My sons school have raised safe guarding concerns

[Livelove0x]

Due to unfortunate circumstances me and my three children have had to move quite a way from school, we get a bus or taxi then a 25 minute train and a 20 minute bus to school. With my youngest son now being at nursery and starting at 8.30 my 13 year old daughter takes my 6 year old son on the bus from town to school, I put them on in the morning and meet them off it after school. The bus stop is outside school so there are no main roads to cross, my daughter is quite mature for her age and I have no issues with her making sure he’s safe, she has a contract phone and we communicate during the bus ride. The school found out today that this is what we are doing and have raised concerns, I am trying my best to do what I can in our situation. Does anyone have any advice because if my daughter can’t take him I’ll be late dropping my youngest and late picking up my 6 year old. School want a meeting tomorrow after school, what do I say

I also picked up and left school 20min early to make it in time to get her,

My school wouldn't have allowed leaving early to collect a younger child. My parents paid another parent to look after my sister until I picked her up. No child should miss schooling to care for another child. Your parents were wrong to make you do that and your school were wrong allowing it.

Good luck OP, you're doing great by the sounds of things haven't been great.

I can't believe people have issue with 13 (almost 14) yo taking 6 (almost 7) yo to school. I'm from a different country originally, where 7 year olds take that bus ride themselves to school (not a school bus, but in a normal bus).

I wonder if it's a cluster of things that have led to school raising a safeguarding concern.
Sudden move, a younger child being supervised by a 13 year old to and from school with a long commute, not seeing the parent would all suggest a family who might need some Early Help or at the very least a conversation about what support might help them.

I also wonder given that the 13 year old is doing a primary school drop off first, whether they're late to school due to having to remain in loco parentis until the primary school are ready to take children who aren't in breakfast club. That's a fairly small window if the secondary start times are anything like my local ones. If she's repeatedly late due to dropping off a sibling that might also be a trigger for a discussion.

I agree with CapEBarra's advice. Safeguarding isn't about judging parents or sticking the boot in. It's about making sure families have the right support.

England and our primary wouldn't allow a 13 year old to collect, drop off is more chaotic so they don't notice or ask but at pick up wouldn't release a child to a 13 year old.
I think a 6 year old is too big a responsibility for a 13 year old who can barely look after themselves and are known to be doozy when crossing the road etc.
The school is right. you need to work with them and find a better solution.

The OP has explained it is a bus with other kids and parents on it.

What is it that makes it 'not OK' in your opinion?

I know someone who was in the back of the car when her mum crashed and died. That doesn't mean cars are not an OK way to transport kids.

Yes, the bus could breakdown - but this very rarely happens.

Bloody mad. A 20 minute bus ride with them safe at each end. It's fine.

It is clearly working fine. Do not give up your job. You need it. Tell school she's been doing it a while and is clearly capable. We treat kids like babies these days. It's good for her to be responsible and learning at a sensible age. 13 is not that young.

I work in primary school and my daughter collects my 9 year old boy from school and they wait until I get there to pick them up as I finish just after they do. Lots of our younger children are picked up by older siblings.
I might have a word with the parent to make sure everything was OK and the older sibling was confident doing this but to raise a safeguarding concern straight away without talking to you seems a bit OTT imo.
I work in a deprived city school and this would be the least of our concerns if we knew the parents were responsible and not neglecting the children. It sounds as if you are doing your best and have their best interests at heart. I am also a single mum to 3 and it's tough.

OP don’t quit your job! The school is not in charge here. They have concerns, that’s good: you can address them and see what help they are offering. If they are offering no help then you thank them for their concern and carry on. I don’t see the problem with the bus ride at all, and think those that do probably drive everywhere and over-worry about taking the bus.

I don’t think anything will happen OP. There’s only a handful of weeks of term left, and as long as you will be moving back to the area soon then I can’t see any social worker having the time or inclination to take this further. I think the school are just doing what they have to do.

Do NOT give up your job.

If school have an issue they can pay for a taxi.

to raise a safeguarding concern straight away without talking to you seems a bit OTT imo.

How does raising a safeguarding concern differ from requesting a meeting to talk to the OP about safeguarding? Aren't they synonyms?

Working in a safeguarding role, I imagine the school just want to chat and make sure you've got any support you need. Have you disclosed the domestic violence to the school? If yes, they will be aware that DV makes your children vulnerable so it is only natural that they would be looking out for them and you. If not, then they may be concerned that you've moved so far from the school and want some sort of answers to check everything is ok.

What do I tell them?

