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Why are gender roles viewed negatively?

866 replies

reddragon7 · 04/04/2023 20:32

I read and see so many threads and real life examples, where men and women feel the need to be “equal.” The man about to become a father, refuses to become the main earner, even when he has the means, and insists that his wife also work and contribute financially. Doesn’t this seem imbalanced to anyone, and that society is being brainwashed to accept this as the norm.

I have nothing against a woman wishing to work post-children, however, I don’t understand why society and some men put pressure on their wives to work, if she would rather stay home with the children. This has now become and expectation. If a woman is contributing financially, it is never really 50/50, as she is also doing most of the domestic work.

People condemn gender roles as though they are ancient, but seem to forget that, biologically and psychologically, women are naturally better caregivers to children. They are the ones pregnant, produce all these hormones, and better equipped to raise a child than a man. Of course, there are exceptions, but as a general fact, people seem to ignore this.

In view of all this, I believe more men should offer to be financial providers, giving women the option to not work after children, as childcare costs aren’t exactly saving them much anyway. Otherwise, it feels we are moving away from our gender roles, which may actually be more helpful in a marriage, than people make out.

OP posts:
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Bepis · 07/04/2023 15:28

TearsforBeers · 07/04/2023 15:27

Person A is respecting other views whereas Person B cannot respect someone's religion and why they may hold those beliefs.

Sorry, there are some views that just don't deserve respect. It doesn't matter what their origin is, outdated views need to be challenged.

Fair enough but I disagree with you wholeheartedly.

monsteramunch · 07/04/2023 15:29

@Bepis

Sorry, there are some views that just don't deserve respect.

You 'wholeheartedly disagree' with this sentence?

Mycathatesmecuddling · 07/04/2023 15:29

Mycathatesmecuddling · 07/04/2023 15:16

*But you just told us not to question someones beliefs

So we are both supposed to not question someones beliefs and better understand them?*

Any chance of an answer to this? Im genuinely curious as to how to reconcile these two?

Yes that is aimed at you

You have told us not to question someone elses beliefs whilst telling us to better understand their beliefs

You also told us not to criticise beliefs whilst spending a lot of time criticising us

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about these subjects:

MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 07/04/2023 15:30

Bepis · 07/04/2023 15:17

I don't feel that anyone should be saying those comments and same-sex marriage in public, or on a public forum as it is a sensitive subject with many having their own strong feelings on the subject.

My standpoint is that all people and all views should be respected. If we do not agree with something, is it really beneficial to say anything? Can someone just walk away from a conversation in order to keep the peace? Sometimes it is just not worth speaking out.

I don't believe in criticising other people's views. Questionning is fine as that is how we all learn but respect is definitely a two way street.

My standpoint is that all people and all views should be respected. If we do not agree with something, is it really beneficial to say anything? Can someone just walk away from a conversation in order to keep the peace? Sometimes it is just not worth speaking out.

This is where we differ. I think it is damaging not to say anything in certain circumstances because it normalises the kind of prejudices that the OP is expressing. You think it isn't worth speaking out. I think we have a duty to speak out against certain types of view. I think it is irresponsible not to challenge in such circumstances.

Bepis · 07/04/2023 15:30

monsteramunch · 07/04/2023 15:29

@Bepis

Sorry, there are some views that just don't deserve respect.

You 'wholeheartedly disagree' with this sentence?

Yes as the poster was implying that religious beliefs that going against the mainstream are not worthy of respect. I disagree with that stance completely. That feeds hatred and promotes conflict.

Mycathatesmecuddling · 07/04/2023 15:30

Mycathatesmecuddling · 07/04/2023 15:29

Yes that is aimed at you

You have told us not to question someone elses beliefs whilst telling us to better understand their beliefs

You also told us not to criticise beliefs whilst spending a lot of time criticising us

Tagging is not working, yes @Bepis this is aimed at you as you asked

Bepis · 07/04/2023 15:33

Too many posts to respond to, sorry 😬. I also feel like I am hijacking OPs thread.

LolaSmiles · 07/04/2023 15:33

My standpoint is that all people and all views should be respected.
Respecting people and respecting views are very different.

I respect people's right to hold views.
I respect their right to express those views within the law
I don't believe any belief has to be respected, especially when they are poorly considered, illogical views from someone thinks having their beliefs challenged is unreasonable criticism.

If we do not agree with something, is it really beneficial to say anything?
Depends what's being said.
If someone on a public forum openly says that married men should be entitled to sex from their wives because it's their right, then it's likely people will say something.
If someone shares an opinion on a local council policy decision that I'm not that interested in when we're at the pub I'd probably not say something.

  • Can someone just walk away from a conversation in order to keep the peace? Why should anyone walk away from challenging homophobia and sexist stereotypes to keep the peace? Sometimes it is just not worth speaking out. How depressing.

I don't believe in criticising other people's views. Questionning is fine as that is how we all learn but respect is definitely a two way street.

Then we fundamentally disagree because I don't believe any belief is beyond criticism.

Lastnamedidntstick · 07/04/2023 15:34

So @Bepis

do you agree with the o/p that raising children is wired innately into women, and their biology means only they can raise children well?

Because of that biology, they should not have to work if they don’t want to?

and that men biologically cannot nurture children, so their role should be financial support only?

Mycathatesmecuddling · 07/04/2023 15:36

Bepis · 07/04/2023 15:30

Yes as the poster was implying that religious beliefs that going against the mainstream are not worthy of respect. I disagree with that stance completely. That feeds hatred and promotes conflict.

So if someone suggested that due to their religious beliefs they wanted to change womens rights (and its is rights we are discussing on this thread) so that if they want to hold down a job they need to cover their hair. They can choose not to cover their hair but they will not get financial income if they do - you are happy with that? You wouldnt challenge or critisise it?

