting with the SEN teacher and he has been referred to speech therapy and occupational therapist.
Some schools just don't care as much as others. My child isn't pooing all over school, they don't care.

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HollyLollyMollyJolly · 20/10/2024 10:26

Perhaps with all the complaints, concerns and behavioural issues, instead of support they've built up a "wider picture" that's made them come to the conclusion that your children need to be removed from the home - temporarily at least. It's the only reason I can see for how seemingly extreme it's been on what seems to be lightweight series of incidents. It's obvious you've not been made aware of what and how much they have and this could have been the straw that broke the camel's back.

I can't say if they're wrong or right but from you've posted, it all seems so unfair to the other children at least.

Peonies007 · 20/10/2024 10:27

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It clearly went wrong somewhere.
Maybe Police already investigated and just didn't update anyone. It happens.
As far as I can make out, the OP boluntarily asked to remove her children. She could ask for them back but bail conditions prevent her at the moment from looking after them.
So, if relatives can accommodate, it could be simple to fix.
Previously OP said she suspect autism. I have one at home and unless you ask very detailed and specific questions it's very easy for someone to get wrong picture.

Lucas28 · 20/10/2024 10:28

Mischance · 20/10/2024 10:26

It is a sad situation but you need to bide your time. As others have pointed out, the threshold for removing a whole family of children from their parents' care in this way is very high and they will have their reasons. It is usually an accumulation of concerns over time.

Yes, hopefully they get their reports to me soon as it's not fair to have these concerns and reasons without telling me what they are or ask me about them. My social worker has had 3 weeks to come out and speak to me about any concerns she has. She's however just said we need to wait for the police.

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DelilahRay · 20/10/2024 10:28

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Lucas28 · 20/10/2024 10:31

HollyLollyMollyJolly · 20/10/2024 10:26

Perhaps with all the complaints, concerns and behavioural issues, instead of support they've built up a "wider picture" that's made them come to the conclusion that your children need to be removed from the home - temporarily at least. It's the only reason I can see for how seemingly extreme it's been on what seems to be lightweight series of incidents. It's obvious you've not been made aware of what and how much they have and this could have been the straw that broke the camel's back.

I can't say if they're wrong or right but from you've posted, it all seems so unfair to the other children at least.

Yes perhaps.

I'm not saying they're wrong either, I'd they concerns they have concerns ... I'm not sure why alot of people think iv done on her to slag social down (not you btw) I haven't said anything about them apart from they are slack at their jobs and communication.

I actually just came on to ask if anyone has an experience with the police like me and their out come ect.

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FrequentNameChanger2024 · 20/10/2024 10:32

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Yes, if its social who remove the children. But in this case, it was the police who removed the children and then the OP voluntary ( dont think I've spelt that right 😅 ) signed a section 20 so they could temporarily be placed with foster parents

The police could come to your house right now and remove your children if they deemed them at risk

HollyLollyMollyJolly · 20/10/2024 10:32

Lucas28 · 20/10/2024 10:26

No.
My school just cross the T'S and dot the I's. My 11 year old child also had no needs in their eyes. They wrote reports to doctors ect. 3 weeks being into secondary school I had a meeting with the SEN teacher and he has been referred to speech therapy and occupational therapist.
Some schools just don't care as much as others. My child isn't pooing all over school, they don't care.

From this, even though your child’s previous school had no concerns, it would look as if they do have needs that have not been met. Your 8 year old clearly has additional needs. Whether the school took it up or not, the parents would be expected to do something outside of them. This could be part of the "neglect" wider issue. Perhaps medical neglect in their eyes? You may have to prove that you've sought help from all angles besides waiting for school. Like gone to the GP for referral to child development services, CAMHS, etc. As this has happened, they'd blame the parents even though the schools failed too.

Lucas28 · 20/10/2024 10:34

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I know of some families who seriously need help and their children really are neglected yet social havent removed them.

I know you don't know me and don't have to believe me, but I'm not sat here saying my kids are the best looked after kids in the world and I'm the best mum ever and my children were "snatched" ... I just wanted to speak to some people who have had similar situations to me that is all.

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Morph22010 · 20/10/2024 10:35

Lucas28 · 19/10/2024 23:33

With all due respect my children are fine. My children are incredibly bright, they have fantastic attendance at school. They have travelled all over. They have had so many experiences in life. They want for nothing. They attend so many regular out of school activities. We are always praised for them and the way we have brought them up.

It is one child out of 6 who has behavioural issues. It isn't constant either. Please don't come at me when you know absolutely nothing about our family life or the way my children are raised.

There has been no cause for concern about my children in the last 12 And a half years apart from this allegation my child has said at school one day and the new safe guard has referred it.