Maybe ask them of they have any alternative solutions because you need to work to live. Ask them what they would do in your situation and if they understand it's out of necessity.
Has your daughter been late to pick him up or has she said anything to them?
Is it possible she dropped a comment and then they became concerned?

No, you don't request a formal meeting every time you want to ask a parent a question or check they are OK. If you did you'd be at school 24 hours a day.

Well that seems bonkers, I'd think it much safer than walking and crossing busy roads! But I'm sure knowing you are meeting them will help alleviate concerns in that case.

Whilst it may not be ideal in this day and age, children in general are far more capable than we give them credit for AND in a safe situation, where there are other parents and children about I cannot see why this is an issue. The majority of harm that comes to children is from their own parents, caregivers and others close to them. AND happens behind closed doors.

Back in the 60s I caught buses home on my own from 6 and from 7 took my little ;sister to school on 2 buses. I do not think or believe this is in anyway acceptable now BUT we were capable.

Whilst I accept that we definitely need safeguarding and that these things need to be checked up on; I don't believe kids are inherently stupid AND, to an extent, the more they are trusted and expected to behave responsibly, the more they will fulfill those expectations.

Little children should not be forced into cleaning chimneys, or being totally self reliant but they are not help;ess babies either

As some PPs have said, absolutely use this opportunity to access and push the school to help you access all the help you can get. 'Lean in' to the meeting, tell them it's great they can see what a difficult journey you have, even if temporarily, and clearly their concerns mean they want your child/children in their school so what can they do to help you?

It’s close to summer holidays. Postpone the meeting and try not to reschedule until next school year which gets you closer to 14 and 7.

the age thing is fine but this is a very very long journey for primary school - and I imagine that is why school are concerned.

I'm sorry OP it must be really tough if you have had a lot of change. But I can see why the school are intervening here - it is probably out of concern.

There will be caring and good primary schools with places within walking distance - surely for your children it's better you move? Are you sure you will be returning to the area?

perhaps visit some more locally? To get a feel for them?

I think children are capable of far more than we as adults think if they are given the chance and framework. I think the framework is not in place in the UK as the situation the OP describes is not a common one, so other adults are not looking out for children in the same way that they do in countries where this would be the norm. I lived in the UK when my children were small and now live in a city in Germany where the official age for children to be allowed to travel on their own on buses / underground / trains is 6, and younger if they have already started school. Very many children do this. It is also not the case that children have to be „picked up“ from school. At the end of lessons they just leave. As a side note, I think the culture in the UK of children being taken to and picked up from school by an adult exacerbates the childcare problem and cost. Here I leave for work when my children leave for school, in the opposite direction. I time getting home for them getting home and we meet at home. They have a key for the occasions where they are here slightly before me. It means that I can fit an extra hour and a half into my working day compared to if I had to drop and pick up them up. The point is where i live now (major city, more than a million inhabitants) the OPs 6 year old would be allowed to do that journey on their own even without the 13 year old. German children are not more capable than British ones, but the framework is completely different.

I agree.

I would say that you have risk assessed - do have a good think about all the things that could go wrong.

You have discussed the findings and conclusions of the risk assessment with your 13 year old.

Tell them that this is your decision as a parent and you are happy and it WILL c

When I used to teach at a high school we were all aware of the children in our last classes of the day who needed to leave promptly to collect younger siblings at the local primary school. It was never, ever an issue. We would never keep them behind and all of them took their responsibility to their siblings very seriously. The only problem I would see down the line is if your 13yo wanted to start doing any before or after school activities, but hopefully by then you'll have moved a bit closer OP. Good luck and I hope the school are actually going to offer you support.

My best friend moved due to DV last year and her kids school were totally unhelpful, so she had a ridiculous 1.5 hour plus school run similar to yours involving taxis, trains and buses, except no older child to help, and the school wouldn't allow them to be dropped off 10 mins later than start time. That was the closest to school start time she could get on the earliest train available. She was gutted as she wanted the consistency of the same school for her dc after all they'd been through, but she did eventually have to move them to a school closer to where she's now staying. Make sure you point out that factor in your meeting, it's so important to be able to keep the dc in their school with their safe, established relationships, and your 13yo is doing a great thing facilitating this. She sounds a love, OP!

It's really common for older siblings to pick up primary school kids here. In fact secondary schools here generally finish earlier to allow for that to happen. I wouldn't think twice about a 13 year old picking up from our primary school

*continue!

OP it sounds like you are doing well
under difficult circumstances. Well done for leaving.

If social services are anything to go by they have much much bigger fish to fry.