Quotes from Narcissistic Mothers (& support for their victims) Thread 3

[01Name]

Following on from this thread: www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4610023-to-ask-for-your-quotes-from-narcissistic-mothers?page=39&reply=120137262, started by @itsgoodtobehome as a tongue-in-cheek repository for anecdotes of appalling remarks/deeds from parents/siblings with rampant NPD. It morphed into a place where those of us suffering the effects of such behaviour could share experiences, solidarity, advice and support. It continued to a second thread here: Quotes from Narcissistic Mothers (& support for their victims) Thread 2 | Mumsnet I hope this thread can continue the good work of its predecessors. Your voice will be heard; your opinion and thoughts matter. You are welcome and valued here. The world is a better place with you in it, despite what you might have been conditioned to believe by those who brought you into it. x

I also suspect inter generational trauma. My mother group up incredibly poor with a father who was more concerned about other people's welfare and a mother who had been a spoilt rich woman who had lost everything through war and migration.

As an example, my mother remembers they had 3 chickens yet my mother never remembers them being given any eggs in any form and there was little other protein available. (She remembers the joy when her older brother managed to buy some offal and bring it up and cook it up for his siblings). She suspects her mother prepared the eggs for herself and their father when they had left for school/work. At points my mother was actually malnourished and had several bouts of malaria without medical care. She lost a 2 year old sister to illness because her mother refused to get medical help. Her eldest sister did more to raise her than her mother did.

She then married my father. He wasn't a bad man, but a hopeless husband in many respects. I suspect he had ADHD, he would happily help everyone else and jobs at home were left undone. He would never consult my mother on finances and yet didn't have a clue himself what he was doing. It is only because they were in a tight knit church community and he didn't have vices like drinking, smoking or partying that they were financially stable.

She was left to raise us without his help while working full time at manual shift work. Her poor English skills meant she couldn't be a teacher full time, but instead ran the Saturday language school.

She is incredibly bitter about it all, and I understand why.

Hi everyone,

I mentioned TTC a while ago (and thank you to the PP who offered reassurance!) and DH and I have just found out at the weekend that we’re expecting DC1 😊

It’s really early days (I’m only 4+6), but I’ve made myself a reading list and I’m also doing a free NVC course, so really trying to do all of my homework on how not to be my mum 🙂

The NVC course (non-violent communication) is so eye-opening - there’s a self-assessment tool with a list of skills and you rate yourself on a matrix from ‘unconsciously incompetent’ up to ‘consciously competent’. It’s at NVC Academy, if anyone’s interested.

It’s really driven it home to me how defensive or manipulative or passive-aggressive my DM is in her communication. Everything is ‘it would be nice if you…’/‘haven’t heard from you in XYZ’, rather than openly stating what she wants (or ever asking us how we are). She’s learned guilt-tripping as a means of communication, I think.

In case anyone is interested in the reading list, here’s what I have so far:

• Matrescence - Lucy Jones
• How to talk so kids will listen and listen so kids will talk - Adele Faber and Elaine Mazlish
• Emotional Agility - Susan David
• Non-violent Communication: a language for life - Marshall Rosenberg
• No Bad Parts - Richard C. Schwartz
• The Body Keeps the Score - Bessel van der Kolk
• Good Inside - Becky Kennedy
• It Didn’t Start With You - Mark Wolynn
• The Book You Wish Your Parents Had Read - Philippa Perry

Some of them I’ve read already and will be revisiting, and others are new to me.

The Mark Wolynn book is interesting, as he suggests that as well as the behavioural aspect to intergenerational trauma (e.g. a parent acts towards their children as they were treated in their childhood, thus passing down their trauma?), there’s a kind of spiritual connection to our ancestors. I’m not sure whether I buy that aspect particularly, but I’m going to keep reading and see what happens.

Does anyone have any other recommendations?

What fantastic news @RenewableNewt! Congratulations and thank you for sharing your happiness - sending you virtual hugs xxx

Very useful links. I want to read and understand as much as I can about a narc personality. Even though my NM is dead, her damage continues to ripple out and impact my confidence and anxiety.

“It’s really driven it home to me how defensive or manipulative or passive-aggressive my DM is in her communication. Everything is ‘it would be nice if you…’/‘haven’t heard from you in XYZ’, rather than openly stating what she wants (or ever asking us how we are). She’s learned guilt-tripping as a means of communication, I think. “

This really resonates with me too. She could never ask anything ‘normally’ or directly. It was always either hinted at and couched in subtle ways that put a doubt in my mind that I had somehow failed to recognise or attend to a need and therefore I automatically assumed guilt. You have verbalised so eloquently how a narc uses the passive-aggressive, which hadn’t occurred to me. I endlessly tried to anticipate and therefore preempt her strikes, but she always managed to hit and knock my emotional vulnerability, especially if I let down my guard.

