Do people physically force kids?

[Anonymouslyposting]

My 2.5 year old DD is going through the terrible twos. She is a lovely, clever, kind little girl but I am having to take a lot of deep breaths at the moment…

She won’t do anything she’s asked to - get up, get dressed, eat, drink, go out, do any activity we suggest, have her vitamins, brush her teeth or go to bed. She’s intermittently rejecting my DH who used to be a firm favourite and has started occasional hitting (she seems more to be trying to see our reaction that hurt us). Apparently she is good as good at nursery but is the same with her grandparents.

I understand that this is developmentally normal, she’s testing boundaries and asserting herself, particularly as we have a 4 month old who is taking my attention and I’m sure has been unsettling for her.

But what do we do? Do we really have to physically force her into her clothes/the buggy/to brush her teeth every time? I’ve tried explaining things to her, waiting until she gets bored and gives in (but I don’t always have time for this), mirroring her feelings but none of this works consistently. I’m sure she’ll go out of this phase but is it normal for everything to be a fight until then?

Not to self. Tell toddlers they're bizarre and they should stand still when I change their nappy. I mean I tried the latter but, maybe if I tell them they're bizarre they'll comply.

Seriously, just my two who like to collapse their legs so you can't get a new nappy on cos it's hysterically funny (apparently) or decide naked butt time in the best time to learn to do the twist cos you can frikkin fasten the tags? Maybe I just have extraordinarily awful children being raised by particularly shit parents.

Safely restraining them as per her consultant, she's already said.

Because not taking the meds and ending up in hospital or worse isn't really an option with a chronically ill child.

Haha yeah good luck convincing my eldest medicine is a fun drink.

Never ever had to force the little, out anything in a syringe an they'll self administer it. Eldest, no way.

Almost like kids are different eh.

Unfortunately yes..I've had to physically force DD4 into her clothes in the morning. Wrestle her to brush her teeth. I carried her kicking and screaming into the car seat the other day because she was just being so unbelievably difficult.. if I sat there and did the gentle parenting approach we'd never get anything done! It's over in 5 minutes.

They can't wear what they want if it's near freezing and pouring with rain and you've got a mile to walk to school and they don't like having the rain cover on.

You can't stop half way, dry them off and pop them into their snow suit. You can't let them go out for an hour in just a nappy in that weather. It's abuse and school would rightly raise a concern of I dropped DS off in terrible weather with a soaked toddler in just a nappy.

I took my son to nursery in PJ's once as he refused to get dressed and wouldn't let me dress him.

I collected one from nursery in his socks, and walked him home (20 minutes, urban pavements and roads), after he refused to put his shoes on. He walked all the way in socks without any complaint . Almost as stubborn as his mother.

Would never force eating. But explained clearly that toothbrushing had to happen, same for seatbelts.
I found the phrase “easy way, or hard way?” useful.

The very big difference between you and a lot of people on this thread is that you have been shown how to restrain your child SAFELY.
And that’s a really big thing because there is a way to it and I doubt many people know how to do this. I certainly don’t.

Most able bodied people who've been picking up, nursing, carrying and handling their child for months can work out for themselves how to safely and gently restrain it. Ours lay on their back on a changing mat for all nappy changes ; which involved washing bottoms, SHARP PINS and a carefully folded cotton nappy. Nobody could jump up and run away. Nobody (including me) ever got pricked.

I used to give a choice! The easy way or the hard way 😆

I do love it when people think 'getting creative' is the answer to everything. Believe me I tried every trick in the book to get medicine down my youngest before we ended up in hospital due to her being extremely poorly - it still took 2 nurses and me to get medicine into her! And yes - we did physically force her to take it, and that was when she was incredibly unwell and actually had less fight than usual. There are ways to restrain a child without hurting them and brushing them, I think SS would take a rather dim view of medically neglecting a child too.

That’s a fair comment.
i always told/took dc to brush their teeth. For that very reason.

However, making it what could become a traumatic experience would not help that.

We learnt later in that one of the dc is autistic with sensory issues. If I had forced them to brush their teeth no matter what, pinning them down to do so each time they said NO, it would have become a very traumatic experience for them. Instead, supporting them trying, insisting they would try etc… allowed them to get round it in their own way.
Im very happy I did that tbh. Because otherwise it would have become a twice a day fight for a very very long time - way pass the time you can simply ‘pin them down’.

Yep. That was my dcs too!

And one reason why entering in a battle of will would always end badly. I soon learnt to do my best to avoid any situations like this.

