Son (12) is causing trouble as part of a gang and messing with knifes

[Alyson1991]

My son turns 12 tomorrow (18th of may). His behaviour for over a month or so has been horrendous! Lying, manipulating, sneaking out when grounded, searching for his device when it’s been taken off him etc. then last week he had friends at home, thought his dad and I were both at work and his dad caught him handling a knife (big kitchen knife) in front of his friends in our house. Every consequence is ignored or broken, we’ve taken away pocket money, limited his devices, grounded him, gave him extra chores, asked the school to discuss his behaviour with him, cancelled days out and outings but nothing seems to be getting through to him. Yesterday he snuck out whilst grounded and I found out him and 4 of his friends had knocked one of their other ‘friends’ to the ground and had punched and kicked him as a gang (5 against 1!). He also lied at first and said he wasn’t there until I caught him out. I have made him apologise to the boy and his family, today I have taken away his devices and grounded him. However we have a couple of nights in a cabin booked for tomorrow for his birthday and I don’t feel he should go. I think he should get 1 present, a small cupcake or something and a half decent dinner at home but I feel that sound be it because he needs a short sharp shock and needs to take it seriously. What are everyone’s thoughts? Do I keep him at home? If so how do I handle his bday without ignoring it but also without making it too special as I think he needs a real fright. All advice appreciated, an overwhelmed and out of her depth mother x

Is he generally angry? How does he react when you impose sanctions? When confronted with beating up another child how did he react? Is he aggressive to any one at home?

I would be very reluctant to keep going down the route of adding more and more punishments and removing all of the good things from his life. You don't want to push him away. You want to keep him as close as possible.

Recognise his birthday as a day to change

What he's done is serious, but now is not a time for pushing him away. You need to be pulling him in so that he feels able to rely on you. His birthday trip would have been a good opportunity to try and do that. By giving him that level of punishment at this stage you are likely to end up pushing him further into the direction of bad influence and more extreme behaviour.

I'm afraid I agree with this. You've actually given your son a really strong basis to grow up into a decent adult, OP. My children are now all grown up, but in my experience, if you come at it with Draconian punishments (no cabin, no recognition of the birthday), you give the child/teenager ammunition to feel hard done by and aggrieved. They then focus on your behaviour, and how "mean" and "unfair" you are, how you "don't care about them - you won't even say happy birthday to me". All of that is untrue - but what you want is for your son to be thinking about his own behaviour, not getting angry about yours. IME, time away from the normal environment and friends and technology is a good thing. It is not a cure, but every little drip-drip of this kind of thing does help to remind them that they have a family and shared values, even if they are not sharing those values at the moment.

Whatever you do, don't shut down lines of communication. What he has done thus far is shocking and unfathomable. But he still has time to turn it around. Don't push him away just at that moment.

OP You are not a bad Mum, you are far from it. Your child has been influenced by things from outside your home but this violence is now in your home. You need to try and get through to him. What is saying about beating another child and about brandishing a knife ? Please don't let him get into a situation like the one with the child in Ayr last week, tazered for threatening Police with a knife.

Sorry op maybe my judgement is clouded, but saying sorry to the boy he assaulted doesn't seem to cut it, sorry won't make the victims bruises disappear. His parents should have gone to the police, if my sons bullies were older I'd bloody well have done so, before he got to the point of trying to kill himself.

I agree, sorry is ok for when small kids hurt one another and you teach them that we don’t hurt others and we must apologise for our actions. Apologising doesn’t work for 12 year olds the same way as it would a toddler/young child. The police should have been notified as a result of the assault.

You should have called the police, that's a short sharp shock.
Cancelling the trip would seem counter productive to me, as a PP said you've given him ammunition and a reason to dislike you, he will push back against your rules even harder, because he will view you as unreasonable and uncaring.

This.

I’m not a bad mum even though it doesn’t seem like it

I don't think you are a bad mum at all. It is very hard to bring children up and know the right response to every situation that arises.

But you still haven't said what changed a month ago?

I hope you warned the parents before you turned up on their doorstep , one of the boys who beat up my sons parents wanted to bring him round to apologise, it was the last thing my ds wanted.

Another one wrote him a letter to say sorry , which was a much better thing to do imo.

That poor boy being beaten up by people he thought were his friends. Can you imagine what he's feeling?

Someone took my ds back into school and the pastoral team brought him home. Huge lumps all over his head, black eye , bruses on his back and cheeks . All because he'd told one of the boys to stop climbing on the table tennis table ds and his friends were using on their dinner break.

He only knew 2 of the kids , one of them he was quite friendly with. He couldn't understand why kids he didn't know and one he got on all right with would do that to him. He's just turned 12.

