I don't want my 5 year old anymore

[icann]

I'm using a throwaway. Judge me all you want but I need some serious advice

I have 2 children..one who is 5 and who just gone 3.
My 5 year old is going into year 1..strongly suspected ADHD or autism. But the channels of diagnosis move slow. I'm sure it will crop up but no I cannot afford private

Right where to start. She's aggressive. I'm covered in cuts and bruises and scratches. My 3 year old is the same. She attacks her or me for the slightest infraction. Hitting, biting, screaming. The abuse she gives me. She laughs while she's doing it like it's funny. It's not. My 3 year old is terrified of her.

She doesn't listen. Does what the hell she wants. Nothing I say works. Nothing I say sinks in.

She doesn't sleep. She's awake till half 11 plus most nights. We've had the same bedtime routine since she was like a baby. Nothing works. Story, bath. Doesn't sleep. Just awake. Screaming abuse and hitting me and kicking me.

Speaks to me like I'm a slave. Her attitude stinks.

Refuses to go to school. God knows how ill get her there next week. Every morning is a battle. I've tried having a routine, getting her uniform sorted. Nothing works.

My 3 year old is losing all the time. Days out ruined. Can't watch her programme, can't play with her toys, can't do anything for fear of getting hurt. I watch them both like a hawk but inevitably my 3 year old comes out worse.

I don't want to do this. I don't see why I should. Yes she's my daughter but unconditional love only goes so far. I feel like scooping my 3 year old up and going as far away as possible. Dad is on the scene but works 5 days a week. 10 to 12 hour days. He has the same behaviour..

I've got a black eye and my daughter is currently sat with another bite mark from her sister. What's she going to be like at 8? Or 10? Or 14? The gp put her on a waiting list. The wait in my area is up to 4 years. I can't do this. I am.so broken and I have a 3 year old to think of.

Please help

I'm going to settle my youngest. I'm going to settle my oldest as best as I can. Look at some of the links sent here. Total up some costs. Open one or two bottles of wine maybe. Talk to my husband.

It's hard. I want her to be herself. I love her. Maybe that's not come across but I love her. She's one of the most compassionate kids I know. We spent 5 hours outside last winter trying to coax inside a stray cat because she was scared it would be cold.

I just can't deal with the aggression. I couldn't care less about me. Be angry at me. Yes it sucks but you know I have a 3 year old. She's tiny. Literally born on the 4th percentile and never moved off it..my oldest is solid. In 8 to 9 clothes already no concerns on weight. Just big. Strong.

This was an eye opener. I knew on some level it wasn't okay and we have always floated the idea between us that she's possibly adhd or autistic but there's been no support. Everything got blamed on her missing a lot of development due to lockdown.

Hopefully she gets the help she needs.
Well we all need.

My in laws are amazing but asking them for money. One of the hardest things I've had to do

@icann I know this is thinking ahead but on the assessment paperwork (we did ours with school and fortunately they completely agreed that DS was autistic), you have to be absolutely brutal. Write as if it’s your worst day. The risk if you don’t is the referral will get rejected. Reading what school wrote was really difficult but needed to be honest, again so the referral didn’t get thrown out.

Wait for the parenting courses (hoops you have to jump through) that tell you to try a fucking sticker chart.

Look up interoception as a pp said as it will explain why she doesn’t feel thirsty. My DS rarely feels hungry. If it helps, the aggression did get better as DS got older and got the support he needed.

A diagnosis isn’t needed to get support from school, they should have TAs trained on the Elsa programme, zones of regulation etc. Do you know her year 1 teacher, is the senco good? You will need schools support. They’ll probably say she’s fine if she masks, but she isn’t fine if you can’t get her in.

Edited to add, the not going to sleep almost made me have a mental breakdown and everything we’ve gone through has almost cost our marriage. That’s how bad it is.

If @Jimmyneutronsforehead's correct (would be great!) then it sounds like you may be able to access an NHS assessment, so maybe you could pay for play therapy instead if the inlaws are willing.

If memory serves we spent about a grand on play therapy, the same on a (nice but useless) psychiatrist and a few hundred on a NVR counsellor we saw online one to one. We later also paid for sensory OT and an Ed psych assessment (because the ECHNA ones weren't very good).

The Yvonne Newbold resources look really great, but there's definitely benefit in having someone advise you specifically.

The ASD/ADHD assessments were nearly 3 grand though so definitely worth seeing if you can get on the NHS pathway.

If she’s ND, the internal turmoil is because she doesn’t understand her feelings. She won’t be able articulate - even internally - as you suggest here because she simply doesn’t understand the connection between actions and consequences, cause and effect. Punishment means nothing because she doesn’t understand why her actions have led to the point where it’s administered. She’s not closing herself off from her family, she’s closing herself off from a world she can’t make sense of until she develops her own coping mechanism to deal with it. Hence the extreme behaviour.

They're really hard to find but if you can get a good recommendation for an occupational therapist (a sensory integration specialist one) it might be a real help. Part of what might be driving your little one is not understanding her own body - either internal cues or where she is in space. Getting help with this in 8 sessions was huge for one of my kids. She looked happier, she was more capable and we understood why she screamed her head off at the top of ladders in the playground.

