Summer born deferred. Now refusing to stay at school.

[Aspiringhermit]

I am posting on behalf of a friend. Her son was born in August so she and her husband decided to defer him starting school. They were able to do this because his due date had been in September and their LEA was understanding. The son attends a private school who were willing to take him out of normal school cohort. All going pretty well until now. The son is now 17,in Year 12 doing first year of A levels and absolutely hates it. He's determined to leave school as soon as possible. He's accepted that his parents have paid fees for the coming term so has very reluctantly agreed to go back next week, but want them to write to school to say he is definitely leaving at the end of this academic year. He says that as he will be 18 before the start of the next academic year, the school and his parents can't force him to go back. Unofficial discussion with his form tutor has revealed that the school would not legally be able to consider his parents wishes. He will be an adult and cannot be forced to continue to year 13. Can anyone advise what they can do to win the son round. One reads so many threads of parents deferring summer borns, but not sure how many have had to deal with this end of the school experience.

It may be tricky for him to start A-levels at a state college once he's 18, as his year 13 would not normally be funded. I can totally understand why this would be a good option, but he is very close to ageing out of the state system, so it may not be possible.

I think most of the situation isn't caused by the deferral, but by his parents being unwilling to consider the sons needs as he grows older. However, in the state sector, deferral can lead to occasional issues Post-16!

My son was late August born and two months early (due in October). We didn’t defer him. Loads of his mates turned 19 in September 23 as he turned 18 in August 23. They all went off to Uni him 18 his mates all 19. Non of them thought about dropping out when they turned 18. They all passed their driving tests before heading off to Uni too.

I don’t understand the argument their son is making there could be literally days between him and others in his deferred year it’s not like he will be so different even if he is the oldest. However, sounds like he doesn’t like the private school. I would focus on finding him a sixth form or a college so he can finish his A levels in 2025 which will also give him a sense of freedom too.

https://help.rfu.com/support/solutions/articles/103000094877-what-are-the-rules-of-play-for-my-childs-age-group-

Here you are @Needsomesupport84 rugby rules regarding age.

I don’t think that happens any more - if it does I’m a bit cross that I seem to have missed out somewhere along the line! 😂
There are some very clever people in the ranks, not everyone wants to be a manager.

I am also a summer baby but not late August. I never struggled at school. Autumn born babies aren't necessarily more studious than summer born babies. I'm in my 20s now but I celebrated my friends' 18th birthdays... Even though I was slightly underage 😁

Oh my god does anyone actually care about the rules for SOME sports teams. Deferrals are very very common these days so they will no doubt change the rules anyway at some point as wouldn’t be fair otherwise.

And it’s very weird to be so invested in a friends child and to pin all the blame on his being a few weeks older than his peers. How about if they’d instilled a proper work ethic in him rather than him feeling he can fall back on a trust fund? I suspect that’s where the problem lies.

Clearly the boy does as he was unhappy to be pulled out the team due to his age.

Thanks but how does this mean that a kid can’t play on school sports teams? When I was at school, the teams that competed were mixed year groups anyway. It’s really not as big a deal as the OP seems to think and I’m sure a private school would have had some solutions to the ‘problem’.

Clearly the boy does as he was unhappy to be pulled out the team due to his age.

I wouldn’t worry about it as it probably never happened. Anyway I’m sure his trust fund will console him.

I think it's significant that he's at a private school. Obviously not all schools are alike but he may be happier transferring to finish his A-levels at a college and that might be a compromise he and his parents might agree on if he can be led to see the benefits of joining the military with qualifications.

There is a huge difference between the sixth form experience at the private school my DS is at vs the sixth form college my friend's DS is at. I can totally see some 17/18yos totally hating the former. At DS's school they have to wear business suit smart clothes with tie every day, they have a packed curriculum with mandatory study of 3 non-examined subjects (ie not A-Levels) for broadness of curriculum in addition to their Alevels, and they have very little free time. Friend's DS has 5 hours of lessons per week for each of his 3 Alevels and that is it. No dress code and plenty of free time.

