Disciplining 2 year old

[Roxyrocks]

Hi all,

I'm currently completely at my wits end with my 2 1/2 year old.

She's lashing out frequently- hitting, pinching and pulling (main targets are her 6mo brother and me)

When we tell her off and explain She's hurting people she just laughs and says we're making her sad if we shout at her

Just before she lashes out she sometimes verbalises the thought ie "I hurt mummy, I hurt brother"

Really struggling to know how to put an end to the behaviour as so far she has found all efforts hilarious. I've tried shouting, calmly explaining and time out

Thanks

You have to anticipate her bad behaviour. Work out what her triggers are and then try to constantly head her off at the pass.
Think of loads of things you can ask her to do or conversations you can have that get her attention at that moment.
If she does hit her baby brother then I would bellow, ignore her briefly and then ideally get back on track being normal with her. Nightmare stage. I feel for you.

We do 'cool-off time' if our son is being really naughty in which he goes to his room and we close the door and baby gate and leave him alone for three minutes. His room is very boring as there are no toys in there. Most of the time he's calm after the three minutes is up and says sorry, then we have a hug and go back downstairs.

Anyway OP, obviously the priority here has to be to keep the 6 month old safe, so besides heaping positive reinforcement onto 2 year old for everything she does right, also look at how you can keep them separate, maybe a play pen for 6 month old? Then if you do let them play together and she hurts 6 month old before you can stop her, the consequence is that she can’t play with 6 month old any more. There need to be consequences each time, as she needs to understand that hitting/ pinching someone is a boundary she absolutely must not cross. If she has a tantrum then so be it, that is a good way for her to actually learn to regulate her feelings.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3447048/

Actual research, rather than the reckons of idiots.

Completely untrue.

All available studies around physical punishment make no distinction between a tap on the bum or wrist done calmly as part of a planned response and a parent who flies into a rage and beats their child into hospital.

One response does no harm at all (and is the quickest, clearest and easiest to understand way for a child to be disciplined), while the other is obviously horribly abusive and unacceptable.

People who quote these studies knowing they don't make those distinctions are purposefully misleading parents and potential parents for ideological reasons and clearly aren't actually trying to help them.

Please stop it. I don't know why you would even comment something like that.

OK - let's rule out smacking - it is now illegal, so not an option even if someone thought it might work.

What is pretty clear is that this little girl is angry - with you OP for transferring your affections to a small rival, and with the baby for simply existing.

What she craves is attention in the same quantity as she had before the arrival of the unwanted guest. Now we know that this is an impossibility, but she doesn't. And she has found a brilliant way of getting attention - she hits you or the baby. She does not care whether it is good attention or bad attention - either will do as far as she is concerned.

So what to do......?

I found that splitting the two at every opportunity helped. Hand baby over to OH/mum/friend and focus on her completely for an hour say. Do something special with her that you know she enjoys. Something that feels a bit "grown-up" that singles her out as being bigger - and comment on it: "It's great to do this with you - baby is too little, but you and I can do this together." And if at all possible take her out of the house with just you - even for a short while.

I know it is hard - you are earing your hair out with demands at every turn, but if it helps get over this stage, then it is worth trying to dredge up that ounce of energy for it.

I would say that the question is the wrong one - it is not about punishment it is about prevention. It is about reading the situation and predicting what will set her off. If you know she will kick off when you feed the baby, then be one step ahead of her and get her engaged in something you know she loves - or even big her up as big sister and get her to fetch a bib for the baby. The more she gets that she is valued for herself, the more she will get that she is just as good as her wee brother in your eyes.

I know it is hard - I have reached breaking point in the past. So I do not suggest these things glibly.

The basic rule is she wants attention and that you need to try and maximise the attention for good things and minimise for bad. 'Cos she sees it as a result, whichever it is.

Research which literally in the first few paragraphs describes examples of physical punishment as 'bellowing and beating with paddles'.

Obviously relevant to the situation described by OP and the advice that I and others have given. 🙄

Thanks for proving my earlier point.

I will never understand people who 'tap/smack/hit' their children. Its the most unloving thing you could do.

I absolutely judge you so hard and think you are common as muck.

