4yo being silly - CPS called on us by school

[Junkemail]

Our life feels like it's been turned upside over a silly comment my reception aged child said to their teacher that her and my DH have been eating crayons out each others bottoms.

We've ended up with social services knocking on our doors and my DH is being investigated. It is absolute nonsense, she's 4 and says stupid things like this all the time about a variety of people. My DH is being investigated as sexually abusing her now. That's one issue and I'm hoping he's found innocent in their eyes as he's been kicked out the house by then.

But how do I handle comments like this moving forward so it doesn't happen again. She tells lies and imaginary stories that I know aren't true and this time it's ended up with us being in real trouble.

bloody weird post

I wonder if there are sock puppets, trolls, and/or pervs hijacking a thread that's presumably about a real family's real concerns, and whether it might be best to stop giving well-intentioned details of interactions with young ones.

i don’t get that vibe at all

You can take your eye rolling elsewhere. Your comment on pants rule isn't helping the OP because her DH, should be part of the 'except Mummy &Daddy'🙄🙄🙄so have some back!!

Yeah i agree with this, I was about 8 years old and a family friends teen kid was in a room alone with me for a minute or two. My older brothers and the other child of the family friend were kind of running about our small house going in and out the living room, but he had kind of hung back this time where I was in the living room.

He “jokingly” lifted my skirt for a second and did it in such a playful way designed to disarm me, but because no-one in my family engaged with me in that kind of way ( no bum play jokes /no bathing with my older brothers or walking around naked etc) I was comfortable in my body but at the same time instinctively quite protective of it and in this instance immediately knew something wasn’t quite right. My little brain was like : Why is this boy sneaking a glance where even my brothers don’t look?

It must’ve shown in my face because he just stopped then moved away slowly to join my brothers and his sibling.I dread to think how this could’ve escalated otherwise.

They can't force him to leave the home but if they advise it and you don't listen then that will reflect very badly on you. And you don't want the organisation that has the power to take your child into care to think badly of you. So op just do as they say until the investigation is over.

chestnut, so a child laughing at their mum's bottom is weird but a mum playing a bottom biting game isn't? I'm sorry for the facetious Diana Rigg comment - my gran has a book of Parkinson interviews & I always thought Diana Rigg was odd for saying that she did that
Op, I know you weren't actually touching her bottom, & pps have talked about rubbing a baby's bottom to get to sleep. These things are all fine for ordinary parents, but the pps above have made a key point : they are areas that abusers are likely to try to touch, so if there is a blanket rule, it's easier for kids to know at once, ' That's not right.' And if kids don't play these bottom games w parents, it's a clearer indicator of abuse if teachers hear about such a game. I know kids can tell stories ( my gran has a story about how she told people once that she was an adoptee called Violet Primrose). But they should be investigated if doubt bc the alternative is worse.

And OP- did you say they asked you if it happened in the garden when you weren't around? Did they mean your dd had said it had, or were they just asking if it had?
I know in your case it was just a game, everything has been found to be ok, which is great, so I just mean this as general advice :
Abusers can be brazen, and also sly enough to do things in a discreet way, even in semi-public ways. My cousin got abused at a family gathering in the garden, with other people around whose attention was elsewhere. Jimmy Savile abused children on live TV. Stop It Now, a really good org who I spoke to a bit after the stuff about my uncle came out, agree that semi-public abuse isn't unheard of.
Also, OP's secret game sounds confysing insome ways, but good in that it emphasises that parents shouldn't be telling children to keep secrets, incl from the other parent. The difficulty w the pants rule is that parents do need to touch young kids' bums, so if bums aren't played with otherwise, it emphasises that cleaning is an exception.

This is fantastic! Gosh, what a gorgeous, sparky woman she is. Totally agree with her about the bum biting too.

Hmm.. I like her acting & I'm sure she meant well, but isn't it a bit strange she was actually biting her daughter's bottom? Let alone her daughter's friends' bottoms?

I agree. The way she described it sounds like her daughter just complied with going over and pulling down her knickers because she was used to it. Nothing about it being fun for her daughter. It was all about her need to put her mouth on children's bums because she likes it.

This makes me really sad.

there is absolutely nothing wrong or unnatural about a small child kissing their parent on the lips.

No, there isn't with a normal parent. But w abusive parents, or other abusive adults, it probs is something that they might try that's on the spectrum of boundary-pushing (due to it being a romantic thing sometimes) without being def inappropriate. It is not inappropriate w a good patent, but if lips are off limits it makes it easier to tell if There's abuse if teachers etc hear a child talking about it. Obvs slapping is different, but now it's looked down upon it's easier to judge whether it's abuse if a kid talks about being slapped. When it was widespread it would've been harder to do that.

