I don't want my 5 year old anymore

[icann]

I'm using a throwaway. Judge me all you want but I need some serious advice

I have 2 children..one who is 5 and who just gone 3.
My 5 year old is going into year 1..strongly suspected ADHD or autism. But the channels of diagnosis move slow. I'm sure it will crop up but no I cannot afford private

Right where to start. She's aggressive. I'm covered in cuts and bruises and scratches. My 3 year old is the same. She attacks her or me for the slightest infraction. Hitting, biting, screaming. The abuse she gives me. She laughs while she's doing it like it's funny. It's not. My 3 year old is terrified of her.

She doesn't listen. Does what the hell she wants. Nothing I say works. Nothing I say sinks in.

She doesn't sleep. She's awake till half 11 plus most nights. We've had the same bedtime routine since she was like a baby. Nothing works. Story, bath. Doesn't sleep. Just awake. Screaming abuse and hitting me and kicking me.

Speaks to me like I'm a slave. Her attitude stinks.

Refuses to go to school. God knows how ill get her there next week. Every morning is a battle. I've tried having a routine, getting her uniform sorted. Nothing works.

My 3 year old is losing all the time. Days out ruined. Can't watch her programme, can't play with her toys, can't do anything for fear of getting hurt. I watch them both like a hawk but inevitably my 3 year old comes out worse.

I don't want to do this. I don't see why I should. Yes she's my daughter but unconditional love only goes so far. I feel like scooping my 3 year old up and going as far away as possible. Dad is on the scene but works 5 days a week. 10 to 12 hour days. He has the same behaviour..

I've got a black eye and my daughter is currently sat with another bite mark from her sister. What's she going to be like at 8? Or 10? Or 14? The gp put her on a waiting list. The wait in my area is up to 4 years. I can't do this. I am.so broken and I have a 3 year old to think of.

Please help

I read another thread on here this week (can’t remember what it was called) but apparently HV/social etc can fast track diagnosis/support in extreme circumstances.

Ive not read all the other replies but have you tried the heath visitor/family support?

Keep a log of everything and scream from the roof tops for support.

My four year old is similar. Also awaiting an assessment. Solidarity OP, it’s very difficult. Mine is also a girl and a crap sleeper. She is violent towards other children and her brother. One thing I have noticed is that first thing in the morning is usually the time when she’s most well behaved. So tiredness plays a huge part. People on this thread don’t understand what it’s like to have a child like this. Asking what are the consequences for bad behaviour like it’s all your fault for not being a good enough parent. You’re too soft, too strict, not consistent enough etc. Meanwhile your other child is well behaved despite being parented exactly the same as your violent child. I don’t have advice, just solidarity

OP, ignore the comments from those who don't have SEN kids, they do not get it. It fucking sucks at times. My 5yo is similar at times. With the extremity of the behaviour, could you be looking at PDA? If so, normal parenting techniques exacerbate behaviour. Are you on fb groups for SEN parents? There are groups for aggressive behaviour, autistic girls, autistic children and so on, it's worth joining some to get some advice from people who've been there.

We home educate our girls, both ND, and practice low demand parenting mostly. It keeps us all sane. The aggression is worse when they're dysregulated, and with pda any "demand" will put them into fight or flight. And the smiling and laughing could be an involuntary response so please don't read too much into it (I know it's hard though).

Are there any charities locally for families of special needs kids who you can contact for help? Do you get respite? Are the school helpful?

Stop that. You can’t be on the 3 yo’s side by default. There is no side here. Both girls are suffering rn but showing it differently. I think if you viewed it dispassionately you might even be able to see the 3 yo deliberately doing things to get her sister into trouble.

Have you been to the GP? Are you on a waiting list for an autism/ ADHD assessment? Have they referred you to any services that can support in the meantime? Can you go private? Speak to school. Speak to the GP. Get yourself some support. This sounds too difficult to deal with alone.

My DS has always struggled to sleep. He takes magnesium and it really helps. Not saying it's a cure-all but maybe give it a go.

That is so tough. For both of you. At her age she should be getting more sleep than that for sure.

What is your bedtime routine like?

I guess the point is that sticker charts aren’t going to work if the things on it are all things that never happen. Those things are all open ended as well. Could you try something like “be polite to mummy for half an hour” as well as things she already does (eg “put shoes on” or “run three times round the park”).

Lots of people telling you she is badly behaved. She sounds hugely disregulated to me. Completely overstimulated at all times. My DS has been like this.

Forget the punishments,go very low demand. If she tells you no or hits, it is the only way she can. My DS is much better now as we have learnt how to care for him. His siblings lives have massively improved too. I'm writing this while his sister has a bday party at home for the first time in 3 years, because he can now cope with it.

Read about disregulation / over stimulation. I like autism goggles on Facebook. Attend an autism parenting course if you can. There are also charities around which can offer advice and courses. Autism West Midlands if you are West mids based.

It will get better, but it is completely different way to parent.

