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Do people physically force kids?

179 replies

Anonymouslyposting · 06/06/2023 19:42

My 2.5 year old DD is going through the terrible twos. She is a lovely, clever, kind little girl but I am having to take a lot of deep breaths at the moment…

She won’t do anything she’s asked to - get up, get dressed, eat, drink, go out, do any activity we suggest, have her vitamins, brush her teeth or go to bed. She’s intermittently rejecting my DH who used to be a firm favourite and has started occasional hitting (she seems more to be trying to see our reaction that hurt us). Apparently she is good as good at nursery but is the same with her grandparents.

I understand that this is developmentally normal, she’s testing boundaries and asserting herself, particularly as we have a 4 month old who is taking my attention and I’m sure has been unsettling for her.

But what do we do? Do we really have to physically force her into her clothes/the buggy/to brush her teeth every time? I’ve tried explaining things to her, waiting until she gets bored and gives in (but I don’t always have time for this), mirroring her feelings but none of this works consistently. I’m sure she’ll go out of this phase but is it normal for everything to be a fight until then?

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MagicBullet · 07/06/2023 10:34

RoseMarigoldViolet · 07/06/2023 10:30

Yes, but I agree with another poster who said to pick your battles. Decide what are the basic standards that your child needs to comply with and enforce these. We found that our children started complying fairly quickly when they realised that we were serious every day.

Yep. Totally with you there.

Climbles · 07/06/2023 10:35

Physical restraint won’t harm most toddlers because they won’t try hard enough to get away that they hurt themselves. ND kids, when having a meltdown, may need to be handled differently.

RoseMarigoldViolet · 07/06/2023 10:35

I remember that it was challenging having a toddler when you need to do the school run for the older children. You need to have the toddler in some sort of weather appropriate clothes and in the buggy to walk to school. Sometimes if time was running out they might be in pyjamas with a coat over the top just so that we weren’t late for school. It can definitely be a tricky age, but it does pass!

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about these subjects:

MrsLilaAmes · 07/06/2023 10:46

Prettypaisleyslippers · 06/06/2023 20:35

I have friends whose kids genuinely suffer for them not forcing them to do stuff. Rotten teeth, cystitis from not drinking enough. “Am I meant to stand over them and insist that they drink?” Yes, fucking yes you do!!!!!!

This drinking one has me curious - I've always felt it was something that couldn't be physically forced. You can lead a horse to water etc.

So yes, I stand there and insist they drink. I bribe them - three big sips then you can go back to your game/finish your water glass and you can have some squash next etc. I've done reward charts. I've made it competitive between siblings. I've offered choices: milk or water? I've made sure they always have access to fresh water. I have held the cup to their lips sometimes (they tend to take a big swallow, hold it til I've moved away, and spit it out).

So, any tips on how to make the drinking actually happen please?

orchidsrock · 07/06/2023 10:53

Yes, if necessary. My DS2 was/is a lot like this. He's 3 now and much better but still has the odd moment. One thing I found really helpful is giving them a choice, so you can say are you going to let me brush your teeth or do I need to hold you? Or we're leaving the park now, are you going to walk or do I need to pick you up wrestle you into the car? I had to force him a fair few times so he knew I was serious but now all I need to do is offer the choice and 9/10, he will choose the nicer option.

RudsyFarmer · 07/06/2023 10:56

Letitrow · 07/06/2023 09:51

It's quite bizarre that you cannot comprehend children are all different, even as babies. What would you creative idea be for a 1 year old who needs medicine administering every few hours for a period of 6 months and won't open their mouth, won't stay still and thrashes about beyond safely restraining them as advised by their consultant? Not giving the meds was not an option.

Describe to me what you’re doing to force the medicine in and I’ll say whether I think you’re reasonable.

RudsyFarmer · 07/06/2023 10:58

Bathintheshed · 07/06/2023 09:53

My youngest sounds like your two. You're not creative, you're lucky.

Honestly my youngest is the trickiest customer I know and I still manage to be creative.

RudsyFarmer · 07/06/2023 11:00

Hannahsbananas · 07/06/2023 09:57

Can you give examples of this “creativeness”, @RudsyFarmer ?
I’ll lay odds it really isn’t anything untried by the masses, you just have unusually compliant kids.

Oh gosh if only you knew!!! The parenting courses and advice and reading I’ve done to try and find other ways than brute force. Honestly I’ve put in the time.

