Son (12) is causing trouble as part of a gang and messing with knifes

[Alyson1991]

My son turns 12 tomorrow (18th of may). His behaviour for over a month or so has been horrendous! Lying, manipulating, sneaking out when grounded, searching for his device when it’s been taken off him etc. then last week he had friends at home, thought his dad and I were both at work and his dad caught him handling a knife (big kitchen knife) in front of his friends in our house. Every consequence is ignored or broken, we’ve taken away pocket money, limited his devices, grounded him, gave him extra chores, asked the school to discuss his behaviour with him, cancelled days out and outings but nothing seems to be getting through to him. Yesterday he snuck out whilst grounded and I found out him and 4 of his friends had knocked one of their other ‘friends’ to the ground and had punched and kicked him as a gang (5 against 1!). He also lied at first and said he wasn’t there until I caught him out. I have made him apologise to the boy and his family, today I have taken away his devices and grounded him. However we have a couple of nights in a cabin booked for tomorrow for his birthday and I don’t feel he should go. I think he should get 1 present, a small cupcake or something and a half decent dinner at home but I feel that sound be it because he needs a short sharp shock and needs to take it seriously. What are everyone’s thoughts? Do I keep him at home? If so how do I handle his bday without ignoring it but also without making it too special as I think he needs a real fright. All advice appreciated, an overwhelmed and out of her depth mother x

I did this for different reasons when my dd was much younger than this. It helped her broaden her horizons and not be fixated on one child, who was being really unkind.

The issue these days with changing schools is that they all know one another from social media. It would help, however, more extreme intervention is required and getting a child busy is a very good way of dealing with it.

He battered a friend with 5 other boys? I’d be matching him down to the police station and letting them out the fear of god in him. That’s absolutely horrific, taking away phones and grounding him isn’t nearly enough in this situation - he definitely shouldn’t be having any birthday at all.

Contact CIRV for advice https://www.cirv-nsd.org.uk/

You need him away from the 'friends' and into a new influence. That might mean moving or changing schools

I would contact police and ask for a visit - they do community visits and would certainly talk about consequences - he can be prosecuted for something as 'small' as saying something or being a menace in community. This stays on his record and has consequences for future.

You need at act now.

I think his birthday should be the last of your worries frankly.

You got a lot of good advice on this thread. Act now.

Police. Scare the shit out of him and then move him. No birthday.

You need to rain down hard or his life is as good as gone. Do not underestimate how dangerous and insidious gang culture is.

He’s only 11/12. Jesus. Act now, act hard before he’s walking around with a zombie knife in his waistband and stabbing a kid for initiation and working as a little drugs minion for some senior member.

This.

I would move.

Take him away on the holiday and try to bond and connect with him.

Punishing him is not going to help in this situation - you've tried already and it's failed. His friends have a stronger influence. You need to connect and find out what's going on and how he's feeling. He might well be scared of these other kids.

Do some research about gangs and how you can support your son with this. This could be a good starting point:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/345337/AdviceParentsCarersGangs14.pdf

However scared he is of the police, the 'fear of god' is probably coming from these other boys. You will not get through to him like this.

I agree.

This
Gang culture is really complex, he is looking for somewhere to feel he belongs and may be scared that if he is not the one doing the beating up he will be on the receiving end.
You need support to change this, whether through school or a youth worker. You also need to be trying to build up your relationship with him, otherwise it will be push him further into the gang as they ‘get him’

Seek early help from your council and agree with PPs who said consider moving. I would.

@DreamTheMoors Unfortunately the scared straight program didn't work - "Overall, the evidence suggests that the intervention has increased crime.

After accounting for bias, Review one estimated that reoffending was 68% higher among those juveniles who participated in the programme compared to those who did not. Participant reoffending was higher compared to offenders who did not receive the intervention in seven of the nine studies." From the College of police research pages, can't get the link to copy but easy to search for it if interested.

The other thing that's probably hard to hear OP - because financially right now it's a hard circle to square - is you need to be more present. No long hours at home alone after school when you're at work.
If it means changing jobs or negotiating wfh so be it. There's only a handful of years in which being present still has that influence but you've seen the consequences of not...

Punishment will drive him more to these behaviours.
you need to find strategies to get him to talk and get to the root cause of this. So a PO suggested walking, going away on that holiday, movies, make him feel loved not like the black sheep. He cannot be happy to do this, something has happened. Build his trust to find out, don’t diminish what’s left by petty punishment. This is too big.

