Does my DD need to know how to wipe her bum if she does a poo before starting school?

[RedRobyn2021]

DD is 3.5 and we are looking at starting her in reception the term after she turns 4, she won't be going full time but it to help make the transition easier when she goes full time September next year.

I saw a parent on fb group I'm in saying their just turned 4yo (turned 4 in August) is coming home without their bum wiped properly after a poo because they're being left to do it themselves at school.

I am panicking now

My daughter has even potty trained for 1.5 years and will do all her wees in the toilet but will only poo in her potty. I didn't think this was the end of the world but when i saw this I realised I've never taught her how to wipe her bum (she's fine with wees)

Please can a teacher or parent who knows better advise me what's the norm? I'm quite worried now

bingo! This is the real problem in the UK. Totally not developmentally to start school at age 4! Most countries have moved away from this. But hey ho, does not look like it is changing any time soon.

And I completely agree with you, although kids can make an effort, I do not know one 3 year old that can consistently clean their bum. Especially with toilet paper. Although I dont expect teachers to do it, I will not be surprised if most 3 - 4 - 5 year olds still has some dirt left on their bums.

Isn’t teaching how to wipe integral to potty training?! It’s like teaching how to ride a bike but miss out the bit about the brakes!

is the OP a troll? I can’t believe it wouldn’t occur to somebody not to teach about wiping at the same time…..

and yes, of course a 3/4/5/6/7 etc (and even some adults….) won’t get it perfectly clean and they will come home with skid marks for several years but even 3/4 year olds if they are potty trained should be capable to attempting to wipe themselves….

I thought if a child who has just turned 4 was struggling they would try to help. Nowadays most caregivers (good ones anyway) have learnt to understand that children develop at different rates. Not sure what generation you're from, but it sounds like you're living in the past. I suppose you also believe in authoritarian parenting? Smacking? Naughty step?

Maybe you need to do some reading on child development before you weigh in.

I think I've said why about 5 times

Because I thought starting for just a 2 day week for the last term would help her settle in when she has to get 5 days a week in September

It helped my struggling son immensely to have him in a bit before having to do it officially (struggled with separation)

Yes my response does lack basic empathy because I responded to a basic question

should my child need to know how to wipe before starting school - basic answer yes (obviously excluding children with additional needs)

Only to then be followed with buts and excuses. Children should learn before school, OP has plenty of time so what's the issue.

If she’s not ready to learn to
clean her bum then she is not ready for school. Sounds like you should consider keeping her in nursery until she either is able to attempt to clean herself or it is statutory mandatory for her to start school. If by the time she has to start mandatory school she still can’t clean herself then either you need to reassess your teaching methods or consider she might have developmental issues. A 4 year old can definitely wipe themselves, even if skid marks are left (heck, many adults still don’t know how to clean themselves properly….)

@Westofeasttoday

Also, perhaps your just the kind of parent that doesn't GAF but for me, sending my young child off to a school where neither of us really know anyone, teachers or children, to spend the majority of her time away from me is actually a colossal change for her and the thought of her coming home with poo/skid marks in her pants fills me with horror. It's not to my standard and not the way I want my child to spend her days.

So yes I used the word panic. Sorry, didn't realise you decided when it was appropriate to use the word panic.

I can help! I have 2 August borns and my youngest will also only just be 4 when she starts. Potty trained fully but needs help wiping.
I have already started the wiping training at home. I show her exactly how I do it from tearing off the right amount of loo roll and scrunching or folding, then how to wipe (I will take her hand and do it with her, then get her to do it herself). I get her to check for poo on the paper and if still pooey she needs to wipe again with a folded or new piece. I teach her never to wipe again with the pooey side of the paper, and never do the front after the back.

Do this every time they poo. You can also do it every wee as well - for practice. Just practice practice practice. It's so easy to just wipe for them - but I make sure every single poo she does it herself and I just wipe again to double check she's clean once she's done it.

My eldest struggled to wipe when she started reception and it was a right palava. It was a bit different for us as we did have poo issues in that she sometimes got smears because she held her poo (wouldn't go at school). So She came home with a pooey smeared bum often in the first few weeks. I spoke to the teachers - they can't get involved with wiping and will supervise and direct the child but not do the wiping. They did say if she was in a real mess they'd never leave her like that so I presume they actually would if it was really bad, but they did say if they needed to intervene regularly that they'd have to put some kind of support plan in place which I presume is what they'd do for additional needs etc.

All I did was give her a packet of wipes and spare knickers / some nappy bags to take with her, and encouraged her to use the wipes and change her knickers if they got dirty. She was happy to do this and did change her knickers often at school. We continued to work on wiping.

It was all fine and she did learn to wipe independently with the wipes herself and the teachers supported it by encouraging knicker changes and regular toileting. We don't have any issues now (she's just gone into year 1)

So basically I am super ON IT with teaching my littlest to wipe to avoid the same situation and I'm not too worried since we've got nearly a year to keep on with it! I've got her some special wipes to make her want to practice more.

Hope that helps somewhat!

The big thing for me would be, that if she is starting in reception in the summer term, she will make friends with lots of children who will then be moving up and moving away from her while she then has to make friends with all the new children who will be coming in in September. I remember when a lot of my friends left to go to ‘big school’ when I was in nursery school, and I found it really upsetting as I was friends with a lot of the older children who were moving on.

Obviously, people move around and come and go in classes but if she starts in September, she will be in the same boat as everybody else starting at the same time.