Thank you so much @JohnPrescottsPyjamas, that’s really kind of you! I really appreciate it 😊

Absolutely agree with what you said about their communication being designed to make you doubt yourself or to think you’d done something wrong. When I think back, I spent at least the first 20 years of my life chasing my mum begging for her affection and approval (sometimes metaphorically but as a small child, physically as well 😔).

I don’t even know if she knows she’s doing it, but I can see it clearly now for what it is, and so can my sibling.

And yes to them striking if you let your guard down - I’ve tried before to be open and honest with my mum, eg. about contraception at the age of 17-18, and yes, she threw it back in my face, absolute rage. And she wonders why I don’t want to share anything personal with her.

DH and I were talking yesterday about sharing the baby news after the 12 week scan which will be Christmas-time. He said ‘do you think your parents will mind if we tell mine on Christmas Day and them on Boxing Day?’ and I said ‘yes they will’ 😄 but they’re adults and they’ll have to deal with it.

Already anticipating that the first question will be ‘do DH’s parents know/when did they find out?’

Thank you @WaggledMyAerialAndWolfedMyCustardCreams 🙏🏼

Congratulations on your news @RenewableNewt . How exciting.

Thank you so much @reesewithoutaspoon. it’s really early days still, I know, but I think it’s worth trying to do as much reading/work on myself as possible so I’m starting already.

Thinking I might go back to counselling/therapy after Christmas, and I’ve been making a list of potential issues to work on there - mostly my feelings around my mum being near the baby etc and near me when I’m vulnerable, etc.

We’re really lucky to have DH’s family who will definitely be supportive. I’m dreading my parents’ reaction a bit because I think whatever DH and I decide to do will be wrong (when we tell them, how often we see them, etc).

At the moment, we see my parents probably once a month which I feel is manageable. I think they’d push for a lot more with a new baby around, especially with DH’s family closer by, and then we’d be back in the same situation we had when I first moved away/did teacher training, which was awful.

The funny (and different) thing is, I already feel this kind of inner strength forging, because I know I’d have to protect our DC in a way that I didn’t feel able to do for myself.

Have others of you felt similarly? That you can advocate for your DC more strongly?

I suppose the difference is that we were only DC ourselves when our mothers were acting out towards us, so we did what we could do get by (emotionally and mentally speaking, in my case). As adults, all of us here have spent a lot of time and energy processing what happened.

💐 to everyone

I think you’re right about forging inner strength becoming a parent yourself.

Maybe it’s because you’re now in control and free to give and receive love and emotional security without it being conditional or rationed - which it always is with a narc parent. I was only ‘lovable’ when I was playing her game, telling her what she wanted to hear or dancing to her tune. Your relationship with your new DC will be so different, completely normal, well balanced and so positive compared your own experience as a child.

I felt I was going some way to righting some wrongs when I had my DCs (I didn’t have them for that reason!) but by knowing and growing up with an example of bad parenting, made me determined I would never treat my own the same way.

She was very keen on and a great believer in physical punishment for the most minor things. It was incredibly empowering too for me to know she had seen me handling a toddler strop or calmed down a potential flashpoint without resorting to a hard smack, which was always her go to method and her immediate unwelcome suggestion.

You are right @RenewableNewt and @JohnPrescottsPyjamas
I was guilted into visiting my parents (who lived in a totally different part of the UK to me) when my eldest DC was 18 months. On the 3rd day my NM thought I was out of earshot and said she would beat my DD's bum and that she was a wicked, unlikeable girl like her mother (me). My DD had accidentally dropped a toy. I got an earlier flight back home and my NM never got a chance to see my DD again or my later DC. I have no regrets! Protecting your DC from all the batshittery is the best thing you can do. Your DC need that more than they need contact with a grandparent just to meet societies norms.

My heart breaks for the childhood all of us on here have had. We should never have been told such horrible things about ourselves or denied loving physical contact. Someone upthread related how they can never recall their mother cuddling them - I experienced the same. A few photos of me on her lap as a baby - that's it. Physical contact was always to poke or hit me or point out flaws.

As I got older I found my mother's touch repulsive and it made me recoil. My eldest brother and myself who bore the brunt of her rages ( rather than the golden child and youngest brother) don't ever refer to her as our mother if we discuss her but call her by her First name.

