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Why are gender roles viewed negatively?

866 replies

reddragon7 · 04/04/2023 20:32

I read and see so many threads and real life examples, where men and women feel the need to be “equal.” The man about to become a father, refuses to become the main earner, even when he has the means, and insists that his wife also work and contribute financially. Doesn’t this seem imbalanced to anyone, and that society is being brainwashed to accept this as the norm.

I have nothing against a woman wishing to work post-children, however, I don’t understand why society and some men put pressure on their wives to work, if she would rather stay home with the children. This has now become and expectation. If a woman is contributing financially, it is never really 50/50, as she is also doing most of the domestic work.

People condemn gender roles as though they are ancient, but seem to forget that, biologically and psychologically, women are naturally better caregivers to children. They are the ones pregnant, produce all these hormones, and better equipped to raise a child than a man. Of course, there are exceptions, but as a general fact, people seem to ignore this.

In view of all this, I believe more men should offer to be financial providers, giving women the option to not work after children, as childcare costs aren’t exactly saving them much anyway. Otherwise, it feels we are moving away from our gender roles, which may actually be more helpful in a marriage, than people make out.

OP posts:
Are your children’s vaccines up to date?
reddragon7 · 07/04/2023 16:21

momtoboys · 07/04/2023 16:20

Oh, dear. This will be a big thread.

Bit too late for that 😂😂

OP posts:
SittingNextToIt · 07/04/2023 16:39

Mycathatesmecuddling · 07/04/2023 15:37

Given you are her sole voice of support at this point Im sure she doesn't mind

SOCKS

Bepis · 07/04/2023 16:42

@SittingNextToIt Why do you think we are the same person? That would be a really sad and embarrassing thing to do.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about these subjects:

LolaSmiles · 07/04/2023 16:53

Oh, dear. This will be a big thread
It was always going to be.
I can't think why. 😂

cannaecookrisotto · 07/04/2023 16:53

This thread has given me indigestion. Rage inducing bollocks.

SittingNextToIt · 07/04/2023 17:12

Bepis · 07/04/2023 16:42

@SittingNextToIt Why do you think we are the same person? That would be a really sad and embarrassing thing to do.

Really?

  1. both accounts have incredibly similar posting styles
  2. very short posting histories
  3. one account has almost exclusively ONLY posted on this thread and another zombie thread with the exact same shite.
Bepis · 07/04/2023 17:17

@SittingNextToIt I've been a member of Mumsnet for years. Been posting regularly for a few months which you should have noticed if you looked up my history on here.

I would find anyone doing that as having way too much time on their hands.

Is it just because we have similar viewpoints on some issues? There are plenty of people that hold similar views, but they just don't express them.

reddragon7 · 07/04/2023 17:32

SittingNextToIt · 07/04/2023 17:12

Really?

  1. both accounts have incredibly similar posting styles
  2. very short posting histories
  3. one account has almost exclusively ONLY posted on this thread and another zombie thread with the exact same shite.

Some peoples views may actually align - surprise, surprise! I know you probably wanted everyone to attack me, but reading back on all my original posts, I just expressed myself - maybe a few misunderstandings on the way, but nothing out of order. I’m still firm on my views that I prefer traditional roles. Get over it. I’m sure many people may feel the same, but not express them. if you disagree, that’s fine - no need to bash another user @Bepis because you can’t stand someone else has supported me. I am new to mumsnet anyways.

OP posts:
bossonext · 07/04/2023 18:14

reddragon7 · 07/04/2023 17:32

Some peoples views may actually align - surprise, surprise! I know you probably wanted everyone to attack me, but reading back on all my original posts, I just expressed myself - maybe a few misunderstandings on the way, but nothing out of order. I’m still firm on my views that I prefer traditional roles. Get over it. I’m sure many people may feel the same, but not express them. if you disagree, that’s fine - no need to bash another user @Bepis because you can’t stand someone else has supported me. I am new to mumsnet anyways.

Given that you posted a thread about how women belong at home doing domestic work on Mumsnet and then acted all surprised Pikachu face when some people were a bit unhappy with that idea I can well believe you're new to MN.

Lastnamedidntstick · 07/04/2023 18:46

Bepis · 07/04/2023 15:37

Not at all. In my experience, women on the whole seem to be the more maternal and nurturing kind of parent but that is not always the case. Sometimes fathers are the better parent and can meet the child's needs more appropriately. It is wholly dependent on the person, not their sex or gender.

Actually, @reddragon7 , @Bepis doesn’t agree with your theory that women are biologically the better parent.

I am now completely confused as to why you both seem to think you share the same view and why @Bepis has come out in support of you when she believes sex/gender is irrelevant to good parenting.

reddragon7 · 07/04/2023 19:04

Lastnamedidntstick · 07/04/2023 18:46

Actually, @reddragon7 , @Bepis doesn’t agree with your theory that women are biologically the better parent.

I am now completely confused as to why you both seem to think you share the same view and why @Bepis has come out in support of you when she believes sex/gender is irrelevant to good parenting.

I guess even though I have linked my reasoning to the biology, how women carry the baby, breastfeed etc. Even though @Bepis may not completely agree to that part, our views overlap in that, from both family experiences, we have found that traditionally, gender roles have worked for us.