I’ve got an only child who is autistic and has behavioural issues, people then like to say it’s because they are an only child and are spoilt and that’s why they act like they do, you can’t bloody win, essentially people just like to parent blame so they can pat themselves on the back and congratulate themselves on what good parents they are that they don’t have a child with issues

Liveheretoo · 20/10/2024 10:37

I work for the NHS and my work involves children and families. The OP’s situation is highly unusual and also very unusual for social workers to take so long to update you.

FrequentNameChanger2024 · 20/10/2024 10:38

Lucas28 · 20/10/2024 10:34

I know of some families who seriously need help and their children really are neglected yet social havent removed them.

I know you don't know me and don't have to believe me, but I'm not sat here saying my kids are the best looked after kids in the world and I'm the best mum ever and my children were "snatched" ... I just wanted to speak to some people who have had similar situations to me that is all.

I'd not bother trying to convince people who havnt been through somthing like this. Whilst all this was going on with us I didnt tell any of my friends because people tend to think theres no smoke without fire.

But, this is so common with autistic children, but proffesionals cant say that because then abusive parents could just blame their child being ND.

Some posters have no idea what their talking about. The police CAN remove your children at the drop of at hat, they could turn up right now and take my children if they deemed them in danger or at risk. Posters are getting things mixed up, the social havnt removed your children. The police have. Theres a big difference

Lucas28 · 20/10/2024 10:38

HollyLollyMollyJolly · 20/10/2024 10:32

From this, even though your child’s previous school had no concerns, it would look as if they do have needs that have not been met. Your 8 year old clearly has additional needs. Whether the school took it up or not, the parents would be expected to do something outside of them. This could be part of the "neglect" wider issue. Perhaps medical neglect in their eyes? You may have to prove that you've sought help from all angles besides waiting for school. Like gone to the GP for referral to child development services, CAMHS, etc. As this has happened, they'd blame the parents even though the schools failed too.

I have been the a GP in the past. My child honestly presents so well out of the home and at school ect. It took him years to even display behaviour Infront of my family. Id always say I struggle with him and they would all say he is an absolute angel but then he started to do it Infront of them too and they all saw where I was coming from. He just doesn't act this way at school.

I also contacted CAMHS ... They said he doesn't meet the criteria. I know everyone says they expect parents to go seek advice out side of school but literally almost ever other professional wants a report or a referral directly from a senco teacher. Which is hard when they don't see the same issues at the parents.

OP posts:
Peonies007 · 20/10/2024 10:40

Lucas28 · 20/10/2024 10:34

I know of some families who seriously need help and their children really are neglected yet social havent removed them.

I know you don't know me and don't have to believe me, but I'm not sat here saying my kids are the best looked after kids in the world and I'm the best mum ever and my children were "snatched" ... I just wanted to speak to some people who have had similar situations to me that is all.

Ok, I had a further look. I think this is relevant..
In emergency removal accommodation doesn't have to be discussed but should be discussed AS SOON AS REASONABLY PRACTICABLE.
SS should be discussing this with you, but are choosing not to.

Social services..
Social services..
HollyLollyMollyJolly · 20/10/2024 10:41

Lucas28 · 20/10/2024 10:38

I have been the a GP in the past. My child honestly presents so well out of the home and at school ect. It took him years to even display behaviour Infront of my family. Id always say I struggle with him and they would all say he is an absolute angel but then he started to do it Infront of them too and they all saw where I was coming from. He just doesn't act this way at school.

I also contacted CAMHS ... They said he doesn't meet the criteria. I know everyone says they expect parents to go seek advice out side of school but literally almost ever other professional wants a report or a referral directly from a senco teacher. Which is hard when they don't see the same issues at the parents.

I'm sorry your family is going through this. It's a terrible luck but I hope you all come out of it safe and happy. I feel so sad for your kids - this is absolutely traumatising for them!

Lucas28 · 20/10/2024 10:41

Morph22010 · 20/10/2024 10:35

I’ve got an only child who is autistic and has behavioural issues, people then like to say it’s because they are an only child and are spoilt and that’s why they act like they do, you can’t bloody win, essentially people just like to parent blame so they can pat themselves on the back and congratulate themselves on what good parents they are that they don’t have a child with issues

Edited

Absolutely. They look at because we have 6 children and say we can't possibly be supporting them all ect. My children do have one to one time ect. Posters on this forum haven't come to reply about my situation just make comments on the fact I have 6 kids and can't possibly be meeting their needs when they have no idea.

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Lucas28 · 20/10/2024 10:43

Liveheretoo · 20/10/2024 10:37

I work for the NHS and my work involves children and families. The OP’s situation is highly unusual and also very unusual for social workers to take so long to update you.

I know, my solicitor said I should make a formal complaint. She went on holiday for 6 days and didn't even tell us or give us another contact number. Even the foster carer has said she's asked loads of questions and not had a reply.

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