Elderly MIL driving car with DC

[Eleano]

Hi Mumsnet,

Me and my DH are expecting our first DC. My MIL and FIL are both 80 years old. They told us yesterday that they're going to buy a car seat for our DC for their car. Initially I was touched but then I thought about it again and I'm pretty sure I'll be worrying about it closer to the time.

My MIL seems sharp but she does get flustered easily when driving. Her reflexes are slow but she drives carefully. My FIL on the other hand, is suffering from the early stages of dementia and his driving abilities are deteriorating but luckily he avoids driving for that reason although my MIL gets annoyed and tired and sometimes forces him to drive.

We don't intend on having them babysit until DC js 9 months old but that's still very young and they will be 81 by then and now I can foresee all sorts of difficult conversations, given that my MIL will be coming to ours for 5 hours a day, 3 times a week to babysit for 4 months (and then DC will do full-time nursery). My mat leave pay/company benefits are poor and I earn more than DH so those 4 months of reduced childcare costs will really help us. I never envisioned MIL needing to drive DC around during that time since everything is within walking distance.

Would you let people in their 80s drive your DCs around? What would you do in my position?

Nursery is a regulated inspected positive environment with trained staff it’s not a sluice room with strangers. You need to reframe your thinking about nursery you have some huge misconception & prejudices. They aren’t strangers they’re the trained adult you pick to provide regulated childcare. Illnesses - yes initially but that quickly declines. TBH they get the same illnesses attending baby group

You are choosing an easily flustered older adult for free child care because you have a prejudice about nursery

it does seem ill though out. Be realistic how can you work & maintain boundaries and attention being in same House as your baby. You need a differentiation of roles your paid a salary to work not keep eye on mil and baby

My mother was looking after my children really well in her late 70’s and it kept her young.

But everyone is different

They aren't going to need the baby sway because you are going to kill them with the amount of free child care you are expecting from them. My DS is 6yrs and extremely self sufficient and mature for his age and my parents are 67 and 71 and they had him stay for 3 days last month and were EXHAUSTED after it. Please get a clue.

THIS!

I'm a fit 70 yo.

My son's MIL is a fit 67 yo.

Our DH's are each a little older than we are. Not quite as fir, but far from unfit IYSWIM.

Each couple looks after our DGC 1 day a week - and by the end of the day we are like wrung out dish rags!

DGC is now 16m. He's an easy toddler and was an easy baby - slept well, took regular naps etc - but it's still absolutely exhausting. You forget what hard work a baby is - and particularly if your MIL is also effectively looking after a man in the early stages of dementia.

What if one of them is ill? What if your MIL falls? What if FIL is by then unable to even keep the baby safe, or think to ring an ambulance? Driving would be the least of my worries TBH. At this age you could ask for them not to take the baby out, but there is safety in the house to think about.

I really wouldn't expect them to cope with this. Your MIL may be very confident that she can manage, but she will be shocked at how tired she gets.

In addition, her ideas of childcare are likely to be very different from yours. What if you want baby attended to every time s/he cries, but MIL believes that that will spoil them? What if you want baby to sleep as long as they need, but she believes that you pick them out of the cot after an hour whether they have stirred or not? What if you want a dummy and she doesn't believe in them? (Or vice versa for all of these , of course). You could well end up falling our big time over a lot of things.

This is good advice, OP.

My DF has had dementia for about 10 years - he's now 90 and in a nursing home. For a long, long time my DM was in complete and utter denial of what was happening - even though he was getting up and dressed in the middle of the night, going out then, letting the dog out, had no idea where he was, upset because he couldn't go upstairs in the stairless bungalow they'd been living in for over 20 years ... I don't think my DM got a proper night's sleep for years - it was very hard on her - especially as she, like many people in that situation - was both denying and masking the reality of DF's dementia.

Maybe say something along the lines of people have told you how difficult / almost impossible it is to work at home with a baby in the house and therefore nursery would be best BUT can your mum come over for dinner once a week and perhaps baby sit for you and husband to have a lunch out.

Hang on !
So it’s ok to use your elderly MIL as a full time childcare for two very young children, but you don’t trust her to drive ?
If she’s not sharp enough to drive, how is it safe to have her as a full time childminder ?

Not fair on her. She’s also carer to her dh who has dementia !
I think you need to pay for most of the childcare and she can do some occasional fun babysitting.
Otherwise she’ll be exhausted.

Absolutely no fucking chance would I let them babysit for any amount of time let alone drive the baby. You know that if they babysit they’ll be taking baby out in car no matter what you say. You’re absolutely mad putting money above the safety of your child. Stop being tight and pay for professional childcare

What a lot of ageist bunkum. I agree about the driving but on the childcare front age alone is not an indication the childminding will be too much for her. I have friends of 80 + who manage horse studs, breed native ponies - and look after them and break them in, run shops and galleries and seem to have far more energy than a lot of younger people. It all depends on the individual, I get totally sick of the implication that older people are past it on here.

If he knows himself that his driving ability is affected, then he should tell them that now - especially if his wife is pushing him to continue driving.

He could kill himself, your baby, or someone else.

I also wonder why you are concerned about stopping them driving the baby about when you work from home. Just tell them "No."