TheFormidableMrsC mentioned local SEN parent groups - they would be a good place to find such a therapist. You'll very probably be able to find them via your Local Authority's Local Offer page on their website. Worth a look for what the local services and contacts are. Keep going! You'll get there.

OP, if you’re going down the road of private assessment and asking your in laws for funding, you might want to look at the possibility of child disability allowance (DLA). It’s a difficult benefit to secure, but from what you’ve written here it won’t be hard to demonstrate that your daughter has needs far and above that of a child without this condition. And you don’t need a diagnosis - obviously you need to pursue one but it’s not needed at the start. Keep records of her behaviour, keep any videos you take of the behaviour and keep on at your GP for support. Use these as evidence for your claim - it will help a little with the cost. I’ve had extensive experience of completing the paperwork for DLA so if you would like more information or help completing forms PM me and I’ll be only too happy to help.

Not necessarily. I displayed behaviour similar to the OP's daughter as a child and I don't recognise your description as fitting myself. I think I understood that I was feeling angry and sad and I understood that my expression of that was difficult for my family to cope with but what I lacked was the ability to stop, to find a better way. For me the fact that the child is covering her ears when her parents try to explain the natural consequences of her behaviour is significant and it suggests that she does have some understanding, she just doesn't have the tools to process it so that she can do something with it. Even now as an adult I still get the frustration of "I've started this train, I didn't intend to and now I can't stop it" and I'm still waiting for that to get easier.

OP, off the point, but I'm concerned about your finger. When I broke mine I was told that if I hadn't got it treated I could have lost the use of it. Please try to get it checked out.

You might find that a charity like Parents in Need could help towards the cost of assessments.

We've had a video call. 5 year old wanted to speak to 3 year old. 3 year old said no. She didn't get angry. She got very very upset. So my husband phoned me privately and she's very much on the train of thought that everyone hates her and that she's a horrible big sister. Dad's reassured her as best as he can. She wants me now and I mean NOW but I'm settling younger one. I told her I would. She's going to be so so worked up when I get home.

Yes I'm 99 percent certain my fingers broken. I've strapped it up. The crack it made yesterday made me feel sick. My husband is going to watch 5 year old tomorrow morning while I go to the walk in. He'll have to work Saturday to make up for it but it is what it is.

I will have a look at DLA. I think I'm going to see what the gp says Wednesday and see if we can get a faster nhs referral and then go from there. If we can do I'll arrange some sort of therapy for older one. I really have absolutely no idea what I'm doing and I've failed both my children. That's what it feels like

I think you're very unlikely to get a quick referral if it's anything like my area but I hope I'm wrong.

What I would recommend is trying to find an assessment clinic privately that is likely to be recognized by the NHS/CAMHS.

For example, if she had ADHD you would need shared care with the NHS or you'd be paying privately for meds.

Feel so glad there are some kind people helping out.

There is no failure here. Can we actually do more than out best? I don't think so.

You haven't failed. You're working hard at something difficult.

You have not failed. No more talk of that. You are doing the very absolute best in a very difficult situation, hugs

@icann Thank goodness your good In Laws have offered to pay for an assessment-
They have obviously witnessed the extreme behaviour and violence - 15 stitches, to their son, bites, bruises- this is domestic abuse, being done by a five year old child.

Hopefully if you get interventions now, it will prevent even worse escalations as she gets bigger and stronger.

Hope the three year old knows she's at her Grandparents to keep her safe, not because ''you don't love her'' - that was spiteful of the 5 yr old to say that.

Fingers crossed for you.

Definitely interception issues. My daughter’s violent outbursts are made way way worse for example if she gets constipated/trapped wind due to not going to the toilet because she doesn’t know she needs to. It directly impacts mood and behaviour. Something to consider.

Ive heard great thinks about Kirsty Forbes’ online courses -Intune pathways for PDA

No need to worry about comprehension with me. I have seen the updated post which I hadn't at the time of writing obviously! 😳

Shaming disabled children is offensive and ill informed at any age but ridiculous age 5. Educate yourself on neurodevelopmental conditions?

Hi, I know you’ve already been given some great advice so I don’t want to overload you, but this video was a game-changer for me, along with some of her others. My DS (6) can be aggressive when overwhelmed/ frustrated/ tired and actually, like you said about your DD, also when he hurts himself.

Watching this helped me feel a bit more confident and in control and less rattled by it all (unless I’m really tired and grumpy myself!): https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7fiazouNjA0

It’s not geared specifically to ND children, but works for mine.

And also I think that these sorts of situations leave us feeling like crap parents who have failed, which then make it even harder to feel confident and “robust” in really challenging and scary situations.

You have reached out and I’ve noticed you are really receptive and open to people’s advice on here. You’re clearly really wanting to find ways to get through this

Our lovely NVR trainer said "with a child like yours, you've got to try to be A+ parents all the time. Other parents might be able to get away with B."

I liked him! It was a helpful reframe.

We've had a video call. 5 year old wanted to speak to 3 year old. 3 year old said no

Isn't it wind down time? Quiet time?

Thinking of good old Maslow....are you all eating well? sleeping?

I don't think children at 5 and 3 negotiating via video call is a good thing.

It was a spiteful thing to have said, and the 3 yr old is obviously mulling it over in her head, hence wanting to come home.

Being disabled isn't carte blance to be cruel to one's family.