Mother of child won’t let me have my daughter overnight. Is she being unreasonable?

[Throwaway388]

Me and ex have a 15 month old baby together.

Me and ex split before we even knew she was pregnant. When I found out, and knew she would not get an abortion. I stayed with her during the pregnancy but we did not get back together. I supported her in all ways for the sake of the baby atleast.

I always loved my child and a bond was instant from when baby was born so don’t have the issue (or blessing in some cases) of not caring about/wanting baby.

Baby’s mum is the reason we argue as she is very spiteful that im not with her and set on making my life hard and asserting dominance and control anywhere she can. I have been doing everything on her terms for the last 15 months.

I have been going to her house just to be around my child and staying there overnight. We naively agreed that I would stick around until she feels baby is ‘old enough’ to coparent. We argue very frequently and this often ends up in her becoming violent (breaking my things, hitting me sometimes and I’ve had to defend myself before through restraining) and kicking me out the house in front of child.

Lately I have noticed my child hates it when we argue and starts moaning, so last week I decided it was the last straw after the usual argue/get kicked out/can’t see baby for over a week cycle.

I want my life back and want to be able to move on with my child properly without having to be around her.

She has agreed to let me have my baby 2 days a week during the day and drop baby off before dinner time. I want baby to stay overnight with me but mum is insistent it’s too early and that one day she will be ready to do it, but currently she is not comfortable with letting baby stay anywhere (implying I am on the same level as her sisters)

She has no problem leaving baby with me from morning til night where I do the bedtime routine etc while mum is out for friends bdays/parties/clubbing but has a problem with me doing this at my own house.

She doesn’t understand that I’m the child’s dad and have rights?

So I have spoke to mediators who put me in touch with a lawyer for ‘advice’. The lawyer called me this morning and tried to scare me into buying an hour consultation with them saying the only solution is to go straight for a court order as baby’s mum will never be cooperative, will only get worse etc etc I’ve had anxiety all morning from the call.

It’s like I’m used to this situation which others see as absolutely crazy but when I realize it’s not normal and it’s really bad it gives me anxiety. This is stressing me out a lot.

I pay towards baby’s mums rent every month and half gas and electric (which I’m not happy about but whatever) and half of baby’s needs e.g nappys milk wipes. I also on my own will buy baby toys and clothes more than what baby needs but just because I want to sondon’t mind that.

Currently my options are:

1. Run away, abandon baby and try to get over it (not going to do that)
2. Wait until baby’s mum is more cooperative and give it more time until she’s ‘comfortable’ with letting baby do overnights/try to talk her into it (been trying for ages it’s not working)
3. Initiate mediation which will go in my favor but scared to ‘take it there’ with baby’s mum as she could become even worse.
4. Go to court. Also scared to do this as mum could just make up lies and once a court order is in place it’s stuck. I have a friend who’s child’s mum lied in court and now he can’t see his kids at all after spending thousands.

I’m leaning towards option 2 but I’m really reaching the brink. I’m under stress constantly and it affects my daily life. I just don’t want any more drama and want to have some peace and be with my child regularly so they could have me and their mum and live a decent life with split parents.

What should I do? Am I being unreasonable? Is she being unreasonable?

You seem very fixated on your rights, parents being equal, etc. The legalities, in other words, and no insight at all into the conflict or the stage of development your child is at. The only explanation for the arguments and the way they turn out is that the woman is basically evil, unhinged, and vicious.

You are locked in conflict with the baby's mother which leads to physical altercations while at the same saying you are concerned about the relationship with the baby being damaged.

What's damaging the baby is you being unable to stop arguing with the mother when you visit.

If this woman is as unhinged as you are describing - hitting you, throwing things, etc - then call social services. It's very unlikely that she reserves this insanity just for you and is patient and kind with the baby and everyone else in her life.

Or maybe it's time to sit down and think about your role in the conflict. You have a choice about arguing and causing your child to feel distress.

If you want to establish a visitation schedule, then you need to get your name on the birth cert, you need to hire a solicitor, and you need to do mediation or go to court. If the mother lies you will be well able to prove she's lying. If, otoh, there's an element of truth in what this woman says to prevent you having the child for court ordered visitation, then maybe you need to ask yourself what exactly you are doing here and for whose benefit. As I said, there's a strange element of entitlement coming through your OP.