I am old, but significantly younger than your MIL and the mere thought of looking after a baby for that amount of time makes me feel exhausted

I can walk three spaniels over rough countryside for 2-3 hours a day, every day, in all weathers, and it doesn't drain my energy the way looking after DGC in son's home for a day does.

I think play it by ear but be prepared that you will not be happy for them to do any childcare when the time comes. Or they may decide they aren't up to it. You need to be pretty sharp and fit to be responsible for a baby. The driving, no chance. You'll quickly find that you will stand up for what you want for your baby when it comes to their wellbeing

My DP were also were old when I had DD - early 70s. I thought they were both in very good health but they found baby dd v tiring, they weren't confident looking after her, and they didn't even feel comfortable to look after her for a few hours. They did babysit once she was in bed, but that was it. They did help by doing some cleaning or cooking for us while I was looking after DD, but never babysitting. They had forgotten how intense and tiring it is - to be fair they hadn't been around babies for decades. DD are 10 and 12 and they still don't babysit.

My DM is now developing dementia and MiL has advanced dementia so i have some experience of this too. I'm sorry OP, it's a difficult road. It's changed over the years from my parents supporting me to the other way round. One day I have a phone call from my dad crying because he can't cope. The next, my mum is phoning me because she doesn't trust dad and there's nothing wrong with her. They love my DC but don't have the capacity to be good grandparents any more. Get support set up for them as soon as you can.

I have to agree with PP…. 81 years old and doing childcare?! No no no way! I have a 9 month old baby and there is no way I’d be letting someone of that age be childcare, they might offer but they’re not up to it. 9 months is full on, they’re moving around and into everything. There’s no way they can do it.

In the short term OP I'd say no need to have the driving conversation, just say it's ages until they'll need a car seat, New car seats come out all the time that are better and safer, and it's better to wait until you know what centiles your baby is on to choose a next stage car seat (ie beyond small baby stage, usually they outgrow their infant carrier between 9 and 15 months). All of that is true, and maybe by then they'll be realising themselves they don't want to drive any more anyway.

Glad you've rethought the childcare, one day a week my ILs have my baby in our house whilst i work from home and if he spots me he's distraught. I do think MIL would really struggle.

I see you’ve changed your mind regard nursery use. Realistically you cannot work in same house as baby. You need a differentation between nursery & work to maintain boundaries and do your work effectively . I use FT nursery from 6mth old and I can assure you it’s not awash with illness and the staff and other babies aren’t strangers

How on earth did you acquire such silly prejudicial views about nursery? Do you have colleagues or friends who use nursery?

Great you’ve reviewed your over optimistic plans

i will say you’ll encounter the head tilt and disapproval from other mums mainly and you need to be resilient and not let someone else agenda and disapproval derail your plans.

Some people with dementia can rapidly deteriorate and need a lot of supervision (falls, anxiety, electric kettle on gas stove, wandering, leaving appliances on or dangerous stuff in baby's reach). Someone in my family has got to this stage in about 9 months. Supervising a baby as well sounds dangerous not to mention stressful.

@Eleano

All you need to say to MIL is that you spoke to friends with a baby a similar age and realised you wouldn’t be able to work with baby in the house.

And (to prevent her offering her house) that you want baby to be well settled in one environment and not have the stress of two transitions. Also you don’t want to put so much pressure on her with everything going on with FIL health (which will become progressively more difficult to handle for all of you).

Besides - when they go to nursery they get everything going in quick succession, norovirus, foot and mouth, chickenpox, gastroenteritis - you name it and as much as it is full on, it is easier to deal with this when they are younger, as opposed to a fully fledged toddler who projectile vomits and has diarrhoea just at the point you’re potty training…. Have heart, getting through this stage at nursery means avoiding it at school 👍

No convoluted excuses needed. You’ve booked FT nursery as you think it’s a conducive environment

A lot of us manage to work on the same house as a baby just fine - just not in the same room!

I also don't think it's right to label reluctance to use a nursery at such a young age as silly and prejudiced. Everyone is entitled to their own views. I wouldn't have used a nursery at that age either (or under 3's personally).

Stating nursery is full of illness and strangers is prejudiced & silly pov it’s a tired trope
Anyway op better practice her head tilt and mmm really? for the disapproval from the mother superiors who’d never use nursery. No siree

you wfh and watch a baby? You’re not doing both equally something gives because it’s two competing demands. Probably you’ll tell me no, it was great and no compromise or competing demands arose

The "plague rat" quality of young children is easily overlooked - we have had all sorts of nasties since DGC started nursery.

(By far the worst was hand, foot and mouth disease, which affects adults much more badly than it does infants.)

It's honestly not been a problem, but that's within in the same house, not doing both at the same time.

Both my husband and I have flexible working hours (I'm self employed). So we'd often take it in turns one of us looking after baby/children and the other working, and then both working in the evenings. They've grown up knowing we work in the house, and its fine for them.

For a few months (when he had less flexibility), I managed by working very early morning before he left, during naps and during the evening. It was hard work, but the thing that suffered was me not my baby or my work.

Childminders are a good alternative for a more homely environment for young ones. That's what we did. Some people prefer nurseries, but it wasn't right for us.

I’ve run a yard and also had a baby. No comparison whatsoever. Give me 10 horses over a baby for an easier ride any day.