In your friend's situation I would be trying to get DS to agree to a transfer to local college starting from May 2024 to finish Alevels and then do the travel/military thing.

By the way the military are keen on people reaching their academic potential. My dad dropped out of uni half way through his course and joined the military. After basic training they signed him up to equivalent academic study (not the same course as he dropped out of, but leading to a degree in the end) because they don't like wasting good brains.

I'd have thought that not being able to complete his education at college if he goes travelling now, and then not being able to join the military at the level he wants to join, would be pretty strong arguments that might convince him to stay on at school.

But if he really hates school that much he might just decide to leave and take his chances. If he's smart and motivated and generally well educated he'll find a way to work his way up wherever he starts from.

Whether his parents were right or wrong to defer him seems a bit of a red herring by now.

I think the problem is not that they deferred him when he was 4 but that they didn’t listen when considering options for Y12 and that they still aren’t listening to what he wants now. My son is an older one in Y12 (in the correct year) so a matter of weeks younger from this boy, and we asked him what he wanted to do after completing Y11. Sure, we’d still advise and encourage him to think it through, but older teens need to be transitioning to adulthood and taking responsibility for their own lives.

It’s a big deal if the school participates in the National Schools Cup, which follows the RFU’s strict age rules. There is a big focus on safety issues in school rugby at the moment and allowing overage students to play below their chronological age is unsafe.

This is not my child. I believe that deferral can be the right thing to do. But someone upthread said that the system to allow for deferral has not yet been in place long enough for the long term consequences good or bad can be fully evaluated. My friends son, being educated in the private sector may be one of the first for whom the entire process has played out. For him it doesn't appear at the moment to have worked out quite as his parents hoped or intended.
I do think that all the practicalities of deferring deserve being discussed. I can understand the defensive tone of some posters. I get that others may have judged you for your decision. What I think is important is that lessons can be shared so that in future years the possible stumbling blocks to deferment can be overcome to the benefit of all young people.

Because he was 17 on 31 August he couldn’t play in the under 17 team in the tournament. It’s surely not that hard to grasp. If this thread is upsetting you so much maybe consider leaving it.

Being dropped for being overage definitely does happen, and I have seen this happen in a number of school teams. My dcs friends have had this happen to them, ( fee paying schools) and we have have had to do it once at the state school i teach at.
friendlies, first rounds etc not being an issue but later rounds of national cups it very much is a real issue, certainly in certain school sports.

It’s not upsetting me. It just has nothing to do with a young rich person wanting to drop out of education, knowing he will be sorted financially. It’s a total red herring and sounds weird to fixate on it.

Well their effort to put him at an advantage by being older than the year has come home to roost. Newsflash: not all children do A levels. He could do a BTEC or other Level 3 course, apprenticeship, get a job....

Seriously my own DC journey through y12/13 hasn't been smooth, but you can get stuck either way. I have a very young summer born who did a year of college, really hated structured education and wanted to get a job, but had to hang around waiting to be 18 for a year. Now he wants to access adult education (much more flexible) but has to be 19 for that FGS. My only takeaway is to try and let them find what motivates them rather than forcing down your pre determined path. If you are in private education the expectation must be brutal.

I think the main thing is to find out why he hates it.

Wrong subjects
Finding them difficult
Bullying
Friends all left
Just wanting to do something different
Feeling too old to study

All possibilities among others.

Then as parents they need to see if they can find a compromise/way forward.
Maybe look at restarting A-levels if he feels they're the wrong subject. Or a different school, maybe a 6th form where they treat them more as young adults. What about looking for a school with a CCF, for example? Or maybe look at apprenticeships.

I do think there is a question on deferring in that people are choosing based on the child in question then, without thoughts as how they'll feel when older. We had a girl who'd dropped a year due to medical reasons at our secondary. She'd dropped at infant level, so a long time ago, and we were good friends, but now she's an adult she'll tell you she was very aware of being older even though I can't remember it ever being raised among us - except when we used her to buy the alcohol!
I also know that I'd have deferred ds at 4yo without a second thought. I'm also pretty certain now he's 16yo that it would have been the wrong decision.