I then had to watch the video they'd taken if themselves , he's lucky he's so much taller than them. I can't imagine how much worse it would have been if theyd got him on the floor .

You need to get to the bottom of all this tell him how upset you both are about this behaviour and hope you can get through to him.

As it is he can't be trusted to be out on his own for the time being.

I don’t know what changed. Same school, same house, same parents. No change is activities inside or outside of school. The school have said he’s really well behaved and he’s a prefect. No new adults in his life or new places. When he told me who he hit this child with I didn’t recognise any of the ‘friends’ he named, that’s different as he’s been hanging with the same crowd for years!

It does sound like he has got in with the wrong group. I could not believe the things ds2 told me his 'friends' did when he was in year 8. Neither ds1 or ds3 have been involved in a group with such behaviour (although they have both been tricky in their own way!)

We got the book 'how to talk so teens listen and listen so teens will talk'. It is so important to have that relationship and as a pp has said to 'own' their behaviour not just to be angry at you for all the punishments.

With ds3 the more punishments, groundings, removal of phones etc we did the worse his behaviour became. Actually spending time with him and rewarding small positive steps made a huge impact.

Preteen/ Teenagers can be incredibly tricky and you often don't have the support network as you do when they are little (baby and toddler groups, meeting on the school run, play dates, etc)

I am meeting with other mums of tricky teens at the moment as part of the charity and all of them are trying their absolute best and struggling.

OP you said you read every single message and yet your actions are the complete opposite of what the vast majority of replies suggested doing.

In fairness many replies are attacking ,harsh and not constructive
Op isn’t compelled to act on instructions of other posters

I have a 15 year old Ds. I might sound strict but age 11/12...he never just went out hanging round with other kids without me knowing exactly where he was. He'd come home straight after school and I would not have tolerated anything else, unless pre arranged. He plays football for a local team and I dropped him to and from training and matches and still do. If he did go out, I knew who he was with and where and would drop him and pick him up.

I explained my situation and asked for advice. I read every message and weighed up the options and choices I had available. I then made a decision for my son. I am very grateful to everyone who took the time to give advice and share their thoughts. However at the end of the day he is my son and I made my decision, mistakes and all he is my son. @Daisypain

Going forward I wish you well and hope you get a safe & lasting resolution
do speak to local authority SW and school safeguarding lead
keep a wee eye on his mental health, report any deterioration to Gp for a potential referral

Oh @Alyson1991

NOBODY thinks you’re a bad mum. Kids your son’s age act up. It’s his age and the influence of his friends and I’m guessing what he’s seeing online.
Maybe you need to watch what he’s watching on YouTube, etc. a little closer.

But don’t ever think you’re bad. You love your boy. You’re doing the very best you can. Shit happens. Someday I’m going to needlepoint that onto a pillow.

Hang in there.

He has had an ideal childhood but “Somehow he is still becoming out of control and violent”. He’s not an innocent being sucked into this situation.
You need considerable professional support now OP before it escalates.

OP I think that what @daisypain meant - or, at least, this is what struck me - is that most posters recommended that you did not punish or cancel the birthday, but instead gave other advice - I would recommend you go back and re-read the posters who incorporate "do not punish" "do not cancel his birthday" and have a good look as their advice will be in line with up to date best practice advice. Beating a child up isn't normal 12 year old behaviour and you have had some good advice here about what to do next - not cancel birthdays, punish or issue consequences as punishment - and many posters have explained why.

OP, sadly, sometimes we have to accept that genetics are playing a role. It's not all nurture, or peer influence. Wishing you all the best with him.

With ds3 the more punishments, groundings, removal of phones etc we did the worse his behaviour became. Actually spending time with him and rewarding small positive steps made a huge impact.

I had one of those.

So very sorry to read this 🤗❤

I detest all this wishy washy parenting advice... Ooh, don't take him away/cancel his birthday/punish him more! I'm sorry, but he is a little psychopath in the making, however much his teachers say he's well behaved! Giving him exactly what he's expecting, ie his birthday/cabin etc to me is basically rewarding him for his bad behaviour! He needs to learn that actions have consequences. Beating other children up and showing off with knives is not normal for an 11 year old. Get the police involved, keep in touch with the school and ground him indefinitely. Once he realises you're not up for giving in, without some massive improvements in his behaviour, he'll soon learn! I don't care if it sounds harsh, I don't care if I get railed for it, that's my opinion and we're all entitled to them! He's found some violent little thugs to hang around with and is showing off to impress them and be accepted, simple as that. It appears he thinks it's clever. How long before they have him roped into to getting involved in much much worse? His punishment needs to continue until he realises you're not a walk over who gives in after a few days... It worked for me when I was younger and it did me no harm at all. You're not a shit mum at all OP, good luck to you love, stick to your guns 💐