And as for the comments in regards to how baby is fed - that is irrelevant

My partner has only ever woken to our baby's cries once. I'm up ready to get to baby before I even know I'm awake 🤣 something else he comments on, my instincts and how I instantly react to my baby's needs/wants.

She could be feeling all kinds of anxieties towards leaving baby for the night, it might not be aimed at you she may just genuinely have separation anxiety and it's very very normal.
The more you push her to be away from baby, the more she will pull baby closer. It's natural, they have a strong bond.

Just read all the OP's posts and it's all "me me me".

It isn't about being "equal parents" when the child is this young. It's about what's right for the child and that's being with its primary care giver overnight until both are comfortable otherwise. I doubt you're "equal" anyway - do you truly pay for half the costs of clothing, feeding, housing and nurturing a baby?

You need to back off and give it time.

It's only been a week of you taking your daughter out of the house to your place instead of staying over. Can't you give it another week then revisit the conversation? You daughter has barely had a chance to process this change.

Look, you keep referring to MN being biased and like you've come into a lion's den, but you're drip feeding pretty relevant information. You haven't mentioned until this comment that you've actually slept in the same bed as your child until the mother comes home at 3am! That's a totally different situation to what it sounded like initially.

Be fair. No one's out to get you. You know we don't know all the ins and outs of your life, only what you tell us. If you already care for your child overnight (because that's what you're describing, sleeping alongside her til the early hours while mum's out), then that's obviously very different to wanting to acquire "new" rights to overnights. Give us the whole picture before calling us biased!

It's too young for me. My 3 year old has to stay with his dad 50% of the time due to our work schedules and even though we do not live together we're very effective communicators and co-parents.

Even so, the lack of structure and routine has negatively impacted his develop. Even things like potty training, because our houses are different layouts we both have to take different approaches even though we have frequent discussions about how to tackle the inconsistencies.

His sleep pattern is allover the place.

There are rarely days we can just spend at home relaxing and having days where the pressure is off is also important to young, healthy growing bodies and minds otherwise being in a high stress environment becomes "normal" and is psychologically damaging.

Children really need consistency. It should be the adults bending around youngsters at this age, rather than expecting the young ones to be ferried left right and centre.

Why is the sleeping at yours element of this important to you? Why can't you have a loving and nourishing relationship with your child in their safe and familiar environment?

I agree with you OP. To me it sounds like she is weaponising the baby.

I think I would go to court. I would stop the overnight stays at your ex’s - it sounds like things get toxic when you’re together. Try to stay calm around the baby even if ex tries to push your buttons.

I think it sounds like a difficult situation and I sympathise - presuming what you are telling us is the truth.
Wrongly or rightly - I’m pretty sure your ex would have another story.
But I do agree that a 2 yr old should be staying with her df overnight if he is a normal, loving father.

This. Establish this as a routine first and then maybe look at overnights when they're 2+?
As for money, if you feel you are paying too much then see what the CMS rate is and pay more in line with that. Bear in mind that's the minimum you're expected to pay though, so if you can afford to pay more then personally I think you should for your child.
Any violence in front of your child has to stop so I think you're right to stop seeing your baby in the exs house.

Usually I would tell you how "your rights" will go down in family court. I don't feel so inclined in this case.

Depends on the child - no way would mine have been ok with being left at that age, even now at 2 she would struggle. But she breastfeed, cosleep an and was very mummy obsessed at that age.
I would personally do 2-3 days and then work up to nights when baby is comfortable, depends on personality though.

They will probably say build up to some overnights at your house. And it will take months to get a court date. So be a bit smart for all your sake and agree for the time being and aim for overnights in a few months.

You clearly can't work together on this so yeah go to court see what they give you. I don't know why you're so insistent on overnight but get the maintenance sorted through CMS while you're at it

Thought this was a parenting forum and that there would be people here who have had similar experiences.

Your child is too young. This is what happens when you don’t commit to the mother of your child.