I was the scapegoat child and (in addition to random beatings etc) was constantly told
I should "have been drowned at birth" - this was a favourite
I was "fundamentally unlikeable" - this has affected me the most long term
That "no one could ever love me"

I was "too ugly to be seen in public" and she was ashamed at having to accompany me anywhere
It would be better if I could wear a paper bag over my head
I was born plain bad/evil
That she didn't know how she could have given birth to child like me
That I was totally and utterly useless and the world would be betterif I was dead.

I know that none of it is true but even nearing 60 years old I do still feel somewhat"unlikable" deep down and that I'm not quite as "normal" as other people(even though I know there is no "normal.")

As I got older I found my mother's touch repulsive and it made me recoil.

This really resonates with me. I moved out at 17, moved to mainland Europe at 21.
Everyone here kisses on the cheek and hugs so my NM tries to do the same when she is here. I do not like her touching me. It feels so fake.
I have also realised that I shared too much info when I was having problems with my ex-H as she uses this against me now by bringing up things that happened over 20 years ago.
My dad was the smacker, not her but I can’t remember any hugs or anything from her at all during my childhood.
My adult DD is visiting NM now. I’m worried about how DD will be with me when she comes back as I’m sure they will have discussed my throwing them out and going NC.
Also my DD picks up expressions my NM uses against me and also my previous partner who was also a narc.

Oh my @SapatSea
To be subjected to that verbal abuse as a child is just horrendous.

Why was she like that ???

Wow, that must have hammered your self-esteem, having such things said to you about yourself from your own mother! How have you managed as an adult? How much did it affect your life? How awful for you.

Was it jealousy - it sounds like she was threatened - were you more intelligent or more attractive? I have realized that my mother resented any attention to me by my father - so my mother must have felt very inadequate in herself. I did know someone whose mother use to flirt with her boyfriend when she was about 20 years old - I can't imagine how embarrassing that must have been. What gets into these mothers? It's really horrendous what some of us have had to deal with growing up.

That’s abuse. I am so sorry that no one saved you. EMDR if you have not found it is powerful.

Just discovered this thread and have been reading through it and the 2 previous ones. So many things resonate with me ... I believe my mother to be a covert narcissist, so she's not interested in physical appearance but mostly attacks via means of passive aggressive little digs - which she of course denies and claims that it's only my perception or that I am overly sensitive.

I've been low contact for years, but after my last visit (infrequent anyway) I am now no contact. Basically my parents threw me and DD out after I finally gave way to a response to the constant stream of jibes. But not before issuing a torrent of abuse at me about what a a pitiful person I was, how I'd never amounted to anything and how I was a dreadful parent. The funniest thing (if you can call it funny) that I was so used to disassociating myself when I'm with them, that instead of getting upset by what they were saying I realised that lot of it was demonstrably untrue and in many cases they were projecting - they were accusing me of treating my children how they'd treated me as a child.

The lightbulb moment was when I get home and told my children (now teens) that I was going no contact but I wouldn't stand in their way if they wanted to maintain a relationship with their grandparents. DS said he hadn't like them since he got to about 8 and beyond the "playing with them" stage. DD said she only came on visits because she thought I needed the support and never felt my parents had any interest in her. So basically my children have been able to think more clearly than I could. Somewhat ironic as I'd kept in touch for as long as I had as I wanted the children to know their grandparents.

So sorry that others are going through this.

“It was easier to just let him get on with it”
That sentence haunts my mind countless times a day.
When I was pre-teen, I was abused in all senses of the word by a slightly older family member. But because he had very challenging behaviour that couldn’t be managed, that was her answer.
I have a severe phobia of a very common household object due to what happened to me. I can’t be in a room with them, or even see photos, I feel physically sick, dizzy, suffocated.
She knows why.
When I told my partner about the phobia but didn’t divulge why, he asked my mum (not his fault, he was curious) and she mocked and teased me for it.
I think we will eventually end up NC. She is becoming increasingly cruel towards me, spiteful and dismissive.
Dotes on the family member, though.
Yes I’m bitter about it, but trying to work on that as best as I can.
I’ve never told anyone before, hoping getting it down makes me feel a bit better, lighten the load maybe.

Oh @Chubble
You poor darling.
That is awful.
I think I would have gone NC long ago.

That must have been such a powerful moment. I have done so much more with my family since having children (4 and 2) but some of the things which have happened in that time have made me so uncomfortable. This has really made me rethink acting due to obligations. Thank you for sharing.

@Chubble I am so, so sorry to read this. I wish I could say something to help, but sometimes words are just so useless and inadequate.