OP posts:
Feemie · 07/04/2023 19:11

Lastnamedidntstick · 07/04/2023 12:58

Your initial point was that women are biologically wired for nurture and childcare, men are not.

which justifies your opinion that marriages should follow gender roles: men provide, women nurture.

so why people are asking you about homosexuality: if you believe gender roles are driven by biology, do both men in a gay couple go to work? Who nurtures the child? If both females in a gay relationship want to stay home as per their innate biological drive, who finances?

the question being that if gay couples’ roles within a relationship aren’t driven by innate biology, then what is it about heterosexual couples that means their biology is different?

if a gay woman manages to work and support her family financially, how does that fit into your theory that biologically women are driven to sah, and should therefore have the “right” to do so?

again you can’t back up your own opinions with any sort of sense.

OP, do respond to @Lastnamedidntstick’s valiant efforts to unpick your lack of thinking.

I’m also intrigued to know what on earth you work as.

Lastnamedidntstick · 07/04/2023 19:12

reddragon7 · 07/04/2023 19:04

I guess even though I have linked my reasoning to the biology, how women carry the baby, breastfeed etc. Even though @Bepis may not completely agree to that part, our views overlap in that, from both family experiences, we have found that traditionally, gender roles have worked for us.

Saying that gender roles work for you is an entirely different discussion to your o/p.

had you posted that, this thread would not have gone the way it did.

Feemie · 07/04/2023 19:21

Lastnamedidntstick · 07/04/2023 19:12

Saying that gender roles work for you is an entirely different discussion to your o/p.

had you posted that, this thread would not have gone the way it did.

And frankly, who gives a hoot that ‘traditional gender roles’ worked for one, not-terribly-bright poster on the internet? Who apparently can’t tell the difference between her own individual preference to be economically inactive, and a generalised prescription that it’s ‘best’ for children. Apart from gay peoples children, who don’t need to be considered because she ‘doesn’t support’ homosexuality.

Bepis · 07/04/2023 19:23

@Feemie I don't think we need to resort to telling people they are essentially 'thick'. The discussion has been had quite successfully without personal attacks.

Feemie · 07/04/2023 19:26

Bepis · 07/04/2023 19:23

@Feemie I don't think we need to resort to telling people they are essentially 'thick'. The discussion has been had quite successfully without personal attacks.

People have given the OP numerous opportunities to explain her threadbare semblance of ‘logic’. She has repeatedly come out with the same farrago of stereotypes, anecdata and ill-concealed surprise that the world isn’t like her arid little cul-de-sac. I’ll leave the conclusion up to you.

bossonext · 07/04/2023 19:27

reddragon7 · 07/04/2023 19:04

I guess even though I have linked my reasoning to the biology, how women carry the baby, breastfeed etc. Even though @Bepis may not completely agree to that part, our views overlap in that, from both family experiences, we have found that traditionally, gender roles have worked for us.

Oh look, you're back to pretending your views have any basis in science.

Bepis · 07/04/2023 19:29

@Feemie She just has a different viewpoint. That has nothing to do with intelligence. It's based upon life experience, childhood etc.

reddragon7 · 07/04/2023 19:29

bossonext · 07/04/2023 19:27

Oh look, you're back to pretending your views have any basis in science.

Isn’t it true that women carry the baby, not the man, and that women breastfeed. That’s the science and biology I was referring to. To me that’s enough evidence to indicate women as primary caregivers, in my opinion.

OP posts:
LolaSmiles · 07/04/2023 19:30

Even though @Bepis may not completely agree to that part, our views overlap in that, from both family experiences, we have found that traditionally, gender roles have worked for us.
Nobody has an issue that some families work well using traditional gender roles.

As has been said countless times by countless posters, couple who wish to structure their families following traditional gender roles already can, and do.

The whole first however many pages of your thread OP was you arguing that women should have the right to stay at home, the right be financially supported by her husband and the right stop working if she wants to, followed by a lot of gender stereotypes to try to justify why a woman should get to dictate this.

It's only as the thread progressed and people challenged you did the backtracking begin, along with claims that you'd no idea that claiming 50% of the population are naturally and biologically programmed to do domestic work might not go down too well.

snowbellsxox · 07/04/2023 19:32

Grin happy you noticed my spelling error.
I also noticed it straight away and corrected it below my text before it was even pointed out lol SmileWink
And don't, nobody said you should. It's my opinion.

reddragon7 · 07/04/2023 19:35

Well these are my personal opinions:

”The whole first however many pages of your thread OP was you arguing that women should have the right to stay at home, the right be financially supported by her husband and the right stop working if she wants to.“

OP posts:
Feemie · 07/04/2023 19:39

Bepis · 07/04/2023 19:29

@Feemie She just has a different viewpoint. That has nothing to do with intelligence. It's based upon life experience, childhood etc.

And yet I grew up in a deeply traditional society, with very few working mothers, where the marriage bar was still in place for female public servants and the constitution contained a reference to women’s ‘role in the home’, and this did not prevent me from concluding that 50% of the population being assumed to be destined by ‘nature’ to be unpaid domestic carers is a recipe for large-scale inequality and an appallingly skewed society.

That the OP has not managed to independently examine the gendered assumptions with which she was brought up should make us pity her blinkeredness.

TearsforBeers · 07/04/2023 19:40

Isn’t it true that women carry the baby, not the man, and that women breastfeed. That’s the science and biology I was referring to. To me that’s enough evidence to indicate women as primary caregivers, in my opinion.

But that's such a small amount of time .... beyond breastfeeding there's no reason a man can't be a primary/equal carer.
And for those who don't breastfeed then this can start much sooner.

SouthLondonMum22 · 07/04/2023 19:40

reddragon7 · 07/04/2023 19:35

Well these are my personal opinions:

”The whole first however many pages of your thread OP was you arguing that women should have the right to stay at home, the right be financially supported by her husband and the right stop working if she wants to.“

Didn't you say that you didn't mean to use ''rights''?

I'm getting dizzy.