My nephew grew out of this when he was about 3/4

Before that he just didn't fully understand the concept that he was hurting someone, he understood the words, he understood him hurting but he couldn't apply it to his actions to someone else

He grew out of it (and without being smacked ffs)

Empathy really develops around 4 years old, you can't beat it into someone (although I'm pretty sure it's been beaten out of some)

In the meantime distract and work out triggers like others have said

(and for the tedious - you don't have children it's only your nephew this is MUMSnet people my nephew lives with me)

As opposed to allowing your child to be a violent anti social menace to other children, including their younger siblings?

Who is the real 'unloving' one?

@ColonelDax well shes asking for advise so...

Sounds like she’s enjoying the power. She’s 2 you can stop her, you are in control not her. You need to anticipate, step in immediately, down to her face and a very stern “No you will not hit, you are not allowed to hurt anyone!” Then physically stop her if necessary. Then warn her that if she tries it again she will be put in her room by herself with the door shut. Make sure you follow through! Keep it simple, don’t over explain or negotiate, be consistent.

you need to make it clear this behaviour is unacceptable and there will be consequences.

Ignoring the derailing into a corporal punishment debate...

Consistency is key. Every time she tries to hit/pinch/whatever, sternly say "no, we don't hit others" and remove her from the situation to a safe location where she can stay alone. The idea is that all fun activities, company, toys, etc. are immediately and sharply removed. Then after a minute or two, bring her back and invite her to return to games or whatever. Repeat the instant she attempts to hit again. It's important to react to attempts to hit in the same way even if you managed to intercept her hand or she missed.

I understand the frustration OP. My DD1 also thought for a long time that a telling off was hilarious and this time out approach was the only thing that worked.

So the 2 year old should be done for assaulting the 6 month old as witnessed by adult? 🤨

I beg to differ. If you remember it, it caused trauma. You remember it! You have rationalised it but I bet you can't remember what you had for your 3rd birthday or your favourite jumper.

ALL evidence shows it to be harmful. Children are beaten into submission.

It may have been done for centuries but aren't we more sophisticated now? Clearly not.

OP I think catching the LO when she's good and praising her for this. Ignore poor behavior where possible and remove the baby for safety. It's a fairly normal phase and she uses violence because she doesn't have the verbal skills to express herself. Model kindness and structure interaction with the baby so she is guided with big girl help needed at times so she can build a relationship with the baby.

It's wierd that you think that the law applies the same to an adult and a 2 year old

I personally find time outs far crueller than a smacked bottom.

One is over in seconds and swiftly forgotten about, lesson learnt.

The other is a form of psychological torture that goes on for ages.

I know what hurts children less.

Tell us you don’t know about the age of criminal responsibility without telling us you don’t know about the age of criminal responsibility.

@Devilsmommy
@JustanotherMNSlapperTwat

Any adult witnessing or suspecting an adult of assaulting a child (this includes smacking, skelping, spanking, slapping) can call the police.

It's not that confusing really. Adults can't assault children in Scotland and Wales. HTH

I'm not sure why you tagged me?

Ok then, just keep telling her nicely and popping her for a time out and pray that your 6 month old doesn't end up with any severe injuries because obviously that's been a stellar approach so far🙄

My two year old did this, with exactly the same laughing response. I didn't really want to smack her, but talking/explaining/negotiating did feck all. Time out did nothing either, but I don't think anyone is supposed to do that anymore are they?

In the end, I settled on pushing her away quite firmly, sometimes shouting if she had really hurt me (eg she'd properly scratched, head butted me or a hard well aimed face slap). I'd then demonstrate sadness/pain - my emotions at what she'd done. It was enough to make her jump, and I hope, taught her the lesson that everyone has the right to defend themselves against physical violence.

She was an only child so she had plenty of attention, and she would often do it when we were in close proximity already, e.g. snuggling after a bath, which I never understood but then toddlers are illogical.

Reading the other suggestions with interest.

@ColonelDax try reading on from the first example. It's 20 years of studies, not one example. If you can find me 20 years of studies saying children who are smacked are significantly happier and healthier, I'll concede. Otherwise, stop advising parents to hit their children.

Oh and my brother was smacked and didn't stop hurting me, his little sister. He got sneakier though at hiding it, and worse.

But my entire point is that it's worthless because it makes no distinction.

It'd be like me telling parents that time outs don't work because studies show that locking children under the stairs for hours has negative outcomes. 🙄