Also, on the wiping front it's not as simple as teaching them to wipe. Some children just don't have the dexterity, or can't reach round, don't have the right angle. It can be really hard! So it's not just "integral to potty training" - it can take time for them to be able to do it effectively.
Also my 3 year old has the attention span of a fish. Once she's done her poo, if she has the opportunity to go play with a toy, she'll run off pooey bum and pants down! So it's not just about wiping properly, it's about focusing for long enough to do it properly too and not getting distracted 😂 and there's nobody to prompt them or check them once they're at school like you might at home.
Some of the children starting are a full year older than the youngest and it does make a huge difference in how they "get it".

Another tip:
You could also get them to look in a mirror at their bits to help them practice / just educate them on what they're cleaning. Get them interested!

@ThisSharpNavyRaven a lot of primary/infant schools have a Nursery Class for 3 - 4 year olds (also known as the first year of Foundation Stage). If a child started the term after they turn 4 but that isn't the September of Reception then I assume they would be put into the Nursery Class.
Most schools prefer one intake - in September so it goes -
Nursery = the September after turning 3
Reception = the September after turning 4.
It sounds like the OPs daughter will technically be in the nursery class age group.
Nursery classes are a bit more flexible than Reception about when children can start or be full time or part time - so some children will start throughout the year.
Although the OPs little girl will be going to a teeny tiny school so it will be slightly different.

Your child is starting a preschool nursery class not reception

You taught her to sit in a potty but not to learn to clean herself?! How bizarre. Did you teach her to pull her knickers up afterwards, flush and then wash hands? It’s all part of the ‘potty training’ ritual so you only half potty trainer her.

when my son was young, it was felt that it was a badge of honour if children where using the potty by age 2. Why rush it?? My son was 3 and a bit when he did but when he did he picked it up quickly and the full shebag. Slow and steady wind the race.

@RedRobyn2021 maybe instead of school could she go to a childminder for a couple of days.
Your daughter is entitled to 15 free hours of education/childcare from after the academic term she turns 3. This can be in a child minder setting.
This could be a way of getting her to get used to being away from you and child minders are more of an "at home" setting - so more likely to help.

Teach her now, OP. You've got time, especially if she's great with her wees. Please don't worry!

I've started working on it with DD who's 2 and 3 months. She's independent as hell, but she's small and it's kind of impossible for her to do well, even if she knows how! I can easily see this being the case when she goes into reception (she'll be just turned 4 as a she's summer born). I don't think it'll be a matter of not getting it, more that she's likely to find it a chore physically and either not bother, or just forget. Your daughter will get the hang of it in time.

This is really helpful for me! Thank you!

I mean there are some schools teaching teeth brushing so I guess it's not that different.

Also harder for parents of very late summer borns. I don't think it's fair to say a 3 year old about to turn 4 should be as capable at this as a very nearly five year old.

@RedRobyn2021
I think that if you start now she'll have pleasure of time to get the hang of things before she starts.

As an aside I'd just like to say how the country where I brought up my kids does things.
We live on the continent where compulsory school starts at 6.
Before that around 95% of children go to a free state run preschool from 3-6, but there will be a few younger ones who start at 2years 10 months. Almost 100% of children start school at 3 without nappies.

However this school generally has multiple large bathrooms with around 8-10 mini toilets without any walls and sinks. It is part of the school day to learn how to use the toilets, how to clean yourself and how to wash your hands and dress yourself afterwards. The whole class go together at least 3/4 times a day led by teacher.
There is also a paid position in the school which isn't a teacher, but a woman who cleans and helps care for children if they are unwell or in need of help with toileting outside of the class toilet visits. It isn't uncommon to hear a little one call out for help in the bathroom if they need it.

Obviously I know this isn't the case in the UK, but just for info😆

At no point did I say a just turned 3 year old should be as capable as a nearly 5 year old. What I said is it not practical to expect the teachers to be wiping bums of 30 kids because parents haven’t toilet trained them before starting school. And parents with 6 months to go before starting school should be preparing them for the inevitable.

Next there’ll be a thread complaining that the kids are left alone because the teacher is constantly in the toilet wiping bums!

Parents can expect to deal with not perfect results and clean up when they start school. Perfectly normal as they get used to it. But the basic question of does my child need to know how to wipe their bum before starting school is obvious. And this thread is depressing reading all those that think it’s not. Poor teachers and frankly poor kids as it’s also doing them a disservice. 6 months is ample time to get them ready and if not perhaps delaying the start is kinder in the long run. Unless of course teachers are going to agree to whip out a potty and clean up, in which case crack on. (But I don’t know a single teacher that would agree to that).

Should my child know to wipe their bum before starting school? Resounding YES!

I like my neck where it is, but you have a wonderfully charming day! I hope you always have the kindness and treatment you bestow upon others both in your heart and outward persona.

You’ve entirely missed the irony in this.

In your first post you were rude and judgmental about someone else’s parenting choices whilst complaining about rude and judgemental people which I’ve pointed out to you as being extremely unpleasant, and now you’re using passive aggression to make a point that I’m the unpleasant one by pulling you up on it? Makes sense.

That’s what I assumed too. My daughter’s school has the school nursery children (children who will turn four during the school year) in with the reception class (children who turn five during the school year), though the nursery children are only there for the mornings.

@RedRobyn2021 I’d suggest that you check with the school whether she will be starting nursery in April, then formally starting Reception in the September, as you seem a bit confused about this point (not helped by the mixed year groups situation). I would expect nursery children to be helped a bit more with toileting etc.

@JaneDoeHere @EllieQ

Nope, she's in a preschool at the moment. She would be starting with the reception class which is also mixed with year 1s, not a nursery class. We do have another school nearby that does this from age 3, they are not offering them same thing.

@RedRobyn2021 it all sounds a bit unofficial if she's just being tagged on with the current Reception ones.
If she's in a pre school already leave her there.
They usually do school transition stuff during the last term of pre school (and a leaving ceremony) so she'd actually miss that.