School want me to come in 3 times a week?

[WhatanEmbarrasment]

Would you find this too much? I have a 9 year old who doesn’t like school he often refuses to go in and this can make us late as it’s difficult getting him up and ready meaning we are often late (it isn’t our closest school and I’ve looked into moving him but he doesn’t want to change schools) a member of staff approached me from his school a year ago to speak about his dislike of school and asked me if I could come in for a meeting I said yes, during the meeting we spoke and she asked if I could come in every Thursday and sit with him for an hour whilst he does his work. I agreed at the time as she said she thought it would help him want to come in but I didn’t realise how long it would go on for, it’s been a year. Initially I thought it would be a few weeks or something?! There’s been breaks where I haven’t been in for illness etc but this started a year ago. The other day I dropped him to school and I had an awful morning where everything was just on top of me so when she caught me I looked like I was about to cry (I wasn’t it was just the last thing I needed) so she asked me to come in the next day, I came in and she’s basically asking me to come in 3 times a week for different things, every week so as a regular thing.

I feel like 3 times a week is far too much, even 1 day a week felt quite full on as I don’t know anyone who has weekly meetings at their children’s school. It hasn’t helped or changed the situation at all. Sometimes I will try to avoid her and drop them and hope to quickly leave so I don’t see her but she has clearly told the office not to let my children in until she gets there as I will buzz but they won’t let me in until she arrives. Would you find 3 times a week too much? I don’t know how to get out of this

Nobody here can diagnose your son, but from what you say, he seems to have SEN.

The GP is a good starting point.

Try to ignore what the SENCO thinks. Something isn't right.

Even if you get a diagnosis of SEN though is that going to change whether he likes school or not? If he has a diagnosis and school put support in place for him are you going to be able to get him over the threshold and leave him there when he’s in Year 6/7/8? Or is he likely to refuse to go without you?
if you can get him into school and stay with him without him becoming upset (even though he doesn’t like it) is the issue that he doesn’t want to go to school because he won’t leave you? Do you have any family support? Maybe someone else who can drop him at school so the morning routine is different.
What was he like at school before you started going in? Did he have any friends and could he settle and do his work?

My daughter never liked school. She tolerated primary school but when she moved to secondary school it was a battle to get her to attend. The school constantly rang me to collect her as she said that she felt sick. It wasn't until the school allocated a mentor in her last two years that she started to attend regularly. The school tried to get to the bottom of why she didn't want to attend so did we but we never got to the bottom of it. Despite missing a lot of school my daughter did very well at GCSE and "A" levels and has a degree. When I ask her why she didn't want to attend school she isn't able to explain why.

If he doesn't like any of the other children and really hates being there, I would think he probably does have some kind of SEN? My child would say he hated school all the time but if he wasn't at school and everyone else was he would hate that more.

As for going in 3 times a week - I wouldn't do that, I wouldn't even do it one day because I wouldn't be able to work. Sounds very difficult though.

This is hell on toast to go through

No you can't be an unpaid TA for him, that's not reasonable and if you going in was going to help it would have worked by now. Firm no to that, you need to be available to work and run the family, you've done what you can for as long as you can and this is no longer an option. If they feel he needs someone to meet him and be with him who provides that relational help then they need to match a TA to him and sort out funding for this. There is evidence of need: you've been in school creating it for them, his reduced timetable, that in all this time he's no happier and no more settled.

Look into sourcing a private Occupational Therapy assessment. School may be able to help fund this, you may have local charities who would help fund this, it is not cheap but one of the specialisms of OTs is wellbeing and anxiety, and they work a lot with children who have big school anxiety. Often it is related to sensory processing and the school environment feels too much and overwhelming, this assessment may result in some practical evidence of need and practical things to do to help him immediately.

Also get in touch with your local authority parent advocacy group, often called SENDIASS or something similar. They know the law and can help you set boundaries and help you and school look at options to get him the support he needs. Essentially they now need to look into assessment - Educational Psychologist as PP says, CAMHS, school need to pull out the stops on SEMH support and interventions, and work out: what can they do that might work? Are there any nurture provisions that might offer him a place? Therapeutic and confidence building activities they can buy places for such as therapeutic riding, forest school programmes, nurture programmes, farm school programmes where he'd have a weekly session? And if this plan doesn't help, then they need to use that evidence to sort him a placement somewhere that may work better for him. And then it's up to them to sort out a transition plan that works for him and helps him to feel good about trying something else.

Look up https://sunshine-support.org/ OP, they may also be helpful. He does have a SEN, an emotional/access one.

Just email school saying, When I was originally asked to come in once a week, I didn't mind. Because I thought it was a temporary measure. I'm sorry but I'm not prepared to increase it to three times a week, permanently. I have seen no improvement to this arrangement, so it am no longer coming into school."

You need to be firmer with the school. You have to say no you are not coming in (doing their job for them) every week. That's madness. What if you had to work? It's only when you stop going in that they are going to be forced to deal with the problem properly and things might improve.

If it was me I would pull him out and try somewhere else. He might not want to now, but he doesn't know really. He has no idea what another school would be like. It could change everything.

Are there any alternative provisions near you? Forest school, Steiner schools?

Sounds stressful for you and him.

I would add to that, that if he requires 1:1 support in lessons, the school needs to provide it

What does he do differently if you are sat next to him in class? Does he need an adult to constantly repeat repeat and encourage before he does anything? If he can’t access leaning without some sort of physical or emotional input he does have extra needs. If they are because of a disability or not doesn’t matter.

