Why are gender roles viewed negatively?

[reddragon7]

I read and see so many threads and real life examples, where men and women feel the need to be “equal.” The man about to become a father, refuses to become the main earner, even when he has the means, and insists that his wife also work and contribute financially. Doesn’t this seem imbalanced to anyone, and that society is being brainwashed to accept this as the norm.

I have nothing against a woman wishing to work post-children, however, I don’t understand why society and some men put pressure on their wives to work, if she would rather stay home with the children. This has now become and expectation. If a woman is contributing financially, it is never really 50/50, as she is also doing most of the domestic work.

People condemn gender roles as though they are ancient, but seem to forget that, biologically and psychologically, women are naturally better caregivers to children. They are the ones pregnant, produce all these hormones, and better equipped to raise a child than a man. Of course, there are exceptions, but as a general fact, people seem to ignore this.

In view of all this, I believe more men should offer to be financial providers, giving women the option to not work after children, as childcare costs aren’t exactly saving them much anyway. Otherwise, it feels we are moving away from our gender roles, which may actually be more helpful in a marriage, than people make out.

That may not work for everyone @LolaSmiles . Frankly, I know a lot of men who have no desire to take an equal share of domestic duties. And lots of women don’t really want a career.

So… women aren’t allowed to be career driven, be independently financially secure, and have high aspirations for themselves? Their only purpose in life is to birth babies and then stay at home to raise them? We live in the 21st century. Women and men can both work and both parent.

I think the reason gender roles are viewed negatively is because traditionally they were somewhat coerced or the result of biological necessity and may still be now for some people.

Taking those that NEED to work out of the equation (granted, lots of women), the fact that the majority of stay at home parents are mothers and that more mothers than fathers work part time suggests that for those women that can afford not to work and don't want to the choice is there and is being made. I don't know of anyone being pressured into going out to work when they don't financially need to - I'm sure there are families like this but I wouldn't say it is the norm at all.

That may not work for everyone @LolaSmiles. Frankly, I know a lot of men who have no desire to take an equal share of domestic duties. And lots of women don’t really want a career
It doesn't have to work for everyone.

For those who really want to have a breadwinner/SAHP arrangement, they can.

What is totally laughable is that the OP seems to think that the solution to women carrying the domestic load when working is for women to stop working and keep a nice home for their hubby!

No expectations that men could step up at home. No suggestions of flexible working all round. No, just that women should be back keeping house because they're simply so much better at domestic chores and childcare.

What decade are you from OP? What a load of tosh.

OK, I'll bite. I'm a SAHP. SO DH goes out to work whilst I stay home and mop the floors. For us it was about DS being poorly, one of us needing to be home, me wanting to be it.

However, if he hadn't been, I'd have gone back to work. I earned more than him. We can't survive on his wages without benefit top ups so me not working just because I have a womb and can't be away from my children when it leaves us unable to afford to live without help is silly

Gender roles are restrictive

If a woman is contributing financially, it is never really 50/50, as she is also doing most of the domestic work.

Isn’t domestic work one of main the issues around gender roles? Both partners should contribute.

Contributing to a household financially doesn’t necessarily mean 50/50. Women are statistically paid less than men, or work on lower paid roles. There is a gender pay gap. Equal pay is a gender issue.

There should be more options for families to decide how maternity/ paternity leave is divided and includes fathers. This is a gender issue.

Family friendly working hours should be available to more men as well as women. It should be more acceptable in the workplace for dads to take leave/ finish early if their child is sick etc. Gender roles again here.

Thank you but I don't want a man to provide for me

I am quite capable of doing it myself

I don't see why anyone should be forced into any role for any arbitrary reason including sex , their class , the colour of thier skin

If others want that fine, but don't force your way of living on others

I assume you are a woman who has yet to experience financial vulnerability by such "gender norm" ideals. IE - your financially providing husband has fucked off with Sandra from Accounts and left you and the kids with no money, no home, no childcare support? You've never found yourself suddenly with a minimum 10 year employment gap and no one will hire you for any job within school hours? Not for anything above minimum wage, anyway.

What if the dh was brought up by a working mother and disagrees about the value of the woman staying at home with the children, doesn’t think it necessary? Why should he be required to financially support another adult? Both my dh and I were brought up by working mothers, neither would want to be sole earner. We share the housework instead.

Lots of men might want to be the main family careers if they weren't so discouraged by gender norms from doing so

Lots of women do want a career and more might if they weren't programmed to be the carer

I am not trying to force anybody. I am genuinely curious as to why it’s becoming an expectation for women to work after maternity leave, even if they don’t want to. Just feels like a lack of choice.

I'm talking about the first 0-4 / 5 years not a whole decade.
The most important brain shaping years of our lives.
These years and what we are taught / experience are literally the foundation for the rest of our lives and shape so much of who we become. I want to be apart of that impact on my children.

Not Sally with a level 2 college diploma aged 18.

Not at all actually. I am working woman myself in a professional career who also believes in general roles. This situation doesn’t even apply to me. I just wanted to raise a discussion and open to opinions, as I am genuinely curious.

Gender roles*

I study child phycology, it's not all about doing it to be stable and secure without a man .. it's a strange view I don't expect my husband to walk out on me any day now we can't live thinking like that ..

1 in 2 marriages break down. I don’t expect my husband to walk out on me either, but the reality is men do. Women have affairs, people fall out of love, lots of reasons. Not to acknowledge that is blind. Same as insurance- the chances of being broken into or your house going up in flames are probably less than your marriage failing, but we all have insurance just in case.

what about redundancy, illness or loss of earnings of the dh?

my dad dropped dead one day so I saw first hand how relying on one person’s income leaves you in the shit if that income disappears.

two people working builds in a fail safe.

I find this amusing.

My husband is the stay at home dad as my job is very demanding and frankly, he is better at it than me. What does that do to gender roles from your perspective OP?

Do you homeschool your primary school aged children or do their schools raise them?

Why should it be women and not men that expect to spend the child's early years at home ?

What about if the man wants to raise the child full time too?

I understand this perspective. Hence, I feel women who have children and are SAHM should still have a back up plan. Such as wfh part-time, or qualifications that can then help them in future if that were to women. I would always advocate for education in both genders. But this doesn’t mean rejecting gender roles in marriage.

Deny it as much as you want, but women are naturally better caregivers. Men can be too but more often than not, women can deal with this better. Of course, men should support them. But most of the times, the child craves the mothers in early years.

I agree that it is beneficial for the child to have primary care givers, but this doesn’t actually have to be the mother.

Have you looked beyond the first few attachment theorists yet? Some of the assumptions made by Bowlby and his peers in the 1950’s were very of their time - culturally it was believed a woman’s place was in the home. Mother was to blame if their were family problems. Role of father never mentioned in the early days of attachment theory, because it was never looked at.

Children need responsive care givers and consistency. More recent studies have shown children can actually develop multiple attachments. In addition to both parents, extended family/ childminders can provide this.

I agree that it’s ultimately out of necessity that families choose to use nurseries.

High quality centers that treat staff well cane meet the basic needs of children, but I think best when the adult to child ratio is lower than the current regulations here.

I also think there should be longer paternity and maternity leave here, with more options of how to share it. Many European countries provide this until a child is 3.

I don’t think anyone’s life choices should be dictated or restricted due to gender. What works best in a marriage/family is both partners being able to contribute in a way that makes the most of their strengths, with mutual respect, support and compromise in the day to day.