I don't want my 5 year old anymore

[icann]

I'm using a throwaway. Judge me all you want but I need some serious advice

I have 2 children..one who is 5 and who just gone 3.
My 5 year old is going into year 1..strongly suspected ADHD or autism. But the channels of diagnosis move slow. I'm sure it will crop up but no I cannot afford private

Right where to start. She's aggressive. I'm covered in cuts and bruises and scratches. My 3 year old is the same. She attacks her or me for the slightest infraction. Hitting, biting, screaming. The abuse she gives me. She laughs while she's doing it like it's funny. It's not. My 3 year old is terrified of her.

She doesn't listen. Does what the hell she wants. Nothing I say works. Nothing I say sinks in.

She doesn't sleep. She's awake till half 11 plus most nights. We've had the same bedtime routine since she was like a baby. Nothing works. Story, bath. Doesn't sleep. Just awake. Screaming abuse and hitting me and kicking me.

Speaks to me like I'm a slave. Her attitude stinks.

Refuses to go to school. God knows how ill get her there next week. Every morning is a battle. I've tried having a routine, getting her uniform sorted. Nothing works.

My 3 year old is losing all the time. Days out ruined. Can't watch her programme, can't play with her toys, can't do anything for fear of getting hurt. I watch them both like a hawk but inevitably my 3 year old comes out worse.

I don't want to do this. I don't see why I should. Yes she's my daughter but unconditional love only goes so far. I feel like scooping my 3 year old up and going as far away as possible. Dad is on the scene but works 5 days a week. 10 to 12 hour days. He has the same behaviour..

I've got a black eye and my daughter is currently sat with another bite mark from her sister. What's she going to be like at 8? Or 10? Or 14? The gp put her on a waiting list. The wait in my area is up to 4 years. I can't do this. I am.so broken and I have a 3 year old to think of.

Please help

And it sounds like you have no experience of disabled children who lack the developmental capacity to currently behave more adaptively.

OP - yes, be angry with her. She bit your three old Inthe face. Why wouldn't you be angry with a child who did that?

You don't need to not be cross. If you do that, she'll think the behaviour is acceptable.

My child would get a time out in her room for every bite, every scratch. The suggestion upthread of a stairgate on the oldest's room is a good one.

And when she says "I'm a horrible big sister" why don't you say. "Yes your actions to your sister are horrible. But they don't have to be - if you're kind to her she'll want to play with you. If you hurt her she won't."

Saying "no you're not a horrible big sister" isn't what she needs to hear imo. She needs to understand that if she acts in a different way her sister will act differently back - and theyll both be happier.

Good luck OP - it's such a tough situation

I say (not all at once!):

“I’m feeling so cross that you hurt your sister. It’s my job to help you learn to find new ways to manage these feelings. We’re going to work on this together. It’s my job to keep you both safe and I’m not going to let you hurt me or your sister. And I always love you.”

If I see the signs building (his facial expression shifts) I will make sure I’m in between them. If he hurts her when she’s taken a piece of Lego, I’ll take the Lego away and say “you’re not ready to play with this. You need to show me you are calm before you can play with it”. And I need to be consistent as anything otherwise he’ll pick me up on it.

I also make sure I notice the positives : “I’m really impressed that… this means you are ready to…”

I try to be kind and clear and boundaried. I try to frame it around me helping him to learn the skills to manage his emotions.

Also I’m really open about my own feelings and urges, “argh I’m so cross I feel like throwing something! But okay I’m just going to try to calm myself down…” and also I’ll tell him lots of stories about me and other people in the family when we were young and felt angry/shouted/hit etc as it helps us talk it through without him feeling shame.

It’s not perfect by any means but I think we’re going in the right direction. Also I do lose my temper but then use it as an opportunity to talk through with him and re-connect.

It’s so hard as it’s a whole new parenting book with an ND child (or a ‘deeply feeling’ NT one!)

I have reacted negatively. I have told her off before.

In reply to the poster who said I seem less defeated I guess I am realising a lot. I always knew she was different from other children. I hate the word normal but I knew she was different but I believed that maybe it was down to lockdown or that she just needed.time..we've suspected autism for at least a year if not more. The violence has really ramped up in the last 6 months

I didn't lie to her no. She woke about 20 minutes ago. I told her I am sad and cross that she bit her sister and i am sad and cross that I didn't see what happened to make her feel that way. I told her that she can tell me anything how she feels and I will always help her even if she or I don't understand. I explained very simply that we don't hurt anyone and that her sister doesn't want to play with her right now as she's hurt but we can maybe try another day. She didn't get angry. She got upset. She told me she's horrible and then tried to barge past me to get to her sister. She wanted.to apologise but my youngest literally bolted upstairs which then caused a meltdown. Husband got home and he's now dealing with the eldest. I'm with the toddler upstairs.