Give me an example of something where you think the only answer is force abd I’ll try and think of what I’d do. I do have to go to work so it will be later on today.

Hannahsbananas · 07/06/2023 11:09

RudsyFarmer · 07/06/2023 11:00

Oh gosh if only you knew!!! The parenting courses and advice and reading I’ve done to try and find other ways than brute force. Honestly I’ve put in the time.

Give me an example of something where you think the only answer is force abd I’ll try and think of what I’d do. I do have to go to work so it will be later on today.

Why don’t we take tooth brushing?

hummingbird17 · 07/06/2023 11:17

Gosh I could've written this myself op.

My lovely sweet darling 2 year old is going through the exact same thing.

Lots of battles with teeth brushing and eating etc. some days are great and she's totally fine with all those things so I am just putting it down to a phase.
We never had anything like this with her big sister! Lots of deep breaths and definitely pick your battles

cyncope · 07/06/2023 11:19

It's great if you have children who comply easily, or respond well to creative and playful methods, and you can get everything done on time with no force.
No one is criticising that at all and honestly you are living the dream!

Most people don't have that though.
I have one child who was easy going and compliant and we still went through a phase of wrapping him in a towel like a bad tempered cat in order to brush his teeth.

However, I also had two non-compliant children, a full time job and school runs to do etc.
I did not have time on week day mornings to be playful and creative so yes,

  • getting dressed
  • nappy changes
  • brushing teeth
  • suncream on
  • getting in and out of the car seat/buggy
were all non-negotiables and I had plenty of mornings where I pinned down a child to change their nappy as we had 2 minutes before I needed to put my knee on their stomach while I strapped them in to the buggy Grin

You just can't rock up late to childminder, school or work because your 18 month old didn't want to get in the buggy today so you had to turn it into a game and then wait it out until they got bored.
The only choices on those days are you do it, or I do it.

Never marked or hurt any of my children by the way and they are all capable of reasoning and understanding why we have to do things now.

cyncope · 07/06/2023 11:21

RudsyFarmer · 07/06/2023 10:56

Describe to me what you’re doing to force the medicine in and I’ll say whether I think you’re reasonable.

Wrap them in a towel to pin their arms, hold them on your lap and syringe the medicine into the corner of their cheek.
Same method works on cats.

cyncope · 07/06/2023 11:23

MagicBullet · 07/06/2023 10:33

If I had to hold them to brush their teeth, I just did a quick sweep around less than 20 seconds probably. I wouldn't hold them there for a full 2 minutes!

See my point 1
What is the point of insisting fir 20 seconds when it should be 2 mins? Is the 20 seconds quick sweep actually making any difference to teeth health?

Yes, a 20 second brush of teeth with toothpaste makes a huge difference to teeth health compared to not brushing teeth.

roarfeckingroarr · 07/06/2023 11:27

Yes. I regularly wrestle by 2 year old. I'm careful to not hurt him of course but sometimes he needs to have clean teeth / get dressed / have his nappy changed.

BertieBotts · 07/06/2023 11:40

RudsyFarmer · 07/06/2023 11:00

Oh gosh if only you knew!!! The parenting courses and advice and reading I’ve done to try and find other ways than brute force. Honestly I’ve put in the time.

Give me an example of something where you think the only answer is force abd I’ll try and think of what I’d do. I do have to go to work so it will be later on today.

This isn't really how parenting works, though, is it?

Children (and parents) aren't robots and don't have set input:output responses.

Something might require force on one day on one incident, whereas every single other day it's perfectly fine and other ways to get the task done work fine.

A parent might have access to more patience, energy, creativity on one day, and another day they might just be done and say nope, let's go.

If I can think of some examples that have happened in my life where I've used force:

  1. Crossing road with toddler age child, holding hands. Child goes limp in the middle of the road and refuses to walk. I am holding something in other hand. I cannot scoop them up and put them on my hip. I have no choice but to pick them up by the arm and walk to the other side of the road.
  2. Baby/toddler (under 2) does not want to change clothing. Their clothing is wet, dirty, or inappropriate for the weather. Songs, games, distraction are not working on this occasion. I change their clothing as quickly as I can despite them crying and protesting. Then they are free to go off and play (or have bedtime milk or whatever they actually want to do).
  3. Child does not want to wash hair. I've already left it for as long as possible. It's now dirty, sticky and really needs to be washed before it gets matted.
  4. Child has hold of an item (e.g. a large, heavy stick from outside. A kitchen utensil. A paint roller they found in a drawer. A large, heavy book.) which can cause serious injury and is waving it around and being unsafe. Will not put it down when asked nicely.
  5. Child is hurting an animal or younger sibling and will not stop in response to verbal direction.