I think he could also do with a shock. So having a word with your local police officer to see could he come in and basically tel him he heard about some of his behaviours. See can they empathise but also reinforce they’re watching him and share examples of what ca n happen if he was to continue on this road.

Dont turn him against you, turn him to face you.

Move. Move him from the school in the short term and move to a different area entirely.

Could you send him to the cabin with his dad and let them have some time together where he talks to him about life choices and how he’s loved and needs to turn his life around while he can. Let him really understand the trajectory of his life if he continues. Sometimes they need love when the punishment isn’t working. Read around an elf fulfilling phrophecy (where you tell them they’re bad and they become bad). Sounds awful for everyone.

• self fulfilling prophecy

I don't know your situation geographically, but in all honesty I would move. This isn't going to get better, I don't think, before it gets a lot worse, but he is still young enough to try.
My DH and I drew up a list of non-negotiables before we had children, and this was one of them. Bad crowd = move house, move school. It came close with DD2, and I realised what a logistical struggle it would be to actually move school, involving councils and whatnot - turns out you can't just turn up at the new school gates! She knew I was calling the council, emailing the "new school" etc, and she changed her behaviour and stopped trying to be in with the toxic crowd - thank Goodness, because that would have been a headache.
But we would have gone through with it.
I suppose my question would be, when he is 18, if this behaviour continues and he ends up deeply entrenched, how would you feel if you hadn't moved away?

I'm usually of the "give him nothing" school of thought but think maybe you need to go away, spend some time together and try to work out wtf hes playing at. Were police called about the assault of the other boy?
If you know the parents I'd certainly be encouraging it. Devices removed indefinitely. And make changes so he can't sneak out

Long term, moveschools/house..

I was never violent but always gravitated to the wrong crowd. I witnessed a lot of violence and had a friend who was murdered by another’friend’. I left the area to go to college at 17 and I wasn’t aloud to go home it was basically my last chance before I was kicked out. I wouldn’t have come out the other side if I’d of stayed I am sure of that. Ironically it was my mum who helped me sort out placement at college and supported me through the whole thing. fast forward 15 years to getting therapy due to severe anxiety it was my relationship or lack of with my mum that drove me to find that connection elsewhere. Find the cause of the behaviour, I’d start with local charities for help.

@Alyson1991 you need to act, fast. In your position I would contact the Police and ask to speak to their Youth Team. An intervention is needed and that starts will getting him on their radar. Our local police run a lot of projects working with young people, engaging with them and trying to get them off the path of criminality.

Talk to the Safeguarding Lead at his school and tell them everything, hold nothing back. They too may be able to refer him for programmes that take place outside of school.

Take back control, speak to your employer and see if you can reduce your hours so that you’re at home when he leaves to go to school so you can take him, and be at home when he finishes school so you can collect him.

Is moving house an option? Are gangs prolific in your area? Speak to the local sports clubs, particularly boxing clubs, they often have ex gang members supporting them and some hard facts about where he will end up are needed.

Remove all money sources, set very clear boundaries, reward him for his efforts and put in place sanctions for when he doesn’t adhere to the rules. Ensure you and DH are 100% consistent and present a united front. Show your son love and affection every day, do your best to engage with him, show an interest and get down to his level. Keep your own behaviours in check, take time to respond to his bad decisions in order to try and be calm and measured. Never let him doubt why you are trying to help him - you love him and want him to live an amazing life of freedom.

I don’t want to worry you, but I know of a family whose son has just returned to them having been taken into care and he was relocated outside of the area to remove him
from the gang he was part of. He got involved in county lines and was making obscene amounts of money running drugs. He was gone for four years for almost identical reasons. He’s a very damaged boy and remains very, very vulnerable but there is hope.

Personally, the only thing he'd be getting if he was my son was a trip to the local police station! Disgusting behaviour.

Op I think you might need to move away from that area once they get into the wrong crowd it's hard to get them out of it, I personally would go away with him and use the time to spend quality time together.

If you do move away get you son involved in activities every day be it boxing, martial arts ect to keep him off the streets. And perhaps get him some counselling.

have a look at Keyforlife
not sure of your area but that’s the sort of thing I would recommend.
I took punishment after punishment it made no difference. My mum emptied my bedroom and told me to live in the garage I just got on with it! (I was aloud to sleep in my bed but that’s all that was in my room)