Teacher lying or son lying

[Gudinne]

Just looking for some advice. My son is four. On Friday after school he told me that his ear was sore because he had accidentally popped a small stone down it at school that morning. I asked if he had told a teacher, he said yes and told me which teacher he had told. It wasn't his normal class teacher who he said was not in school on Friday. I asked him what the teacher had said when he told her, he can't remember what she said but she didn't look in his ear. I couldn't see anything in his ear but took him to A&E where they removed a small stone from his ear. He is fine, no damage done.

I emailed school about this and asked in future if any staff become aware of anything that means my child needs medical attention they let me know immediately.

School has responded to say the teacher said my son never told her he had a stone in his ear. I believe my son and can't think of any reason why he would lie.

What if any further action should I take? His dad and my sis reckon do nothing as the teacher will just maintain her position so it's her word against that of my son. They reckon that there are probably teachers just like her in every school.

I’m guessing he didn’t tell anyone, the fact he can’t remember what was said says it all to me.

i would focus on reminding him not to stick things where they don’t belong!

He probably didn't tell anyone, but he knows that you expected him to, so he said what you wanted to hear. Any teacher would have checked his ear.

My 4 year old sometimes communicates through gesture, I’m sure he would think he has told someone something but in fact unless you are very in tune with him there is no way you would know what he means.

It's not a question of who is lying. It's a question of perception, and both can be right in their interpretation of events. The child might have said he put a stone in his ear, but did the teacher actually hear him?? Did he say his ear was sore, or did he specifically say that he'd put a stone in it? etc etc.

There's no need to get into an antagonistic situation with the school over something minor like this, nor to decide that teachers spend their time lying over minor issues in every school.

I would believe the child in this, because he was able to give you the right details, such as the name of the teacher he told about the stone and the details of the incident.

In this situation I would believe the teacher over your DS. He can’t remember what she did or said after he told her, and she really doesn’t have a reason to lie - it would have taken her no trouble to send him to the office to get it checked out.

Her not having any kind of memorable response is unlikely. Unless he believes he told her because he spoke to her at the same time she was busy listening to someone else, or he didn’t fully communicate his issue. 4 year olds are prime for that sort of thing. And so he feels like he told her but she equally she wouldn’t have known.

Why would the teacher look in his ear? She's not a medic - and the medics who did presumably used some sort of device to be able to see it and then remove it.

Good grief, my grandson in Reception can’t remember who he read to, what he had for dinner, who he played with or even if he went to the toilet at school!!!
Your DS hasn’t lied, he’s given you an answer because he most likely knew you expected one. Ask yourself - do you really believe a member of staff at school would lie about something like this? If you do, then you’re probably best moving schools as you clearly have no faith in their abilities.

But he couldn’t give the details, that’s the point - he couldn’t remember what happened after he told her… possibly because he didn’t.

It would also be very concerning if he didn’t remember the names of any of the staff at school! Him knowing the teachers’ names doesn’t mean he told any of them.

In this situation I would believe the teacher over your DS. He can’t remember what she did or said after he told her, and she really doesn’t have a reason to lie - it would have taken her no trouble to send him to the office to get it checked out.

Of course the teacher has a reason to lie. They didn't check what happened because they most likely they did not believe the child and want to weasel out now.

Why would the child lie?

It's not a question of who lied.... it's a question of perception, and both can be right in their perception of what happened.

Children at that age often misreport and they are also very suggestible. You can’t really apply the moral censure to it you might with an adult.

When you asked if he told a teacher his answer could mean, of course I did! (that’s clearly what’s expected).

If you ask most children leading questions at that age, they’ll give an affirmative response: Did Father Christmas come to your house? - Yes! - Did he bring you presents? - Yes! - Did you hear the sleigh bells? - Yes! When there’s no way they heard sleigh bells.

I’d certainly give the teacher the benefit of the doubt and not mention it further to your son.

I wouldn't assume anyone is lying. Most likely he thought he had told her but it wasn't clear enough for her to understand, eg he said "it's there" and she didn't know what he was talking about.

I'd guess your ds thinks he told the teacher but either wasn't clear or she was distracted and do didn't hear.

I know my own dc at 4 wasn't what's great at telling me when there was a problem and I knew her well enough to read between the lines. She once shoved a bead up her nose and it took about half an hour to work out what she meant by 'my nose feels weird', a teacher that didn't know her wouldn't stand a chance. So I wouldn't immediately be throwing a fit about lying.