It is - otherwise there wouldn’t be the cracks about ‘a young rich person’, trust funds, ‘being sorted financially’ etc. Questioning rules about school sport etc

On the flip side with age limits, I have a friend who has also deferred her summer born child. She lives in a seaside town in Cornwall with a very strong surf culture where a surf lifesaving course is taken by many of the local kids in the summer and where the cut off age limit is judged from June. If she hadn’t deferred her son’s entry he wouldn’t have been able to do the course with the rest of his friends in his year. Same with things like driving a car - everyone passing their test but you having to wait until the end of the summer to even start driving. So for every sports team thing where being overage is an issue, there’s another area where the opposite is true. It’s swings and roundabouts.

This could do easily be us. Our DD was also premature but ‘just’ got into the correct school year. We campaigned for preemies to be allowed to be in their ‘right’ school year - and it is now an option for all summer births in England with school agreement.
our DD is also 17 and in Y12 but almost right up to results day, she planned to leave school and do a vocational level 1 course at the local college (despite being academically able). As parents, we had to work really hard at accepting that whatever she did was her choice because it’s her life. We accepted her choices and supported it whilst reminding her that there were other options and that education is not always linear.
I can admit to being happy she opted for A levels but have never told her I think it’s ‘better’ than her original plan. She will be 18 for the entirety of Y13 and will also be able to access her trust fund on her 18th birthday.
Her 6th firm directs students in 4 ways - Uni, apprenticeship, the military or work.
would your friends son be open to transferring (maybe after some travel) to a college rather than a school. Colleges tend to treat students as young adults - my daughter comes/goes as she needs/wants, scans in, no uniform etc. is part of his issue still being in his school and, therefore, treated in the same way as a child.
I personally hated lots of my A level time at school. They are hard and, if you don’t see the point, even harder.
If he completes Y12 will he get anything - do they still do AS levels that he could use towards a foundation year at uni if ge ultimately decides in that? Does he want to be an officer in the military - so qualifications would be more important/useful?
it’s really hard being an adult teenager these days - if his parents weren’t paying school fees, would they feel/act differently?

There are two issues going on here.

One is this particular lad, where the principal problem is that he wasn't listened to when making decisions for post-16 education. Hopefully his parents will listen now and help him find a sensible route that suits him better. I'm not sure his story would have been any different if he's been born in September.

The other is that there are a few disadvantages to deferring which are perhaps not known well enough:

• Occasional problems with sports team and competition rules which mean the child is not eligible for things their peers are doing - some are relaxed enough to include "studying in that year group", but others are not. It's not just sports, although they may be more likely to be strict about age-groups because of physical differences (obviously one month is little different, but the line has to be drawn somewhere).
• School sixth forms only get funding for 16-19 year olds - most sixth formers who make a false start can drop back a year to do different subjects, but if you are overage to start with, you can't. You can still go to an FE college to do A-levels and equivalent, so all is not lost, but choice is reduced.
• Getting itchy feet as friends start work or go off travelling - although in most cases they'll make friends in the year group they're studying in, so it doesn't bother them.

Now that deferral is more common, it will be interesting to see whether the rules get changed on sixth form funding, and whether more organisations will flex on age categories.

(Oh, and there's also the trust fund issue - I think very many people are worried about their children having access to this money before their brains are fully mature. I know of some who have hidden the letters so their kids don't know about it. I'm sure the vast majority will use it wisely, but there's nothing to restrict the minority who don't. Perhaps that one should have been thought through a bit more thoroughly.)

I don’t understand why multiple posters are adamant that the deferral is irrelevant. It seems to be me to be highly relevant as part of the wider picture of parents who have put a lot of input into (and consequent pressure on) their child with the expectation of glittering academic achievement, and who are only now realising that they need to parent the child that they have rather than the one that they expected.

I know a couple of people who entered the army without A levels, and they both made it to office rank pretty quickly then, having left after done their 22 years or whatever it is, went on to successful second careers. Both are now CEOs of large multi national businesses. So I think you might be a bit off the mark, given this lad seems to have more sense of direction than many teenagers.