I could of course also solve all of those problems in other ways. I often now pick up a toddler child before crossing roads rather than expecting them to walk. Or teach them to cross safely and maybe don't make them hold hands (depending on age/likelihood of bolting). Or bring a buggy. But I didn't have any of these options on that one occasion.

I often employ distraction, songs, games, bringing a toy, getting toddler involved in getting dressed etc. But sometimes they are just too tired or ragey to cooperate. Sometimes you can wait until the rage passes. Sometimes it makes more sense to just dress them without waiting. Sometimes waiting will lead to them being more ragey, more tired etc and make the problem worse, so best all around to get it over with.

I used to wash DS1's hair with just a flannel, or just water (requiring fewer rinses than a method that needs to get all soap out). We had already cut it shorter to make washing less of an ordeal. After a while of waiting for this to get better we started a targeted program that I made up with different stages of comfort building up from having water poured over his back, to the back of his head, to the top of his head etc until we built up to full hair washing. He did well with this and we probably could have done it earlier but I kept thinking he would grow out of it, I'd never heard of a child needing to be trained/acclimatised to accept hair washing.

Sorry I got nothing for the removal of dangerous item from child's hand! Sometimes you just have to take it off them before they hurt themselves or somebody else. It's not always possible to have every possible thing kept up away in a childproof location. Children can make surprising items into a weapon if in the right (wrong) mood.

Likewise, sometimes you just need to remove them (or remove the younger child/animal) by picking them up and taking them away. And then sometimes holding onto them or putting them somewhere they can't get out of to stop them going straight back.

Nobody has perfect knowledge, foresight, patience etc. It's fine to say that you have never used force and try to avoid it wherever possible and research the perfect method etc as soon as you come across a slight issue, most people do not have this capacity, in fact I think you'd be hard pressed to find anybody who does! I think you must be overlooking times where you've suddenly been presented with a situation that needs action. Perhaps then you are an unusually effective person and have stored that incident for research in case it happens again in future, but most people wouldn't do this.

GCalltheway · 07/06/2023 11:45

I don’t physically force any of my children and never have. It’s very disempowering to a child. I would remove them from danger that’s it.
I used humour, fun, choice and distraction.
Teeth brushing was a competition or a dance. Keep a battery radio in the bathroom for ease.
Coats and appropriate outdoor wear can be taken with you. They can wear what they want! Unbrushed hair can be a hairdressing game. Medication in a fun drink. I have been parenting for 20 years and never felt the need to force!

RightWhereYouLeftMe · 07/06/2023 12:02

MagicBullet · 07/06/2023 10:33

If I had to hold them to brush their teeth, I just did a quick sweep around less than 20 seconds probably. I wouldn't hold them there for a full 2 minutes!

See my point 1
What is the point of insisting fir 20 seconds when it should be 2 mins? Is the 20 seconds quick sweep actually making any difference to teeth health?

For me the point of that would be to show "we brush our teeth twice a day", rather than have it be something that sometimes they don't have to do.

GCalltheway · 07/06/2023 12:23

Their teeth won’t fall out through a few missed brushings.

CindersAgain · 07/06/2023 12:34

Yeah the 20 second brush gets them in the habit. You can work up to longer. Also my dentist has said that getting the toothpaste in is the most important part.

CoalCraft · 07/06/2023 12:43

I will use physical force only when absolutely necessary - to brush teeth, give medicine, get dressed, get washed - and only after attempting persuasion. I also always give a warning, so "I'm going to count to three, and if you haven't brushed your teeth, I will do it. One..." This almost always works and it's very rare I actually have to physically force DD to do anything (aged 2.5).

I'd never physically force her to eat or drink (it'd be dangerous, for one thing), nor to do something not absolutely essential (like have her hair put up, put her coat on (she'll soon change her mind when she gets cold anyway), etc.). I'd insist on sun cream if we HAD to go out in the sun, but most of the time I'd just say "okay, you don't want sun cream, so we won't play outside".

RedRobyn2021 · 07/06/2023 13:02

My DD is the same age and you're right, this is normal and hard work. I can't imagine what it must be like with a baby as well.

