Son (12) is causing trouble as part of a gang and messing with knifes

[Alyson1991]

My son turns 12 tomorrow (18th of may). His behaviour for over a month or so has been horrendous! Lying, manipulating, sneaking out when grounded, searching for his device when it’s been taken off him etc. then last week he had friends at home, thought his dad and I were both at work and his dad caught him handling a knife (big kitchen knife) in front of his friends in our house. Every consequence is ignored or broken, we’ve taken away pocket money, limited his devices, grounded him, gave him extra chores, asked the school to discuss his behaviour with him, cancelled days out and outings but nothing seems to be getting through to him. Yesterday he snuck out whilst grounded and I found out him and 4 of his friends had knocked one of their other ‘friends’ to the ground and had punched and kicked him as a gang (5 against 1!). He also lied at first and said he wasn’t there until I caught him out. I have made him apologise to the boy and his family, today I have taken away his devices and grounded him. However we have a couple of nights in a cabin booked for tomorrow for his birthday and I don’t feel he should go. I think he should get 1 present, a small cupcake or something and a half decent dinner at home but I feel that sound be it because he needs a short sharp shock and needs to take it seriously. What are everyone’s thoughts? Do I keep him at home? If so how do I handle his bday without ignoring it but also without making it too special as I think he needs a real fright. All advice appreciated, an overwhelmed and out of her depth mother x

Straight to police station and report him for assault. Beyond vile behaviour. 11 ffs. What a world we live in

And not one fking present. He deserves shit for his behaviour

I wonder why the change in behaviour started a month ago?

I've no suggestions but the aim of the game is to turn this child's behaviour around. Sometimes punishment does the trick, sometimes parental love.

are you fucking serious! a cupcake is the last thing you need to be worried about Jesus wept !

11 ? He's 11 ?
Parent him. He is a child. He isn't free to come and go

Escort him to and from school each day, no phones/ipads. No house key.
No time outside the house unless in supervised hobbies

Get him into karate - teach him discipline and respect

Agree with those who say move area and schools if you can ASAP.
Do you have family in another part of the country you can move in with for a while? What's your job? Is it transferable?

Do not get him into karate.

They try to teach discipline and respect and it's a bit hit and miss but they certainly teach how to hit and kick people effectively.

Ok deep breath.

This is more serious than cupcakes.

I would still go away but use this as an opportunity to exit from negative influences.

He is told any celebration of his birthday is on hold until his behaviour improves. No cakes, no presents. No phone for the foreseeable future and no social life with the expectation of friends you deem appropriate allowed to visit him at home under your supervision.

You go away and try to reconnect with him. Be honest. Tell him you are worried about his behaviour. Show him the consequences of knife crime. Don't berate him for hours on end. Have a conversation then go for a walk or do some cooking together, but nothing that's a "present" in the sense that is what he would choose to do.

Make clear that he has crossed a line and the next steps are for you to involve social services and the police. Do not roll back on this - if you say it you need to be prepared to carry through (and you need to say it).

Next step is you will relocate as a family.

You need to draw a thick red line and make clear that moving forward the consequences will not be ones he can brush off such as grounding and devices.

@ArAria999
A good karate instructor will teach discipline and respect
And also teach the fact that karate should never be used to attack people

I've personally seen several young people's lives turned around by a good karate instructor

I do karate myself and so does my occasionally violent 7 year old

In my personal opinion it is not worth the risk in OP's situation

I agree with you, same with boxing . It didn't stop one of the little shits who punched my son even though the kids boxing club also teaches discipline and not to use it outside the club

THIS
Nothing else has worked with your son and things are escalating. Call the police on him and his friends, they need to know they've committed a crime, that it's serious and there are real consequences (not just being grounded by parents). Move schools, take his house keys and his phone for a VERY LONG time, so he can't be in touch with so called friends as much as you can help it...
Re his birthday, you can keep it minimal or give him nothing if you feel he deserves that. Tell him why.

100% agree. Aggressive arseholes don't belong anywhere near any martial arts.

