I don't want my 5 year old anymore

[icann]

I'm using a throwaway. Judge me all you want but I need some serious advice

I have 2 children..one who is 5 and who just gone 3.
My 5 year old is going into year 1..strongly suspected ADHD or autism. But the channels of diagnosis move slow. I'm sure it will crop up but no I cannot afford private

Right where to start. She's aggressive. I'm covered in cuts and bruises and scratches. My 3 year old is the same. She attacks her or me for the slightest infraction. Hitting, biting, screaming. The abuse she gives me. She laughs while she's doing it like it's funny. It's not. My 3 year old is terrified of her.

She doesn't listen. Does what the hell she wants. Nothing I say works. Nothing I say sinks in.

She doesn't sleep. She's awake till half 11 plus most nights. We've had the same bedtime routine since she was like a baby. Nothing works. Story, bath. Doesn't sleep. Just awake. Screaming abuse and hitting me and kicking me.

Speaks to me like I'm a slave. Her attitude stinks.

Refuses to go to school. God knows how ill get her there next week. Every morning is a battle. I've tried having a routine, getting her uniform sorted. Nothing works.

My 3 year old is losing all the time. Days out ruined. Can't watch her programme, can't play with her toys, can't do anything for fear of getting hurt. I watch them both like a hawk but inevitably my 3 year old comes out worse.

I don't want to do this. I don't see why I should. Yes she's my daughter but unconditional love only goes so far. I feel like scooping my 3 year old up and going as far away as possible. Dad is on the scene but works 5 days a week. 10 to 12 hour days. He has the same behaviour..

I've got a black eye and my daughter is currently sat with another bite mark from her sister. What's she going to be like at 8? Or 10? Or 14? The gp put her on a waiting list. The wait in my area is up to 4 years. I can't do this. I am.so broken and I have a 3 year old to think of.

Please help

Yes I took the youngest immediately upstairs and I locked us in the bathroom. For several reasons but mainly so I could check her face and to keep her safe. Being away from me and her sister was punishment. She hates feeling left out. I hate doing it but as I've said before she's solid. There's no way I could have moved the elder especially with one hand out of action.

But it’s not working. She continues to assault her sister, so the sister being removed isn’t the correct response (or at least, yes it’s a correct response, but it’s not doing anything for the behaviour).

I’m prepared that I’m going to be piled on for this, but SEN children still need to see normal human emotions to things so they learn social behaviour. Maybe she needs to see her mum and dad angry with her. You can show anger without aggression, I’m not suggesting anything awful like hitting her, but I’m talking about exposing her to the way people might behave when she does certain unnacceptable behaviours.

I can’t speak for OP, but if I responded with the normal level of anger, I’d just get more anger in response. It would aggravate the situation and put everyone significantly more at risk.

Tell nursery the truth. It may well trigger some safeguarding procedures but sounds like that’s what is needed to support you.
She sounds pretty articulate so she will tell them if you don’t and it wouldn’t look good if you’ve tried to cover up the truth

The only thing I would mention is that I’d stop asking her why she does things.

This rings very true for us. He doesn't know and gets stressed that he doesn't know.

Re letting her know you are angry. I would say yes you are right to let her know you are angry. It's probably helpful not to yell at her because (1) you are modeling emotional regulation and (2) if stimuli bother her then loud noises could make things worse.

But people feeling angry at her behavior is a natural consequence of that behavior. Natural consequences are good feedback and even if you wanted to protect her from them you can't really, or not forever.

Also modeling talking about your feelings may help her on the journey to understand and describe her own feelings.

Also, it's normal to feel angry if someone hurts you or your child! I feel like maybe you feel bad about that. If so then I don't think you need to.

I don't know what to do with myself. It's 20 23 and both of the children are asleep. The 5 year old is in her own bed. Asleep. This has never happened

Whatever you would have done 6 years ago, I guess!

Enjoy the peace! You deserve it.

Have a well deserve glass of something very strong 💪🏻🍷
I don’t know anything about kids let alone those with behavioural problems and I honestly don’t know what to say to help you but please know that you are doing absolutely brilliantly well; the way you and your husband are are dealing with this is amazing teamwork - you should be very proud of yourselves 🫶🏻
“this too shall pass”. 💐

Hope you had a nice evening. Well deserved! Xx

@icann hey op how are you? How did today go?

I just came to see how you're doing? Did you manage some progress today?

Absolutely great you have financial support from your ILs to pursue an assessment.

My DPs paid for my DS to be seen privately - it was 6 weeks from the speech therapist suggesting we needed to look into an assessment, to having a diagnosis. Otherwise it was a minimum 2 year wait in the public system here.

Your DD sounds like a PDA-er. Apologies if these supports have already been mentioned but the facebook groups which have given me brilliant tools to support my DS are Kristy Forbes Autism and Neurodiversity Support Specialist, and At Peace Parents (Casey Ehrlich).