OP keeps adding more stuff because people aren't agreeing. Why didn't you state it all in the original message? Each time OP replies he makes the mother sound worse and worse.
The baby is still young. Just be satisfied you still get to see her some dad's don't even get that opportunity. My dd would not be doing sleepovers at that age. As she gets older try the conversation again about her sleeping over.

That's what you're getting... seriously be pragmatic. If you're a tag

There are and lots of people are giving you advice based on that. You're just getting cross instead of taking that on board

You’re a father who wants to take a BABY from her mother. No. Just no.

Oh and you have to stop the fighting and arguing. That’s so damaging even that young.
If you aren’t happy then go to count and get something formal in place - also get a formal payment in place for maintenance.

Completely agree with @crayola34

And given the mother's abusive and violent behaviour, the dad seems more likely to be able to act as a secure attachment figure. Abuse to the other parent is abuse to the child.

The child needs her safe and stable father around her now, while she is at the vulnerable age of learning attachment and emotional regulation.

I’d go with 2. Have your dd with you two days a week, make it light, cheerful, positive. I think she’ll gradually come round to the idea of overnights when she sees how beneficial it is.
Head off any arguments before they start,n you can’t let a tiny child be exposed to that.
See how it goes for say 6 months then you can reassess. If you’ve looked after your dd two days a week with no cause for any complaints then if you do end up in mediation or court you’ve got back up evidence.

You say your ex is bitter, but the way you talk about her is awful. Her heart is not broken when she's clubbing? Newsflash, mums are allowed a night to enjoy themselves. That is very different from a situation where the baby is away from her mum for days at a time, every week. It's not about you or about your ex, it's about what's best for your baby. Being away from her mum for half the week or even a few days is unlikely to be what's best for her at this age.

Also genuinely what on earth are you on about:

There’s a million things that only a mother can do but only a dad can give that level of protection to his children.

I think you'll find that my feeble little vagina'd body is perfectly capable of offering my children protection, thanks!

I think take what you can for now. It might not be ideal but given the mothers volatility I would be looking at establishing a pattern

When baby is 2 years old then you can try mediation and court route to formalise Co parenting.

It might not seem reasonable but you have to play the long game.

If you have established a pattern and the mother has no problem with dropping off for 2 days per week and you babysitting when she has a night out then it will show her as a liar if she starts making stuff up about you because if what she made up was true why would she then leave the child with you.

I would keep a lid on the arguments and again make it set times that you stay

I would even look at when the arguments start and if they are usually at a set time then make sure you have left before then.

I know you want to see your child on an equal footing to their mother and you don’t think it is fair but life isn’t fair and with someone who can turn the tap on and off in regards to you seeing your child then you have to abide by her rules for the time being and get what you are given and then with time will come a history of you being perfectly fine with child on your own and then when you want to formalise things more you become bulletproof to any lies she might tell

I would try the mediation route and then go to court. I suspect you will end up there anyway but it's in your gift to offer more financially and ask less in terms of "rightful access" in mediation than your ex partner deserves. If she has any sort of decent representation they should recommend she bite your arm off given the financial support you are offering.
Your child doesn't deserve to be treated like a chess piece by her mother and I see no reason why she should not stay at your home overnight provided it's of a suitable standard and represents no risk to her.

It is a risk that you could end up worse off so worth documenting and having a calendar record of where you have had sole charge over the past year or so; any record of access visits denied and why [texts, emails etc] and financial support. Do your homework and prepare well as though you were going to court.

I'd try to be more considerate of her and the child's needs etc, in all honesty I think if you start with all the legal stuff now, it's only going to add stress - and I don't think that would be fair on any of you.

Has she suffered with her mental health at all? I had post natal depression & OCD, and I had this horrible soul destroying anxiety about leaving my first with anybody. I wouldn't even leave him downstairs with my partner when I wanted a bath in the first few weeks, my partner was fully supportive and would carry the Moses basket into the bathroom for me, and would pop in to bring me a brew and make sure I was ok etc. it was a tough time & that baby was the only thing I could think about. I adored him, so much that it overwhelmed me.
Regardless of this, it is very very very hard for mothers to leave their babies, I know it's hard for dads too!

But I really think if you put aside the 'equal' stuff, and your wants, and try to be a support better for her as well as baby - it will really work in your favour. Show her you're understanding and give her the time she needs.