That's a fair point, my kids didn't find it traumatic though and I wouldn't have done it if they did.

I don't think anyone is taking issue with a statement along the lines of "I don't force my DC because I've never found a situation where I needed to" or "because it would make things worse"

It's more "Wow such terrible parents all of you ever physically overpower children, how terrible and traumatic for them!" pearl clutching. When it's a totally normal and fine thing to do, as long as you're being sensible, doing it for something reasonable, and using other tools where possible. Everyone uses physical force for safety issues. Everyone carries little tiny babies around and puts them where we want them, because you can't ask them. Little children have no sense, and sometimes the easiest and most sensible thing to do is just to make something happen, rather than endlessly negotiating with them.

Nobody is saying yeah it's a great motivation technique, first choice.

Nobody is saying people who never use force are bad parents.

The OP was just looking for some reassurance, and yes, it's OK.

I think that’s fair as well. And I guess you judge it on the individual child. With my DD, she was happy to have her teeth brushed 95% of the time, but on the odd evening she’d be generally playing up and a refusal to have her teeth brushed was part of that. So with her I didn’t want to teach that it was optional if she was being difficult and didn’t want to. Now she’s older (4 in a couple of weeks) I can’t force her because she just clamps her mouth shut. It’s very rare she refuses but the other day she was having a tantrum and I couldn’t have forced her so said “ok, I’m not cross, but I won’t be shouted at. Please come and get me when you’ve calmed down and we’ll brush your teeth and have a story”. That worked in about 30 seconds but I appreciate would not work for all children.
If I was having to force it every day, or they were very distressed by it every time then I’d probably have reconsidered.

Yes, this was my approach. I didn’t have the patience to do all this choice stuff … mine had teeth brushed and faces washed whether they wanted it or not. They went in car seats and buggies when I said. It wasn’t always easy - but my adult and teen sons have survived just fine.

Some of you have clearly never had to deal with a 20 month old that has learnt to suspend his body in such a way that it’s rigid on the back but completely floppy in the limbs when he doesn’t want to go in the buggy 😂 sometimes a clear firm instruction works, sometimes a snack bribe, and sometimes I have to wait until he takes a breath and use the split second to bend him in the middle and my god I’ve never done anything in my life as quickly as I can clip in that buckle. On working mornings, I can’t cajole, I have a pissing train to catch.

Car seat.
To get into the car seat if they are arching their body if you tickle them they sometimes crumple so if you are quick you can get it done up. Car seat is non negotiable and sometimes you need to have a hell of a fight with them until they realise they will not win.

Teeth brushing.
We had success with the brusha brusha brusha song from Grease. Also non negotiable but I never felt happy trying to force it so tried to make it fun. Oh, getting them to make animal noises that bared their teeth was good.

Getting dressed.
Racing them to get dressed works well. Also works for going to bed. And getting up and downstairs.

Clothes and food and drink.
Not worth fighting about. Let them wear what they want. If they get cold or hungry there's consequences. Carry coats and healthy snacks.

Vitamins.
Why are you giving a child vitamins? But for medicine (DS has a chronic condition so has medicine every day) stickers are good.

Going out
Walk out the door and say 'ok, bye, see you later'.

Pick your battles and try to make things fun in some way.

Why are you giving a child vitamins?

The NHS recommends vitamin d for all children (I think until they're 5 but could be wrong).

@JaninaDuszejko the NHS recommends vitamins for all under 5s once weaned I believe. And for those being breastfed I think too. We put his drops in his morning milk.

But back to the OP, I have quite an easygoing toddler so not many battles. But giving him a choice works. For eg, he always says no to teeth brushing so I say, we're going to brush teeth now, do you want to sit on the stairs or in the highchair? He picks stairs everytime and is so easy as he puts his head back!

I have a certain tone I reserve for moments I really need it and that generally works too.

But honestly, I just have an easy going only child. Thank goodness as I'm not known for my patience!

There's not much allowance on this thread for difference in temperament of children!

Two of my children I've never had to physically force to do anything. There has always been a way to make it a game, or bribe with a sticker chart e.t.c.BUT one of my son's is STUBBORN. When he was inhospital just shy of a year old, it took me AND two nurses to hold him for blood tests. He fought his vaccinations as well and I had to hug him very tight so the doctor could do it. He hadsome very nasty antibiotics (not the nice banana flavour amoxicillin, somthing really bitter and sharp). He had to be forced to have that, but if not he'd have had to go back on IV, and that was a nightmare as he was consistently ripping his cannula out so they'd used both hands and feet by that point...

