DS touched DD, WTF do I do??

[Tazzietoes]

Sorry if this is long.

DS is 7, DD was 4 at the end of August. Today DS had a friend over, who is 8 and in the year above.

They went to play outside in the garden together. DD was being a bit of an annoying little sister and it gave me memories of when I used to follow my sister and her friends around. I wasn’t watching them the whole time, but had the door open to listen and checked every few minutes to make sure they weren’t doing anything they shouldn’t.

I was making them a snack when I heard DD crying. I looked out and she was standing with her jeans and pants around her knees and both boys kneeling next to her. I hate to say it but I exploded, asked what on earth they thought they were doing and to get inside straight away. I sent DS straight ip to his room so I could calm down. I told DD I wasn’t shouting at her, she wasn’t in trouble. I asked what happened and she said that both boys touched her. I asked DS‘s friend what had happened, he said DS pulled down DD trousers and touched her. He said the whole time to stop but DS didn’t.

I went up to DS and asked him what happened. He said DD was annoying them and they wanted her to go away. He admitted touching her and said his friend did too. I repeated that what is inside pants is private and I was very shocked by his behaviour. He was almost crying which he never does, so I think he knows how serious it is.

So WTF do I do now?? DS has always had pretty poor boundaries no matter how much I‘ve tried to teach him. He always gets right in everyone’s face to the point that they push him away. I‘ve always told him that people don’t like it and he needs to back off. But it’s like talking to a brick wall.

He‘s at the age of everything being about willies and bums and poo. But he takes it too far, he keeps pulling down his trousers randomly and laughing his head off.

When he was nearly 6 there was a whole drama at school- he said an older boy (10) had touched his willy at break time. Lots of sleepless nights later, it turns out he was annoying the boy, who hit DS in between his legs. The boy said DS had been showing his willy and always trying to hug him. After this incident, we had strong words with DS about body privacy.

Just a few weeks ago he ran up behind me and pinched me where my pubic hair is. Once again, I sternly told him that what is in pants is private.

I don’t know what to do. I’m worried that DS is going to turn out to be a bad person. He just finds it all hilarious. I know the curiosity is normal but this seems like more than that. He has zero respect for other people’s bodies and obviously hasn’t listened to is when we‘ve discussed it over the years.

In all other ways he is a kind and caring boy who is doing excellent at school and has lots of friends. What should I do now??

I'm sorry, you can't assume that at 7 'there's no sexual element to it.' I remember 'a sexual element' to my life from babyhood, and I wasn't sexually abused. I was the victim of an attempted sexual assault at 7, by two eight year old boys. This would be 1964, so no easy access to porn and no sex ed to influence them. Children were left to run wild in those days, and your hair would curl if you knew what they got up to.

My DD is 5 and regularly tugs her brother's willies in the shower, which she knows she shouldn't do, which is probably why she does it. There isn't a huge difference between 5 and 7. Doesn't mean there isn't a problem, but people do seem to be jumping to the worst case scenario.

I mean there’s curiosity and there’s huge boundaries which are being broken. What are the consequences for these?

I think you need outside help now with regard to services where they can help. It’s worrying behaviour for sure

This. but I would have a chat to the school also and be honest with them and ask how his behaviour is at school. The school should be able to direct you to support/help.
Much ❤️ to you, I know this must be distressing but don't label him just yet x

I agree that your DS behaviour at that age is showing red flags. Most kids that young who engage in this type of behaviour have been abused themselves. Is there any chance this has happened to him? It would seem very odd indeed for this behaviour to come out of the blue.

Sexually abused kids usually show no boundaries around this kind of thing. So I'd be worried what your DS has experienced - I guess he could just be doing it, but where has he learnt this behaviour from?? Kids that young don't have sexual feelings yet (I think from memory when I studied this most kids experience sexual feelings from about the age of 10)

I thought this too.

This is such a difficult situation and not helped by people's extreme viewpoints and absurd comparisons.

Your son is a child. Children are not either good or evil. They are children. He deserves to be treated compassionately and supported rather than blamed. If.youve educated him in the past about privacy and consent, and he continues to ignore you, then there's a problem. My 9 year old understands that private parts are private, and that touching happens by consent. Showing each other rude bits is one thing. Forcibly exposing and touching the genitals of your sister in front of another child is different. She was not complicit. In an adult court of law this would be deemed a sexual assault.

Your daughter also deserves protection. Be sure she is not lost in all of this and knows she can and should tell you of any instances where she has been touched, or felt.uncomfortable. This may not be the first time. Also do not leave them together unattended and put locks on bathroom doors.

My first concern is that your son has witnessed inappropriate sexual contact or been abused himself and he's acting it out on other people. This is so often how abuse is picked up.on. who does he have contact with when you are not there? Could he have seen porn on his ipad? Sometimes my kids watch all kinds of rubbish but hard-core porn is so easy to access. Do you have parental restrictions in place? Who provides your childcare. Older cousins? Older brothers of friends? Showing his Penis to another child then lying about it seems like acting out abuse to me.