The majority of people are good parents and not abusers. That's not me minimising abuse, it does happen and of course it's terrible.
But telling parents they shouldn't kiss their children on the lips on the off chance they might be abused and be somehow confused about it is extreme.

I would also say that most children, even small ones recognise that kissing their parents on the lips is normal, natural and ok. Kissing other people on the lips is not. My two year old would not attempt to kiss her nursery teachers on the lips. She only ever does that with me and her dad.

And yes some children are abused by parents but I don't think that means all parents should adapt their parenting style and withdraw normal, natural affection.

I've honestly never given a second thought to kissing my children on the lips. It feels like the most natural thing in the world to me. It's not something I force and I certainly would never insist they kiss or hug anyone if they didn't want to. But when your children come to you for a kiss and you turn your cheek on them...I just don't get that.

Of course there isn't and if he slaps a big sloppy kiss on me unexpectedly I'm not going to tell him off. But what i am going to do is slowly guide him into more appropriate behaviour as he gets older. I tell him I love him a million times a day, I give him all the love and cuddles - and kisses- in the world but I'm thinking of the bigger picture long term here. He isn't the little baba who's bottom I patted to sleep any more. He's growing up and soon be off to big school. And I want him to safe in the knowledge he doesn't kiss grown ups on the lips and that private parts are private and not for joking around about. Of course he runs around making silly jokes- I don't tell him off il remind him with a smile on my face that private parts are private!

Oh my god i can’t understand why everyone is turning an innocent game into something so sinister, ive done it to all my kids when they were younger i used to say mmm i love ribs n bite their ribs and mmm i love cheese n bite their feet and mm i love rump steak n bite their bums, literally done this with my 8 month old the other day, i also used to chase them round shouting bongos! And play bongos on their bums n they would scream n run away giggling their heads off, i think its sad that parents can’t play these silly games with their kids without being judged 😔 just sad.

But what i am going to do is slowly guide him into more appropriate behaviour as he gets older. He isn't the little baba who's bottom I patted to sleep any more. He's growing up and soon be off to big school

he’s three fucking years old. Don’t turn away when he kisses you on the lips. You’re his mum

Are the stats still 1 in 4 girls and 1 in 6 boys abused and more than 80% of abusers are friends or family? I haven't had reason to check for a few years.

Calm down hun

Calm down hun

ah cool response. Tells me all I need to know

That's incredibly sad OP. And exactly why this overzealous SS operating because of a fear of abuse can go more harm than good. I do hope you go to your MP about this when things have died down because good parents should not have to live in fear of SS and parents shouldn't have micromanage their interactions with their child just in case something very normal they say or do could be misconstrued.

@Soitwillbefine

"The world may seem to have gone mad but it is fact that a disclosure may reveal (and prevent) abuse. Most people working with children/medically vulnerable/elderly people undergo extensive safeguarding training. There are comments/situations that must be flagged, even if you are personally confident there’s nothing in it. It’s not overzealous, it’s a professional requirement and there could be serious consequences for vulnerable people when things aren’t handle correctly. It’s a risk to put all the onus on one person’s judgement. Sadly, it’s a fact that sometimes what might seem to have an innocent explanation is actually quite sinister.

It’s easy to say ‘that’s ridiculous’ but there are systems in place because of lessons learned from the past. I agree that it’s sad that a loving family has had to go through such stress but unfortunately there has to be a process.

OP, sorry that you’ve all had to go through this really stressful time. Especially your husband, keep an eye on his mental health now while you all get back to normal."

What rubbish. No it doesn't have to be like this at all. People could use common sense. And the idea of everyone reporting even small things, is that those things can then be collated and potentially build a picture that may indicate abuse. The idea was never that one off nonsense comments such as this should result in social services investigations, parents being ejected from the home, initiate medical exams if young children etc etc. These things are all harmful to a child and/or family and should therefore only be done if there is very good reason. This in no way meets that bar.

That's not true.

As I said before, I think the social worker should have come as they'd be taken more seriously if there were something going on.
But yes the medical exam & father leaving the home are out of hand if nothing was found, it must have been really awful op 💐

I think there's been a bit of Chinese whispers here but there's no been a medical exam.

Appreciate all the comments though, I have been reading but trying to not get too worked up. We've got a meeting with the school booked in to understand what actually happened. Their policy does state parents should be contacted before SS.

We have been struggling with my daughters behaviour though and become extra aware of it, she's now saying it's not her dad who she ate crayons from her bum but a boy in the playground. She's lying about things and won't admit to it, changing her stories all the time. Got a lot of work to do it seems.