Why are gender roles viewed negatively?

[reddragon7]

I read and see so many threads and real life examples, where men and women feel the need to be “equal.” The man about to become a father, refuses to become the main earner, even when he has the means, and insists that his wife also work and contribute financially. Doesn’t this seem imbalanced to anyone, and that society is being brainwashed to accept this as the norm.

I have nothing against a woman wishing to work post-children, however, I don’t understand why society and some men put pressure on their wives to work, if she would rather stay home with the children. This has now become and expectation. If a woman is contributing financially, it is never really 50/50, as she is also doing most of the domestic work.

People condemn gender roles as though they are ancient, but seem to forget that, biologically and psychologically, women are naturally better caregivers to children. They are the ones pregnant, produce all these hormones, and better equipped to raise a child than a man. Of course, there are exceptions, but as a general fact, people seem to ignore this.

In view of all this, I believe more men should offer to be financial providers, giving women the option to not work after children, as childcare costs aren’t exactly saving them much anyway. Otherwise, it feels we are moving away from our gender roles, which may actually be more helpful in a marriage, than people make out.

It’s my opinion, that the above such marital rights would be good, thats all. Yes, I said I didn’t mean to use the term right when it came to sex.

That's a massive extrapolation on your part, nothing to do either science, just you trying to justify your prejudice.

Not every woman breastfeeds though. I formula fed from birth so my husband and I have always shared feeds.

You still haven't explained how these rights would be enforced.

House prices only went up when women started working and independently buying property. I'm afraid the "horse has bolted" women are never going back.

A more progressive attitude would to see longer paid state funding for maternity leave.

Isn’t it true that women carry the baby, not the man, and that women breastfeed. That’s the science and biology I was referring to. To me that’s enough evidence to indicate women as primary caregivers, in my opinion.

I'm adopted.

How does that fit with your gender roles, as my mum has never been pregnant or breastfed. Is she less of a primary caregiver than women who have?

So a legal right once married that women don't have to work?

Do you realise what a massive step back that would be for women who want to work and progress in their careers?

Employers would be wary of hiring any married women in the fear that they would just leave because they have the legal right not to work.

Women would be overlooked even more so when it comes to promotions.

It would be awful.

It’s my opinion, that the above such marital rights would be good, thats all.
Why?

Seriously, why?

Why on earth should people like you who cling to stereotypes (and who already have the freedom to choose a spouse with similar views and preferences) get to remove the rights of millions of other people?

You believe men should have no say on the structure of their family and that this should be enshrined in rights.

But then it wasn't rights.

But maybe it was

But then science says so

And it's better for the children

But it's just an opinion

But it's up to the couple

Oh actually in my opinion it should be a right.

🙄

The only reason you'd want your proposals as legal rights is if you're concerned that a spouse/future spouse might not be onboard with your preferences. Having it as a right would conveniently give you a nice little opt out at any point.

A more progressive attitude would be to offer paternity leave that is longer than 2 weeks.

@reddragon7 are you able to take on board the below and see what a huge issue it is with your proposed ideal world? How detrimental it would be to women on a wider scale? How even women who don't want to get married or have kids would be adversely affected due to employers thinking they might get married and have kids at some point? How it would mean men would be promoted to higher paid roles more regularly than women?

Do you realise what a massive step back that would be for women who want to work and progress in their careers?

Employers would be wary of hiring any married women in the fear that they would just leave because they have the legal right not to work.

Women would be overlooked even more so when it comes to promotions.

If we are striving towards equality, I think men should have the same amount of paternity leave as women have for maternity leave.

I feel that considering men get 2 weeks but women can have up to 6 months shows that even society may consider women to be the primary caregivers.

Exactly.

It starts at birth, of course a woman is going to be the primary caregiver if the man barely has any time away from work.

You can share up to 50 weeks of leave and up to 37 of pay between the parents.

https://www.gov.uk/shared-parental-leave-and-pay

In Sweden, the situation is far better — both parents (assuming two) share 480 days of paid leave. A single parent gets the full 480.

Absolutely not, because she is still a woman at the end of they day. As I said, I still hold the opinion of gender roles, regardless of whether the child is adopted or not

That’s absolutely fine. That was just an example as women have the capability to, even if they don’t carry it out - still a woman end of the day, regardless of breastfeed or not

This biology argument is actually insane.. and dont get me started on the rest of it 😅

So women are better caregivers because of pregnancy and breastfeeding...yet when faced with the adoption question, women are still better caregivers??

How about me because I was pregnant but couldn't breast feed - am I biologically compromised on the caregiving?? 😅

OP your question was why are gender roles viewed negatively and you've had SO MANY coherent answers so hopefully you understand a bit more now why many of us really want to leave gender roles in the past

Working is never a bad thing - I hold the view that women be primary caregivers. Doesn’t mean they have to give up work forever. More so, I favoured the idea of women being financially provided for. That way they don’t have financial burdens as well as childcare/domestics, when being the primary caregivers. Tying into my preference for gender roles as children arrive. Of course, I understand this won’t be liked by everybody.

Given e are back to science I wondered whether you had had chance to review the study I mentioned about children from same sex relationships being happier. Not in terms of same sex relationships, but because it was pinpointed that children were happier in an environment where parenting and housework are shared more equally

bmcpublichealth.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1471-2458-14-635

You just don't seem to grasp, or even care about the fact that it would encourage discrimination in the work place. Especially for someone who claims they aren't against women working.

It would be a barrier for working women when working women already have enough barriers and discrimination in the work place.

What's to like?

I think society still has a long way to go in terms of valuing the fathers role in addition to the mothers. You only have to look at the family court system for example and that appears to be geared up for the child living with the mum unless she is an absolute danger to the child. No consideration is given to the possibility that the father could actually be the better parent and be able to provide a better environment for the child (my own experience).

Additionally I am grateful that women are out there in the workforce and have made their own careers. It's not for everyone but I'm appreciative of those who have done it. For example, my daughter has a learning disability and is more comfortable dealing with female staff. If women were constantly at home, there would be no women for her to be comfortable around.

Saying that, for my own family, I have always been the SAHM as I felt that worked better for us.

Of course, I understand this won’t be liked by everybody.

It's obvious that your position won't be liked by everyone, which is why your idea that your preferences should be enshrined in a set of rights that removes rights from millions of people is, to be brutally honest, disgusting.

I’m going to go against the grain and say considering how much some people on mumsnet go on and on about how biological women are different to transwomen and how biologically they are less aggressive and more likely to be caring and supportive of others, then surely a lot of those women also believe women are then naturally better caregivers? Since it is all biological? And therefore agree with the op after all.

hides

Many women don't want to be financially provided for myself included and prefer the independence of working.
I also view my relationship as a partnership and it is equal we both do housework, both look after the children and my DH does breakfast every morning with both DS's.

I work full time through choice my DH works PT (4 days) through choice. My boys will be brought up with the expectation that they do housework, cook and Dad is as much involved as Mum. I see my children in the morning, pick them up from nursery 2 days a week (DH does the other 2), we eat dinner together every evening, play and we both do bath and bedtime.

If women choose to be the primary care giver then fine but men are perfectly capable of sharing fairly this responsibility.
To me it's only a good thing that we have moved away from the 1950s housewife expectations!

Then why do we see more single mums compared to single dads??

Why's the child usually left in the main care of the mother .. I use the term usually

Thoughts ..