Son (12) is causing trouble as part of a gang and messing with knifes

[Alyson1991]

My son turns 12 tomorrow (18th of may). His behaviour for over a month or so has been horrendous! Lying, manipulating, sneaking out when grounded, searching for his device when it’s been taken off him etc. then last week he had friends at home, thought his dad and I were both at work and his dad caught him handling a knife (big kitchen knife) in front of his friends in our house. Every consequence is ignored or broken, we’ve taken away pocket money, limited his devices, grounded him, gave him extra chores, asked the school to discuss his behaviour with him, cancelled days out and outings but nothing seems to be getting through to him. Yesterday he snuck out whilst grounded and I found out him and 4 of his friends had knocked one of their other ‘friends’ to the ground and had punched and kicked him as a gang (5 against 1!). He also lied at first and said he wasn’t there until I caught him out. I have made him apologise to the boy and his family, today I have taken away his devices and grounded him. However we have a couple of nights in a cabin booked for tomorrow for his birthday and I don’t feel he should go. I think he should get 1 present, a small cupcake or something and a half decent dinner at home but I feel that sound be it because he needs a short sharp shock and needs to take it seriously. What are everyone’s thoughts? Do I keep him at home? If so how do I handle his bday without ignoring it but also without making it too special as I think he needs a real fright. All advice appreciated, an overwhelmed and out of her depth mother x

I don't think he should get anything at all.

He's just turning 12 ffs.

I agree he should get zero holiday.

Mmmm maybe taking him away to do outdoor activities away from his peer group might help him to reconnect with reality? No devices do he can’t hide behind a screen.

I am a couple of months into grieving a teenager who was stabbed to death.

You need to cracker down now before he kills or is killed

I actually think you should take him away from the negative influences and use the time to chat about what’s going on in his life. Don’t judge, just be curious and ask questions that he will have to really think about the answers to.
Maybe don’t make a big song and dance about his birthday but the cabin is paid for and time where he has nowhere to run to and your undivided attention might be a whole lot more productive.

That's hardly a short, sharp shock, now is it, OP?

Honestly, I'd consider moving. Sounds like he's got in with the wrong crowd.

He attacked another child? Report him to school/police/social services.

Sanctions now aren’t working. So perhaps look at why not. He sneaks out, so does he have a house key? Can you remove that prevelidge? Perhaps he isn’t allowed the independence of sleeping on his own room and needs to be more closely monitored!

but I think the key is to show him what his future looks like if he carries on down this thuggish route. Basically it’s prison. Are there any local charities or groups that raise awareness and earn younger kids in this way? It might be the fright he needs

Who is he hanging around with, are there older boys?

This could escalate quickly so you need intervention, can you get police to talk to him about carrying a knife

I think devices go for the long term as do any privileges around going out, I would also look at moving him to a different school. However, I think I would do the trip, get him away and outdoors and be a family. As awful as his behaviour is you really do not need to be alienating him from you further.

So he is 11 basically

Reminds me of the Bulger killers and the other boys up north who nearly killed a child by dropping a sink on his head

The problem is that in any discussion about children who do eventually kill, there is a lack of acknowledgement of all the children who by the grace of god (or whatever) dont end up killing someone. One wrong kick, punch, the victim stumbles and smashes their head. Dead. Lots of children are like this and they are exacctly the same as the killers, they just havent done something which results in a death yet

Its potentially lethal every time.

There needs to be some significant intervention here. Moving may just move the problem, he will latch on to groups who are likeminded in any new area you move to

Has he always been like this, did he grow up around DV?

I'm not joking id not be giving him one present, taking him anywhere or making him a nice dinner. He'd be grounded and in his room with nothing and if I needed to id be stationed outside the door so he can't sneak out as much as was physically possible.

Id tell him if his behaviour improves drastically he can earn back the gifts you have bought, one at a time.

Attacking another child is disgusting. Playing with the knife was stupid but it wasn't out in the street or means he is going to stab someone but the fact he's attacking people and playing the big.i.am id be deterring it heavily with severe punishment and I'm not a strict parent, I haven't had the need to ground my kids so far at 10, 13 and 18.

I don't know what the answer is but I think it's very concerning that you think you are at the level of a cupcake and a cancelled holiday being a short sharp shock.

Have you thought of some therapy- first for you, then as a family?

I would absolutely try and get him away with you for a few days. I would also be trying to link in with a local youth worker to see if they can intervene and try to involve him in different activities and widen his social circle. The harder you crack down on him, the less likely he is going to be to open up to you. I'm not saying reward him but try to meet him just where he's at, try to just be curious about his life and the dynamics and what he thinks of it all without judgement, reaction or consequence to the conversation. If you can't do this because it's too close to home for you then I'd find a youth worker who might be able to get more out of him. I work with a lot of young people who carry and usually it starts from fear because they think everyone does it and they feel they can't show vulnerability.

In all honesty I'd actually be really tempted to move to a different area of it was a possibility for you and interrupt that friendship group completely. Can you try to fill his time up more so he's engaged with other things and people.

I'd be mindful he's probably worried about being on the receiving end from that group and may feel embarrassed about that.

Totally agree with this.

I’d be giving his presents to the victim. Or a charity shop. Certainly not to him.

Can you move out of the area? Change schools? Anything to get him away from the group.

I think I’d be hard pressed even to say happy birthday
in all honesty nothing I wouldn’t even get him a card

I have no idea of what advice to offer hopefully someone with experience will have to info or the you where you can find advice

I absolutely feel for you I’d be so frightened for the future

but what has come across your good parents and struggling

Going away from the environment could be the best thing you can do to actually try and reconnect and talk to him away from devices, mates etc. This is a slippery slope and don’t see it as a holiday it’s a make it break opportunity to really try and get to the root of it. But you need support, there are organisations that can help depending on where you are.

I am so sorry for your loss.

I would contact the school and ask for either an early help referral or see if you can self refer to the youth offending team. I think given the way this is deteriorating you need some external specialist help and hopefully school can signpost you in the right direction. (Some youth offender teams take self referrals - you’d need to check.)
Other sources of help can be a youth service, if you still have one in your area and get him involved with activities outside of these friends. Trained youth workers can be fantastic.
I would still go away as it’s an opportunity to get him away from these friends.

He needs a talk from the police about how criminal his behaviour is. Knives, beating other kids up. Disgusting.

I would move. It’s so so difficult for young people to extract themselves from gangs once involved, even in a small way. I’m a teacher and have seen it.

I really can't express how very sorry I am for your loss.

I think i'd move house if I could.