School safeguarding officer seems an appropriate response. He may have an underlying issue that causes him to be diainhibited, so perhaps gp for assessment of this? My friends brother has a learning disability and is often sexually inappropriate with people and animals (!) but doesn't know he's doing anything wrong.

He is not a bad boy.

You are not a bad mother

But he is capable of repeating this, and more, and puberty often makes matters so much worse. So act now. Not on Mums net but, along with his father, by getting him and yourselves some support.

Remember he is a child and doesn't need to be punished but understood and supported in a safe way. He is lucky to have a mum prepared to do this. Protect him, your daughter, and other children.

Good luck

Errr. He could be tried in an adult court in 3 years…

I feel sick reading this. I don't think I could have him in the same house as my DD now esp after all you've said he has done previously.

He's sexually abused her. What if he's done it before and you just haven't been there. It's sickening. She should be safe in her own home and right now she isn't.

His previous behaviour only backs this up more.

It's worth bearing in mind a lot of kids who act like this have been abused themselves - it's one of the telltale signs, a lack of boundaries around this type of thing

I think he needs a psychological assessment sooner than later before his behaviour escalates any further.

This

Firstly, protect your daughter and do not allow her to be alone with your son until this is all resolved.

Stop any further playdates for now.

Who has access to your kids? Stop that for now and get some help.

First step might be talking to your son 1-1 and ask him if there is anything he wants to tell you/any worries etc.

Get him an appointment with a play therapist?

Sorry to hear all of this.

did you miss where this a 7 year old , a little boy. Stop projecting adult thoughts into a young child. Yes it's incredibly distressing for the dd but thst doesn't meant the ds is an abuser.
"get him looked at" is an appalling way to speak of a little boy.

I can’t believe you waited until he did this to his sister before having this discussion. He should have been told off after the willy incident or when he pinched you. What is his screen time like - are you properly supervising it? Eg Netflix / Prime will show material for under 18s to all kids, while YouTube Kids needs active management otherwise you’ll get some extremely dodgy stuff aimed at trans people.

Flag with the NSPCC or school's safeguarding.

Seriously, it sounds like your son is being sexually abused, or maybe his friend is a bad influence (whether the friend has been abused himself or dragged up into thinking it's okay to treat girls that way)

I don't think you understand just how grave sexual abuse is, and just how sickening it is that a 7-year-old boy is behaving so sexually inappropriate. Behaviour like this that goes unchecked could lead to the 7-year-old who molested his sister growing up into a rapist or paedophile.

His friend's brother has done something from what the mum said. That is a HUGE concern.

If you are still here OP, has your DS been to their house at all? Could he has been exposed to anything from the friend's brother? Or by the brother doing something?

WTF Switcher this is a problem!!!!!!

Do not ever leave your daughter alone with him

Well you would be wrong I have lived experience of childhood sexual abuse. The impact on the dd doesn't vary but the intent of the other person does.

This. It’s very important that support is given to both children and they’re kept apart.

Unfortunately he’s showing signs that are worrying and need to be nipped ASAP. If brushed under the carpet which some posters seem to encourage, things will only get worse.

But remember he isn’t evil and this doesn’t dictate who he’ll be in the future. I’ve met many adults (male and female) who did what your ds did as a child (loads of tiktoks about this) and many grow up to be deeply remorseful normal well adjusted people.

I think somewhere down the line he may have been exposed to something. Even something as little as seeing a mature scene in a movie or hearing something mature discussed by adults…who knows.

The Most important thing is stopping this behaviour now because of its brushed under the rug instances of this may happen again

OP, totally feel for you. This is horrific. As others have said, you need to contact the school and social services asap, and never EVER leave your son alone with your daughter again. Be alert to the fact that this could be a sign that your DS has been subject to abuse himself. Lots of hugs and reassurance for your daughter, and make sure her teachers are aware. Sending hugs to you 💐

Wow - the worse and most difficult situation. You handled it very well. The fact he was crying means he now knows what he did was absolutely unforgivable.

I do think your son is 7, he isn’t a grown adult. How you handle this is key - make sure he knows what he did was awful and why it’s awful!! Explain it to him and why he can never think about doing this again. A life lesson he will keep with him forever.

Your daughter is very young - make light of it, but tell her no one should touch her there and she always needs to tell mummy if anything happens to her in her life makes her feel unsafe.

The OP came here for advice, so she clearly wants to address this. Let’s not hound her.

Practically, you need to show that you are proactively taking steps to protect your daughter and help your son.

Therefore:

• A calm chat with DD about how what happened isn’t ok, and giving her strategies for alerting an adult when scared.
• A calm chat with DS about what happened, what he was thinking/feeling etc.
• No alone time at all for DD with DS.
• Inform the school yourself, before one of the children makes the disclosure.
• Contact SS or whatever is the equivalent where you live.

Good luck OP.

Thank you for all of the reports. We are aware of this thread. Do please report any posts causing you concern to us and please remember that Mumsnet is a place where parents come to seek advice, so please ensure any comments you add bear this in mind.

Wishing you all the best OP