If he’s sitting there cracking on without you there they wouldn’t be asking for you to come in. I’d ask to see his work on the days you are not there and compare. If it’s just blank pages because they don’t have staff to engage it’s a clear sign he needs more help.

they have a chance last 2 years of primary to try and turn this around with some sort of better support. He may get around being driven in at 9 but other wise he’s going be a y 7 school refuser and you be back at at worst place. He may not be able to explain except why he hates it so much yet but that may come with a proper trained professional.

It depends what's going on. He's clearly anxious about school, anxiety can be a Sen if it prevents a child accessing their education properly. They can't exactly deny thees a problem when they want you in 3 days a week. But kids are usually anxious about school for a reason. Could he be autistic? Have sensory processing difficulties? Is his learning ok? Mine weren't diagnosed with asd until 10 and 12 and schools never saw it 🙄. The most obvious sign at school was their anxiety around attendance.

I can name 4 of my family members with no sen who hated school just off the top of my head. I absolutely abhhored it. I'd hide my uniform, shoes, etc anything to stop going in. It wasn't anything specific either, it was just the whole thing. It's not unusual at all, it seems to be getting more common.

He hates the school, teachers other children why wouldn't he consider a different school?

How is he doing academically?

A lot of SENCO's wouldn't know SEN if it bit them on the backside. Ignore them.

He clearly needs more support and you'll have to start being the annoying squeaky wheel that people pay attention to.

Diagnosis is a red herring anyway in terms of accessing support. Provision of support should be needs driven rather than diagnosis driven. They are not doing enough. You do not need to be an unpaid TA. Which is of course a sign of need.

He has SEN in the category of social, emotional and mental health, which is one of the four areas of the SEN Code of Practice. This may be associated with some cognition and learning needs - for example that he doesn't want to go to school because he isn't able to do the work. Or it could be that he is neurodivergent, for example if he has autism then it may be that school is too loud and overwhelming for him.

He is presenting with emotionally based school non attendance (EBSNA or sometimes called EBSA). It has been going on for over a year. Either you or the school now need to apply for an EHCP.

In the meantime, have a look at these EBSNA resources:

https://www.partnersinsalford.org/media/qjodageh/ebsa-guidance-for-schools-final-2022.pdf

https://www.surreylocaloffer.org.uk/parents-and-carers/education-and-training/ebsna

https://www.newcastlesupportdirectory.org.uk/emotionally-based-school-non-attendance-ebsna

Wow. It's the school who needs to have the plan.

School refusal is getting more and more common, even without SEN, partly due to lockdowns/Covid. It may be SEN, it may not be, but either way if you are not willing to home educate (which I totally understand, I wouldn’t either) then you/him/the school need to find a way to get him in and keep him in. It may be that the school see you coming in as a first step & that it does help him, there is a child in my nephew’s class who’s mum comes in 3 mornings a week and she stays in until after first lesson is over because that child’s biggest struggle is just getting in. When she doesn’t come in with him and stay he screams, cries, tries to escape and is distressed ALL day, on the days when his mum comes in he is much calmer albeit still doesn’t love school but he is much more settled and because they do Mon/Wed/Fri he always knows he is just 1 day a way from her coming in with him.

It’s about just trying to find something that works for you as a family, figuring out a way that gets him in and keeps him in amongst yourselves. You may well find you have to put in the bulk of the work as the sad fact is even if your child has SEN, the funding just simply isn’t there in a lot of schools to give the time and attention to these kids that they need.

Does he have friends at the school? Does he have friends outside school? Why doesn't he want to change schools if he dislikes it so much? I agree with PPs who've said you need to push for a meeting with the Ed Psych.

Sounds really tough op.

Just to add, the SENCO isn't there to diagnose. It is possible when filling in the form it was done factually - that there's no diagnosed SEN but I'd be asking for a referral through the gp in your shoes.

Out of interest, how is your ds with leaving you in general? Does he struggle with it or will he happily spend time apart? Not in another room in the house but say going out to a friends house etc.

He doesn't want to change schools but he doesn't like the school he is in? I think you should give him a choice: settle down at this school or we will try a new one. I am sure there are many 9 year olds who would like to be home educated but they go to school and get on with it. Tell him it is not an option.

I don’t think he wants to change schools because it’s not the school he doesn’t like it’s school in general so another school wouldn’t make a difference. It’s not this school in particular he doesn’t want to go to any school.

At that point though the conversation needs to be that he has to go to a school, so speak to him about which he would prefer to go to. Explain he has to go, so would he rather stay where he is or go to another? Try to involve him in the conversation if possible

Sounds like there is some missing info here. I would assume there is perhaps also a lot going on at home as well. In any event, you should not need to go into school to sit with your child in class. Is this what they are asking? If you think he needs more support, you need to ask the LEA for an EHCNA. If you think he would be better off in a more local school, make enquiries and move him. I think you need to take charge of this yourself. What is his attendance like? Are they asking you to make sure he comes in three times a week maybe??

He doesn’t know he doesn’t like school in general because he’s only been to this school.

he doesn’t know that different schools will have different staff who can try different techniques that might help him.

he can’t articulate what he needs.

because he is nine!

poor kid is miserable and stuck in a school which doesn’t appear to have the first clue how to help him. Move him.

He wants to stay at this one, believe me I would love to move him as there is a school at the end of our road, this one is a bus ride away and makes things more difficult as it’s further than ideally I would like to travel each morning. I don’t come into his class this member of staff has a room and he comes down to there I never go into his actual class.