Even though none of us on this thread know each other, we’re a sisterhood, no one here will laugh or mock or disbelieve anything and I truly hope you find some comfort being here. Xx

@Chubble - my god that's awful. Try and go NC as soon as you can. It's a long road to heal but we are with you!

I really hope one day when your DM wants something or something happens to her you can say "no it's easier to let you get on with it".

As you can see I'm not big in forgiveness anymore.

We are here x

Just heard from my DD that when she was visiting my NM that she was questioning her about me, asking if she thought I would ever contact them again, said she was upset I did not wish her a happy birthday. She attacked me over my mental health. I don’t feel it is my place to be reaching out and actually feel much better with myself for going NC.
DD is feeling very torn.
No one else in the family was there when I had the argument with my parents.
My brother also bragged to DD that he hadn’t replied to me because of the argument and he has only heard one side of it. I did not realise that he was not replying on purpose and had contacted SIL about niece’s birthday present and got a reply. Then I found out about the ghosting so I’ve just said I won’t be getting anything - happy to take my generosity but won’t talk to me. WTF?

@NCparents - I used to get that with my DM. How my being upset (over something she had done or said) upset her. So it's all about her then. When I went NC I didn't even bother trying to say why or I was. Because nothing is ever their fault.

My DM used to try and get to me via others as well. She would make up things in the spirit of being a good mother and rely on people being naive. I always knew what she was up to.

If you can just leave it. You've explained your position to your DD.

Absolutely this.

My NM would actually engineer arguments to make herself the victim, and therefore bring it to be all about her. It was almost as though she couldn’t bear the fact that others around her were relaxed and enjoying themselves

At family gatherings when everyone was quite happy, she would have to throw in a hurtful or contentious comment. One Christmas Day, she announced how much she had liked DD’s ex BF and how stupid she had been to end the relationship. DD had been with BF for years before she found he had cheated on her numerous times, consequently her self confidence had been shaken and things were still raw. NM couldn’t let it go even though DD was visibly upset. In the end, I turned on NM who then turned on the tears and said how unwelcome we had all made her feel and she didn’t know what she had done and announced she wanted to be taken home immediately - she lived 2 hours away. She successfully ruined the atmosphere and any good will and seemed to take pleasure in having done so as 10 minutes later, she was chatting away as though nothing had happened!

We were poles apart both with religion and politically (she was Right of Attila the Hun and a devoted church attendee) but I’ve always believed it’s a mistake to fall out with anyone over sensitive subjects and it’s better to agree to disagree. However, she couldn’t resist pushing my buttons knowing I had strong personal views about certain issues and wouldn’t stop until she got a reaction out of me. As soon as she succeeded, again the tears would start and she would literally wail that I clearly ‘hated’ her and how God would judge me for my treatment of her!

My one regret is that I never felt strong enough to go NC when she was alive. She was emotionally exhausting and draining, but I always had this sense of obligation and duty to be a daughter. I would mentally start each visit with a clean sheet of optimism, thinking this time I won’t let her get to me, I would just smile sweetly and I’ll be able to handle her, but I always left her feeling wrung out and fragile and it usually took me several days to return to ‘normal’ The legacy of which is now high anxiety, overthinking comments others make and hyperawareness of situations.

@JohnPrescottsPyjamas about not being able to bear that others were happy around them, my DM would almost without exception ruin holidays, Christmases, birthdays etc with her drama and moods.

I remember one birthday having a sleepover and my friends and I accidentally broke an ornament when we were playing in my room (a holiday souvenir bottle of sand). I think I was maybe 8 or 9. My mum’s rage was extraordinary and so over the top. I remember being both terrified of her anger and also mortified that it was also in front of my friends.

I remember us all sitting in silence around the kitchen table, and after that we still went to the zoo for a birthday treat and I trailed around in silence still. It went on all day. After that, as I got older, I avoided bringing friends round because I was so embarrassed by DM’s over the top anger.

She also is incapable of starting a normal conversation with any of us. She’ll text two words into the family group chat, or something like ‘the thing I always thought would happen has happened!!’, and expect us to leap on begging her to tell us or impart her wisdom. It’s an incredibly frustrating way of communicating (lately I’ve stopped replying).

She also used to just exclaim ‘oh!’ and that was our cue to ask her what had happened, rather than her just saying it in the first place like a normal person starting a conversation.

She never asks about me, DH, my work, anything about us. It feels really lonely that everything is on her terms and we’re all meant to kowtow to her. I can’t imagine treating my own DC like she does (even though she’s ‘mellowed’ in recent years and we’re supposed to have forgotten how she treated us. I haven’t and can’t forgive how she behaved).