The OP wasnt coming from a religious belief but she was suggesting making 'rights' that were homophobic in nature. But we should just allow that to happen because we are being all respectful and not critical?

LolaSmiles · 07/04/2023 15:37

So many formatting fails in that reply.

In a nutshell

There's a difference between:

  • respecting a person and their right to hold personal beliefs
  • respecting beliefs and not criticising beliefs

One thing I tend to find is that the people who confuse the two tend to either have poorly considered views themselves (so haven't developed a coherent reason for their beliefs), or they're prone to sharing opinions that many people in modern British society are likely to challenge, or both.

Mycathatesmecuddling · 07/04/2023 15:37

Bepis · 07/04/2023 15:33

Too many posts to respond to, sorry 😬. I also feel like I am hijacking OPs thread.

Given you are her sole voice of support at this point Im sure she doesn't mind

Bepis · 07/04/2023 15:37

Lastnamedidntstick · 07/04/2023 15:34

So @Bepis

do you agree with the o/p that raising children is wired innately into women, and their biology means only they can raise children well?

Because of that biology, they should not have to work if they don’t want to?

and that men biologically cannot nurture children, so their role should be financial support only?

Not at all. In my experience, women on the whole seem to be the more maternal and nurturing kind of parent but that is not always the case. Sometimes fathers are the better parent and can meet the child's needs more appropriately. It is wholly dependent on the person, not their sex or gender.

Mycathatesmecuddling · 07/04/2023 15:42

Bepis · 07/04/2023 15:37

Not at all. In my experience, women on the whole seem to be the more maternal and nurturing kind of parent but that is not always the case. Sometimes fathers are the better parent and can meet the child's needs more appropriately. It is wholly dependent on the person, not their sex or gender.

You have changed your mind from earlier in the thread then?

*Bepis · 05/04/2023 04:50

I agree with you OP. For my own family, I have always believed in the more traditional roles of the man going out to work to provide for his family and the woman being at home with the children*

TearsforBeers · 07/04/2023 15:42

Fair enough but I disagree with you wholeheartedly.

Why?

I'm not saying someone can't hold those views but those views don't need to be respected.

Bepis · 07/04/2023 15:43

@Mycathatesmecuddling Yes for my own family. That doesn't mean it applies to other families as there are different people, personalities and abilities in other families.

Bepis · 07/04/2023 15:44

TearsforBeers · 07/04/2023 15:42

Fair enough but I disagree with you wholeheartedly.

Why?

I'm not saying someone can't hold those views but those views don't need to be respected.

Are you saying someone's religion should not be respected?

SouthLondonMum22 · 07/04/2023 15:45

Bepis · 07/04/2023 15:17

I don't feel that anyone should be saying those comments and same-sex marriage in public, or on a public forum as it is a sensitive subject with many having their own strong feelings on the subject.

My standpoint is that all people and all views should be respected. If we do not agree with something, is it really beneficial to say anything? Can someone just walk away from a conversation in order to keep the peace? Sometimes it is just not worth speaking out.

I don't believe in criticising other people's views. Questionning is fine as that is how we all learn but respect is definitely a two way street.

Of course it's beneficial. Society would never improve or have the changes that are important to our history if people had just shrugged and walked away.

Not challenging harmful views normalises those views and I will not play any part in normalising sexism or homophobia.

TearsforBeers · 07/04/2023 15:45

Yes as the poster was implying that religious beliefs that going against the mainstream are not worthy of respect. I disagree with that stance completely. That feeds hatred and promotes conflict.

I respect someone's right to hold specific religious beliefs BUT I don't need to respect those views myself. I will not respect sexist, misogynistic or homophobic views.

Misogyny and homophobia promote hatred and conflict and do not deserve respect.

ShodanLives · 07/04/2023 15:45

Bepis · 07/04/2023 14:44

I cannot answer that question for you as it is your personal decision.

For me personally, I would respect anyone's views on any subject, in the sense that they are entitled to hold those views and it would not really be my business to question those beliefs unless I was invited to do so.

Sorry to go all Godwin but if someone believed that all Jews should be exterminated or gay people imprisoned or black people segregated you would respect that?

TearsforBeers · 07/04/2023 15:47

Are you saying someone's religion should not be respected?

I respect people's rights to follow any religion they like but I don't need to respect that religion if it promotes hateful beliefs or views.

LolaSmiles · 07/04/2023 15:48

Bepis
Why should any belief system (religious, philosophical, ethical, moral, political, other ideological) be respected in and of itself?

Bepis · 07/04/2023 15:48

@ShodanLives You make a very good point with that example. In that extreme circumstance, I wouldn't respect their views but I also wouldn't start an argument with them to their face as I would likely be their target too.

Mycathatesmecuddling · 07/04/2023 15:51

Bepis · 07/04/2023 15:48

@ShodanLives You make a very good point with that example. In that extreme circumstance, I wouldn't respect their views but I also wouldn't start an argument with them to their face as I would likely be their target too.

First they came for the Communists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Communist
Then they came for the Socialists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Socialist
Then they came for the trade unionists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a trade unionist
Then they came for the Jews
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Jew
Then they came for me
And there was no one left
To speak out for me

Mycathatesmecuddling · 07/04/2023 15:53

Bepis · 07/04/2023 15:43

@Mycathatesmecuddling Yes for my own family. That doesn't mean it applies to other families as there are different people, personalities and abilities in other families.

And if someone had told you that they believed that men were the better caregivers and that your husband should have the right to demand that you go out to work and finacially support him whilst he stayed at home, would you have just quietly gone along with that even though it didnt work for your families set up

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