Hang in there. xo

So the teachers meeting went OK. They didn't have a lot to say. Just kept telling us they haven't seen a lot of this behaviour at school but apparently year 1 is a lot less of doing what you want so her behaviour may change at school.
I've rung little ones nursery and explained everything. In conjunction with the doctors appointment today and the videos I've got plus the fact that my 3 year old will say that her older sister did it I'm not as worried about nursery. They were understanding and little one wants to go. Even if she does have a bite mark on her face.
3 year old has some antibiotics. The bite on her face is pretty nasty and the nurse cleaned it but wanted to err on the side of caution. So gave her a precautionary dose.

This morning and last night were hell. She did not want to go to school. We almost had to manhandle her into the car. I felt awful dropping off my sobbing 5 year off for her first day. But I had to. Massive respect to those who home school but right now I need that break. And maybe school can help her in a way I can't

The more stories I read on here (and in real life) the more I realise we were extremely lucky to have a school that understood masking. They always believed us.

I know now as a teacher that children can be totally different at home and at school.

Even a minute's thought would reveal to most adults that they can be totally different at home and work so why wouldn't that apply to a little kid in an unfamiliar and sometimes hostile environment?

Good luck OP. Do something nice for yourself today.

Well done, icann. I hope the GP appointment goes well today and you get some progress there.

Agree with Phineyj: do something nice for yourself today.

You have done bloody brilliantly OP.

The change of environment might do her some good.

The last 2 weeks of the holidays particularly have been awful here too, first day back at school today for him and after lots of tears and having a lay down in the car park, we’re all hoping it does him some good being back in a routine and having school to keep him busy all day. Hoping the same for you too.

Honestly, it may not feel it, but you’re doing great.

I know you dont feel it right now, but you and your husband sound like fantastic parents, I hope the private route gets you somewhere.

When it comes to the injuries and things, I think it's really important that they are documented as having been caused by your daughter. Its further evidence if/when needed, and may also open up some additional avenues of support.

Hoping this evening is a calmer one after school and your little one has an amazing day at nursery 💜

Edit to add: probably not what you feel like doing right now, but I would really encourage you to find some sort of local support group for parents if you can, even if just online like a Facebook group. You will find the kind of understanding, empathy and solidarity that you've had on this thread, without having to navigate your way through the judgment that you've also received from people who havent been there, and dont get it, and without some of the quite frankly shocking parenting recommendations that have been suggested too.

It's possible she was having anxiety about going back to school after the break in which case things may ease off after a day back. Here's hoping!

Great steps forward, hang in there!

3 year old had an amazing first day at nursery. She played, she made friends, she's loved it. 5 year old threw a chair because she couldn't play freely like reception. She's crying now in the conservatory and refusing to go tomorrow. Horrible as it sounds I hope them seeing her meltdown helps us get some help. She is going tomorrow. There's no choice. I can't deal at home. I know she's struggling and I hate seeing her suffer but I need some space too

he bit my 3 year old on the face when I was making them lunch. The 3 year old was doing nothing wrong. She was colouring her book. The tv was off. The house was silent. I asked her why. She said she felt like it. What do I do with that?

That however well behaved or quite they are you can never leave them alone together - not even for short moments- which means looking at home set up - which will be easier when you are less exhausted.

It's harder as at 3 and 5 as high chair and play pens even child gates start not to work - but clearly she can't be left with three year old without you or another adult in very close intervening distance at least in short term.

Horrible as it sounds I hope them seeing her meltdown helps us get some help.
I don't think it horrible - it's easier when you don't have to convince the school there are problems because they just can't deny it and they might actually start supporting you instead of being yet another obstacle to battle.

Keep doing what you are doing and make her go to school. When she is being violent, remove yourself and your 3 year old from the house. Non violent resistance training teaches that you have to keep yourself safe and others from the violent outbursts. Lock yourself in the car if you have to. I've had to do it with my daughter. It's teaches them that you are in control, and they learn to self regulate. When you feel it is safe to return to the house, don't talk to her, only tell her that you will talk to her when you are ready. If the violence starts up again. Return outside or the car, if need be. You nearly need to try and access NVR therapy through camhs or Barbados. It's been life changing for my family and daughter.

Sorry, really, not nearly

OP, a PP down thread mentioned the usefulness of the PACE model if you are facing very challenging behaviour. At it is core it is about the attitude we should hold as parents when faced with this in order to support our child's development, including by strengthening our relationship with our child (recognising when in difficult circumstances for extended periods without support, parents can develop 'blocked care'). Kim Golding's book, Everyday Parenting with Security and Love is a really good resource. As PP mentioned, it is written for the parents of children who have experienced trauma, but may be helpful for ND children too, especially as our children can experience small 'T' trauma due to sensory and communications difficulties.