By all means speak to the school and tell them what happened and they can do whatever review/risk assessment they deem necessary. Maybe reinforce to your ds that he shouldn't be sticking things in his ear.

Why would the child lie? Because their parent is expecting a specific answer or because in their perception they did (to the best of their 4year old ability) tell the teacher.

A teacher has no reason to lie about this. A 4 year old is far more likely to have either forgot/not told her/thought he had but said something unclear. If you imagine that teacher will have been told 4000 other things that hour, any teacher at my school if they had been told that would obviously send them to the office to contact parents straight away. Assuming the teacher is lying and trying to take it further when you have absolutely no evidence whatsoever to suggest she is lying is really unfair on her

Have you NEVER met a child? They’re notoriously good at not telling the correct version of events, especially the younger they are. I’ve lost count of the number of times a parent has come into school all guns blazing, with some story their child has told them, only for the evidence to show that their child got it wrong. Classic examples:
“Miss shouted at me today but I didn’t do anything” = teacher raised her voice to shout ‘stop’ at the child who was about to cut their partner’s hair.
”Miss wouldn't listen to me when I wanted to answer a question” = teacher asked the child to stop shouting out when she was asking another child what 9 x 9 was.
”Sir called me stupid in Maths” = Teacher told child to stop being silly because they were drawing all over their hand with a whiteboard pen.

It's not a question of who lied.... it's a question of perception, and both can be right in their perception of what happened.

Exactly. He may have thought he told her. He may have told her, but she didn’t hear him/didn’t take in what he said - and he didn’t realise that she hadn’t.

My DH and I had a similar situation. He swears he told me that his old work computer was going to be wiped; what he actually told me was that he was taking it in and he would lose the old email. So I didn’t realise I should back up the couple of files I wanted on there. I say he didn’t tell me, he says he did. Neither of us is lying - it’s a different interpretation of the same conversation. Sounds like this may have happened here.

His 4 years old i doubt he lied if he remembered what teacher it was, the teacher etheir didn't hear him or it just blew over head and didn't believe ur son as he seemed well in himself, i would email the manager and report this, the most they will do is inform the teacher and that will be it

You speaking to school will have already flagged up a potential failure in their procedures/communication. The teacher will have been spoken to so will already know whether they made a mistake or not and will know to be more vigilant. I would have a serious conversation with your some about making sure he tells an adult when something goes wrong like this. (also about not putting small objects in his ears!!)
You will never actually know exactly what happened. As others have said it’s likely to be a combination of factors that have meant this has been missed.

Further action? Your son put a stone in his ear and for whatever reason a teacher did not realize he needed medical attention. What further action are you thinking of? What do you want to happen? Do you want to cause trouble for the teacher? Do you want her to worry about it? I would tell my son not to put things in his ear and I would leave other people alone.

Scenario 1: child can't remember what happened so they go along with what you suggested thinking 'well I often tell the teacher' or 'mummy says I should tell the teacher.
Scenario 2: child said something unclear like 'my stone fell in'. Teacher murmurs something vaguely sympathetic. Or even didn't hear.

Both of these scenarios are totally plausible for my 4yo. We constantly build a picture of what we think happened at school and then see Tapestry photos and it was quite different!

Honestly you just need to let this drop.

Instead of plotting up ‘further action’ for something that you don’t actually know happened and very very easily could not have done, spend that time teaching your DS what to do if he’s not heard by an adult when he needs help. Eg Of the first adult doesn’t respond; try another. Say clearly “I need help”. Etc

"They reckon that there are probably teachers just like her in every school."

What do they mean, "just like her?"

I absolutely would not position this as lying by either party. It’s much more likely that your child was misunderstood by the teacher - who let’s face it will have 29 other 4 year olds to manage. The way you as a parent obtained the information from him about the incident also is a factor to consider. How adults speak to children to ask them questions has a big bearing on the types of answer they get. If you asked “Did you tell the teacher”? It’s easy to say yes but if you say “tell me what happened” you are much more likely to get the truth of what happened. I used to teach police officers how to interview children… it’d tough. I’d let it go… unless the teacher is Miss Trunchball I imagine it was an honest mistake.