I try my best to turn things into a game, so say I want to brush her teeth I'll say "oh my goodness, you have a germ monster in your mouth! Don't worry I'll brush him away for you" and then I'll pretend the germ monster is hopping round all areas of her mouth.

Or I will read her a book whilst I brush her teeth.

Or I will put an episode of Bing on (I avoid this though because sometimes she gets upset when it finishes and needs to be turned off).

I also use the timer on my phone, so say I want her to get out of the bath because I need to get dinner on or whatever. I will say "you need to get out of the bath now" and she will say "no no stay bath" so I will say "ok, how about you stay in the bath 2 more minutes then you get out?" And then I set the timer and I get her to press the button on my phone and I clearly say "when the timer goes off it's time to get out". Then when it goes off I do this comical startled jump and I'll say "that's the timer, do you remember what that means?" "Time to get outta bath!" And I say "yes that's right, you remembered" and I get her out.

Sometimes she STILL doesn't want to get out and will get upset, so I empathise with her "I know darling, you really like going in the bath don't you? I'm sorry you're sad but it is time to get out. We can do it again tomorrow" then I'll distract her by saying I need her help with the moisturiser or something.

Yes it's hard, I've definitely had my moments where I've forced her and tbh it makes me feel like shit so I do everything I can to avoid it. She's not always going to be happy about the choices I make for her, but I can empathise and I can try to negotiate with her.

Some people will say the above is laborious but personally I feel a lot more drained after a battle with her than if we make it into a game. And I know she certainly feels better too.

Hope that helps.

bowiesmum · 07/06/2023 13:08

I would force them but also try to avoid that by having 'morning charts' with pictures of teeth brushing, clothes on breakfast etc and if they did it nicely we ticked it off and they would get a star for being good

missingthewinchesterboys · 07/06/2023 14:04

Pick your battles.

You and the other parent need to agree on the battles too or it can make life harder.

Teeth & car seat are a non negotiable.

Give options that you can live with, they feel they have a choice but they don't really I.e
Do you want to climb in the seat yourself or shall I put you in?

Shall we hold the brush together or shall I do it. Or do you want to start brushing and I'll finish off. You could also try two brushes where they Have one and you have the other. They can brush a dolly's teeth while you do theirs.

I think most parents have fought a toddler over toothbrushing and yes you do feel awful but needs must.

With the pram we had a handle on one side and I'd let them walk but hold the handle, if they let go they went in the pushchair.

Getting dressed wasn't something I picked to fight about personally.

Toddlers are hard work but setting and keeping boundaries now will make life easier in the long run.

SleepingStandingUp · 07/06/2023 14:19

RightWhereYouLeftMe · 07/06/2023 09:29

But you must have physically forced your child to do things in the past - a 12 month old who doesn't enjoy having their teeth brushed for example? Or a 3 year old who didn't want their pre-school jabs? Just because they're being forced doesn't mean grabbed and yanked roughly around. My three year old didn't want her jabs (she was fine with the first one but then she knew what was coming so didn't want the second) so she was forced in the sense that if it had been up to her, it wouldn't have happened. But it didn't even come close to leaving a mark or hurting her, I sat her on my lap and held her firmly (like a tight cuddle) in a way that held her still.
There's an age where they are not babies (who obviously don't choose what they do), but they are not yet old enough to be reasoned with.

Even beyond that. Given a choice my 7 yo would not have had bloods taken. He 0had to have bloods taken. We were worried about his liver. It was really important. But it frikkin hurts and he's 7. I made him have it done. I held him firmly and I talked calmly into his ear and I held on so he didn't pull away and get hurt and I hugged him tight and I let him a scream and I praised him but I still forced it. Sometimes being a parent means doing what is best for them not what they want.

SleepingStandingUp · 07/06/2023 14:21

RudsyFarmer · 07/06/2023 09:38

I remember sitting my child on my lap to have jabs. I’m sure in the past I’ve grabbed the kids out of the road as one of the examples stated. I’ve probably had to hold them still to put a car seat buckle on them. But no I’ve never had to force them to submit to teeth brushing or medicine taking. I get more creative than that.

I’m honestly amazed at so many people justifying using physical force. It’s really interesting.

Yay for you that you can creatively convince your 1 yo to be have vial after vial of blood taken, or lines inserted or even just medicines and toothpaste when they have massive sensory issues.

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