@Doseofreality as long as my second has been alive me and my oldest have had Saturday, just me and her while my husband is off work and we do the opposite on a Sunday. She refuses to go out individually with either of us. She won't read with me, she doesn't want to do anything 1 to 1.
Even family days she hates.

Just a suggestion but is she pathologically jealous of the 3yo? Sounds really extreme, like the little one is a target. She's also lashing out at you, the mum, for giving attention to the 3yo.

With regards to bedtime that might be FOMO. My ds had it, he couldn't stand it if siblings were getting attention or something else was going on at bedtime. Turn everything off, speak in whispers and if everyone is physically safe just ignore, let her strop off and wear herself out. Do the dc share a room?

Have you tried spending 1 on 1 time with the 5yo, taking her out by herself, rewarding for any good behaviour while you're out? I'm sure that's absolutely the last thing you feel like doing right now but maybe worth a try, best of luck.

But isn't allowing her three year old to be physically attacked every day also abuse?

No. That’s too conplicated and sets your dd up as favourite and isn’t preventative. Simplify it more and make it specific and positive and something that prevents her from hitting her sister.

Eg use your words when you feel angry / sad - no shouting. The one that worked for ds was - come to mummy for a cuddle everytime you feel sad / angry. Prior to that he’d hit DH.

Okay I'm going to suggest a sticker chart not for her but you. Your aim is to get 5 stickers a day. You award yourself one every time you notice and acknowledge her doing something right.
You start by noticing the very slightest good behaviour, ate a bite of sandwich, was nice to sister for 3 minutes etc.
This will do two things: you spot her good behaviour AND she gets attention for "good " behaviour.

And her behaviour at school sounds totally like masking. Go back to you GP and get on those lists. At the same time contact the LA and request a EHCP (ignore if school say you won't get one).

This sounds incredibly hard for you and your family, Op. I hope that you are finding some of the responses on this thread useful.

No advice but I sympathise. Nightmare situation for you

Something is far wrong here. I would take them to your GP and have them both assessed.

I’ve been through EXACTLY this with my now 8 year old, I know it’s extremely difficult in fact feels impossible BUT do not give up with the GP and the referrals absolutely demand one and then keep pushing for an appointment asap, phone every single week to ask how long the wait is now for an app and how you can get one sooner, explain its affecting your mental health and you feel you cannot continue much longer before breaking down. My eldest son has ADHD and ODD and his ADHD is one of the most significant his consultant has seen in a 4 year old at the time and life is immeasurably improved for us all since he got established on a suitable medication! It took a few tweaks and med changes but he’s such a happier boy now and life is far more pleasant for the whole family. I promise you if you keep going and push push for the assessments and help life will be transformed in a few years

Supernanny has some episodes on her youtube channel where she teams up with an autism expert to help young children and their families, worth a watch.

Obviously I’m not there and I’m also not a medical professional but this is screaming neurodivergence rather than naughty. She’s holding it together at school at the moment which is typical girl behaviour. The behaviour stems from anxiety and having no way of regulating her emotions.

I think you need to chase the GP hard. Get the Sendco at the school on side too. Yes she might be ok now at school but there are signs and they can advise and signpost. I think you might need to be very pushy.

Have you tried not going out every day? That sounds quite overwhelming for a very SEN sounding kid.

What’s your house like? Is there anywhere that could be converted into a sanctuary for the three year old?

Sorry OP just seen your last post so obviously ignore what I said about 1 on 1

Agree with this.
It's not the food or the screen time (although obviously healthy diet etc all good). It's not the parenting and ignore those suggesting it is.
There's much more going on.

Are there any times she's calm? Anything that works?

The normal parenting methods often don't work for a neurodiverse child, that's very common.

Go back to gp or anyone you've been referred to. Cry if you have to. Show them your bruises. They can move faster if they have to.

Speak to the school about how to have an early help assessment. There could be lots or reasons why your DD is acting the way that she is, but you need specific advice and support for you and your family.
Do you have any one who can help and support you with day to day things while their Dad is at work? Even if it’s just while you can get some other support in place. As you already know, you need to protect your 3 year old as much as unpick what is happening with your 5 year old.
It’s easy for people on here to say that you should do this or that and make it sound like it’s your parenting. The one thing that is clear is you and both your children are struggling and something needs to change.
For the sleep issues you can contact the sleep charity. They have a sleep helpline and can offer advice and support, even if it’s someone to off load to when she just wont go to sleep.

thesleepcharity.org.uk/national-sleep-helpline/

My dc was the same BUT they were even worse at school than at home so there were lots of referrals to Ed psych and social services etc very early on. My dc had multiple diagnoses from a young age. They had melatonin for sleep from the age of 8 and that did help.

Sorry to say but my dc did not get better and I had a younger child as well who suffered. All the agencies you can think of were involved over the years. Obviously I can’t compare entirely and my dc was a complex case for various reasons.

I hope your dd remains settled at school as that will help massively.