Yes but it's not just down to the instructor, is it?
There are plenty of other hobbies OP's son can take up which also teach about respect and caring for others, but dont give them more confidence and skill on assaulting people.

He needs a big fright to shock him in to changing his ways. Speak to the police & ask to be referred to the Youth Offending team. You have tried everything & nothing is working, time for someone else to sort him out. Have you spoken to school? I would speak to his teacher, they may refer you as a family to Social Services who may be able to get you some help.

I am so, so sorry.

The worry here is that within a gang if one of them seriously assaults someone then your son could be considered part of an organised crime group and be imprisoned even if he did not actually commit the actual assault or carry the knife.

This is very true. Look up "joint enterprise". Your son doesn't even have to be present during the attack to be convicted, he just has to be associated with the attacker. https://jointenterprise.co/ campaign on this misuse of the law to prosecute absent persons. But that doesn't help your son if one of his stupid little buddies fractures someone's skull next week.

Iguessyourestuckwithme I am so sorry. Thank you for using your pain to try to help another child.

There used to be a program in the States called “Scared Straight,” where juvenile delinquents were put into programs with real-life prison criminals, and the kids all-of-a-sudden realized how not-tough they were. I believe the criminals were pre-screened and truly wanted these young people not to make the foolish mistakes they had made. I think many of them were “lifers.” The kids were safe - but the criminals were very intimidating. No touching or shoving or hitting, but a lot of yelling and shouting and getting-in-their-faces - and in the end, a lot of conversation and understanding. And yes, there were girls in the program too - they thought they were tough, until they met the female inmates. A lot of that “attitude” disappeared when they met the real thing, the real-life tough guys.

I don’t think I’d reward my son for his bad behavior - as much as it would kill me - by taking him on a short trip and buying him a gift and a cupcake.

But - this is your son and ultimately your decision to make. I wish you the very best, @Alyson1991 and I’m sure you’ll do the best by and for your son.

He needs connection but also cast iron rules. At this age, your ds is just about controllable. He will change massively in the next couple of years both in terms of size and in how much control you have over his life. Parenting teens becomes increasingly parenting by consent as they get older and depending on how you deal with this now will dictate how successful this process is.

Taking him on the trip is a good idea to break the cycle. Lots of connection with nature. Encourage him to walk bare foot to try to ground him a little. I’d take the gifts back though and use the money and perhaps use this to pay for a child psychologist, who will support you and your boy.

Do you know any police officers? Could you ask them to come and speak to him, or in fact the actual police in an informal capacity? That might give him a reality check.

As to his birthday, could you tell him that whilst you love him dearly you are postponing celebrations to a date in a month or so, or until such time as his behaviour has improved?

Also, apologies for not answering the question, are you able to speak to the parents of the other boys involved to come up with some collective action?

This and I also agree you should consider moving. My brother had a very rocky path as a teenager and it nearly destroyed my parents. He did revert back to his better self but only in his mid twenties and when he was far far away from that group of ‘friends’. I think the best path to tread for you is one of very tough love but also keep conversation open as the pp above says. What’s dangerous is cutting communication and losing touch with him. Can you get him away from those friends and into some other things where he has more structure. Good luck xx

Why does your 11 year old have so much freedom? Sneaks out the house At 11? Lock him in ffs. He only gets to go out as and when you decide and with who you decide.

This. Remove him from the negative influences and peer pressure. See if he will behave well when he is away from his 'friends'.

If it works, consider moving schools.

My neighbours had this. What they did was fill their sons day with different sport activities. Any activities. He didn’t have a second to himself. It worked. You need to keep him away from these kids. If you have possibility, move- move school. Make sure there’s no way he could sneak out. You have a shirt window to fix this before it’s too late. Do not let him walk back and to school by himself, that’s when he’s most vulnerable. Your entire life has to revolve around this. Take ALL his devises.

I am glad you made him go and apologise to the boy and the family. at least they can see he has decent parents.
But he can shove his birthday up his nose.
Take away everything from him. Keep his devices. Tough love and be firm and in control. Best of luck that he comes through the other side. I would also stop him having friendships with those other boys too.