If you've never had to use force, that's great. But sometimes it's required for the health/safety of your child and it would be neglectful NOT to force them. Some circumstances/children are more challenging than others.

OP, a certain amount of resistance is very normal at 2.5. Keep doing all the things that you're doing/people are suggesting on here to encourage compliance while you wait this stage out. It passes. But it a small amount of force is required now and then, it's not going to damage your child. They'll be more open to reason soon enough.

To many posts now to RTFT so apologies if this has already been suggested.

When my dd was a toddler, she sometimes refused to brush her teeth or to let me brush them for her (which I always did after ger turn as young children can't be relied on to do a thorough job).

But she loved pretend games so what often worked for us was turning toothbrushing into a pretend game.

She might refuse to brush her teeth or let me do it if I was Mummy, but if I was a dentist and talking a load of crap while I brushed her teeth, she was usually fine.

Car seat.
To get into the car seat if they are arching their body if you tickle them they sometimes crumple so if you are quick you can get it done up. Car seat is non negotiable and sometimes you need to have a hell of a fight with them until they realise they will not win.
> Tickling is still a form of force, no?

Teeth brushing.
We had success with the brusha brusha brusha song from Grease. Also non negotiable but I never felt happy trying to force it so tried to make it fun. Oh, getting them to make animal noises that bared their teeth was good.
> Been endlessly discussed on thread already.

Getting dressed.
Racing them to get dressed works well. Also works for going to bed. And getting up and downstairs.
> Yes except when it doesn't.

Clothes and food and drink.
Not worth fighting about. Let them wear what they want. If they get cold or hungry there's consequences. Carry coats and healthy snacks.
> Discussed already

Vitamins.
Why are you giving a child vitamins? But for medicine (DS has a chronic condition so has medicine every day) stickers are good.
> And if they're in a state well past where stickers will even be noticed let alone cared about?

Going out
Walk out the door and say 'ok, bye, see you later'.
> Surely this is manipulative, which to me is much worse than straightforward pick them up and bring them with you.

I'm not saying that I've never pretended to leave without them, but in general, I don't like it as a technique as I don't actually want them to think I would leave them alone, and I don't like using fear as a motivator, I think that's awful.

Also, it may backfire if they call your bluff and say "OK bye"

Yeah, I'm not sure scaring a child into doing what you want is any better than forcing them?
Plus at least one of mine didn't care if you left without him.

As a nanny I’ve worked with a lot of kids and about half of them wouldn’t give a shiny shit about a sticker for good behaviour. Just would not care. And the most stubborn child I worked with, if I had said, ‘ok bye!’ He straight up would have shrugged his shoulders and gone happily back inside to play with his toys in peace.

I had to physically carry him out of a lot of places. Kicking and screaming. ALL other tactics were exhausted. I learnt to carry him like a log so I didn’t get kicked. You cannot and should not negotiate with a child in that state, they just need to be removed.

Gosh what a great thread, we run ourselves ragged with our oldest trying to build a trusting relationship without lowering our standards to the gutter too much.

In hindsight he has some real sensory issues that we had nothing to compare with, but I think the tips that worked for me is that ok force him if something is essential, but always apologise and offer a cuddle at a suitable point afterwards, and "discuss what happened". It's amazing that even if your tone doesn't reassure them, it makes your own feeling more empathetic, and often you can hit on another approach for next time (there's always a next time) but you're also increasing your relationship which does seem to buy something.

Also teeth brushing is all over this thread, but not seen our approach, which is that tooth brushing must happen 90% of the time. So he always gets a choice, but if he says no more than once it's time for a discussion/rethink when calm. The eventual situation is he brushes first and then I go over a second time.

Similar with hair washing, oh my goodness I was on the fence about wearing ear defenders even, but I managed to not wash his hair for about 3 weeks before introducing step by step where he could say Go and Stop. Yes it took ages but luckily I had the time and patience and it did wonders for our relationship and also it taught him language to enforce boundaries which is a useful lesson (IE I don't want to condition him to accept people forcing things on him unnecessarily)

I think overall the lesson for me was to use force as a very last resort with warning, and use it as an opportunity to reconnect and try to come up with a better way for future.

Also finally I feel for all those whose children are even more challenging and those who don't have the luxury of time and energy to build this relationship with their child. I realise we are lucky in that way.