I've told the youngest that it's not ok that she got hurt. That I'm sorry she got hurt. And I just don't know what else to do.

I’m so sorry OP. I was in a similar situation a few years ago, but the violence wasn’t as bad. Things have improved a lot though. Since his diagnosis I’ve had various people supporting me to support him and he never hurts his sibling just for the sake of it now. They fall out of course and we have accidents where they get hurt by the other, but things are so much better.
The only thing I would mention is that I’d stop asking her why she does things. She doesn’t know why I suspect and it’s likely to just make her feel worse.

I am wondering why you have waited till days before school starts to innitiate things? I don't mean this harshly at all. Were you trying to contain an awful situation and the idea of school has tipped you into action maybe?
A 5 and 3 year old can't grasp the same concepts as older children. I wonder if you are making life difficult for yourself, trying to explain and bargain?

Really hope you can access some help soon.

Because I didn't know what else to do. I spoke to school thru the reception year. They flat out told me there was nothing worrying at school except maybe being a bit quiet so they couldn't push for a referral. I took her to the gp when the violence started and they said they could refer her for an adhd assessment but it's looking 4 years wait plus they wanted evidence from school which we didn't have. The violence has ramped up this last month hence the post. I've not been sat here going oh my daughter is violent that's fine. I've tried but hit dead ends.

I believe you as we had the same.

You know this already but there is a huge stigma around child to parent violence. Child on child has at least made it into public knowledge after it was added to "Keeping Children Safe in Education" a year or so back.

I still haven't told my parents or sister and inadvertently, really shocked some colleagues!

To this day I'm not sure DH or I have told anyone about the spitting in our food (thankfully short phase).

www.sibs.org.uk/supporting-young-siblings/parents/when-to-be-concerned-about-your-sibling-child/

This is a useful site - not much use for such a very young child directly but the advice seems well considered.

Oh and while I have a good relationship with MIL these days, she found the shin kicking funny which I really didn't appreciate. It hurt.

Did you show the school video footage of the violence? If it happens around the schoolday they will refer anyway

Sorry I phrased that badly, Apologies.

Violence ramps up with lack of structure ie school?

Sounds like she has been struggling with the lack of structure in the holidays - you've probably done lots of lovely activities (or tried to) but this particular child is probably very rigid about schedules and has a hard time without.

You didn't word it badly. I'm just exhausted. Her behaviour when she was at school was manageable. It wasn't great by any means but manageable. The holidays have been hell. And as others have said I've hit about a million dead ends. I've got some videos to show school tomorrow. And I'm gonna go from there. The gp is Wednesday and I'm just hoping something happens. This cannot continue. In 2 days she's broken my finger and my daughters face doesn't look great. I'm literally on the verge of deferring her nursery place because it's just awful what she goes thru.

3 year old will enjoy nursery and be safe and cared for there.

But how do I send her to nursery covered in bruises and bites? What do I say to them?

I'm so sorry, I know its horrible but maybe that might get thing moving?

Perhaps somebody with expert knowledge can help .

She’s also 3 and lots of 3 year olds are covered in bumps and bruises from normal activity. I would note the injuries, fill out the pre-injury report, and not spiral over this. Nursery = normalcy and your 3 year old is entitled to that.

Tell them the truth.

If the little one's injuries are so severe and obvious that you are considering keeping her off nursery, so as not to arouse their justifiable concerns, they must be very bad injuries.

So yes the elder is violent. She lashes out. She goes from 0 to 100 in a second. My youngest seems.to get the worst of it. The bite on her face Is the worst we've had. I'm so ashamed

Did you take her to a GP to get the bite seen to?

Human bites if they break the skin can get infected, and are pretty idiosyncratic.

Have you received help for the broken finger yet?

The pain of that should require medical attention, alongside the bite to the 3 yr old.

I’m sorry, but she needs to know you are angry. Be angry about it. You don’t have to go in shouting and screaming at her, but there are ways to be firm and show you are extremely angry with her behaviour. She’s not learning anything. She is free to assault people and nothing happens…

I was an SEN child, but my parents got angry with me at times and I needed it.

Something does happen.

Some children need tangible consequences, and in this case removing her sister - which evidently affects her, is that consequence.

We have a “biter” in our house, and he’s also very attached to his dad. When he bites him, he gets moved away from his dad - that is the consequence, and over time he’ll learn that he doesn’t like it, and it won’t happen if he stops biting him.

My finger is strapped up. I did it myself but I went to the walk in today as soon as it opened. They pretty much x rayed it, confirmed it's broken and restrapped it.
I've phoned the gp for the youngest and the nurse will see her tomorrow at 10 am. She said keep it clean and not cover it. If any sign of infection, redness or swelling or extreme pain then 111 or a and e I guess.