Mother of child won’t let me have my daughter overnight. Is she being unreasonable?

[Throwaway388]

Me and ex have a 15 month old baby together.

Me and ex split before we even knew she was pregnant. When I found out, and knew she would not get an abortion. I stayed with her during the pregnancy but we did not get back together. I supported her in all ways for the sake of the baby atleast.

I always loved my child and a bond was instant from when baby was born so don’t have the issue (or blessing in some cases) of not caring about/wanting baby.

Baby’s mum is the reason we argue as she is very spiteful that im not with her and set on making my life hard and asserting dominance and control anywhere she can. I have been doing everything on her terms for the last 15 months.

I have been going to her house just to be around my child and staying there overnight. We naively agreed that I would stick around until she feels baby is ‘old enough’ to coparent. We argue very frequently and this often ends up in her becoming violent (breaking my things, hitting me sometimes and I’ve had to defend myself before through restraining) and kicking me out the house in front of child.

Lately I have noticed my child hates it when we argue and starts moaning, so last week I decided it was the last straw after the usual argue/get kicked out/can’t see baby for over a week cycle.

I want my life back and want to be able to move on with my child properly without having to be around her.

She has agreed to let me have my baby 2 days a week during the day and drop baby off before dinner time. I want baby to stay overnight with me but mum is insistent it’s too early and that one day she will be ready to do it, but currently she is not comfortable with letting baby stay anywhere (implying I am on the same level as her sisters)

She has no problem leaving baby with me from morning til night where I do the bedtime routine etc while mum is out for friends bdays/parties/clubbing but has a problem with me doing this at my own house.

She doesn’t understand that I’m the child’s dad and have rights?

So I have spoke to mediators who put me in touch with a lawyer for ‘advice’. The lawyer called me this morning and tried to scare me into buying an hour consultation with them saying the only solution is to go straight for a court order as baby’s mum will never be cooperative, will only get worse etc etc I’ve had anxiety all morning from the call.

It’s like I’m used to this situation which others see as absolutely crazy but when I realize it’s not normal and it’s really bad it gives me anxiety. This is stressing me out a lot.

I pay towards baby’s mums rent every month and half gas and electric (which I’m not happy about but whatever) and half of baby’s needs e.g nappys milk wipes. I also on my own will buy baby toys and clothes more than what baby needs but just because I want to sondon’t mind that.

Currently my options are:

1. Run away, abandon baby and try to get over it (not going to do that)
2. Wait until baby’s mum is more cooperative and give it more time until she’s ‘comfortable’ with letting baby do overnights/try to talk her into it (been trying for ages it’s not working)
3. Initiate mediation which will go in my favor but scared to ‘take it there’ with baby’s mum as she could become even worse.
4. Go to court. Also scared to do this as mum could just make up lies and once a court order is in place it’s stuck. I have a friend who’s child’s mum lied in court and now he can’t see his kids at all after spending thousands.

I’m leaning towards option 2 but I’m really reaching the brink. I’m under stress constantly and it affects my daily life. I just don’t want any more drama and want to have some peace and be with my child regularly so they could have me and their mum and live a decent life with split parents.

What should I do? Am I being unreasonable? Is she being unreasonable?

@Throwaway388 people are trying to help you genuinely. The trouble is what we're saying is not what you want to hear.

I'd also suggest you don't approach this with a ''my legal rights' narrative as you will find the court tells you that you have no legal rights. Contact is decided based on the best interests of the child - that is the law. My ex husband argued this with the judge and severely reprimanded...

A mother has different bond to the baby. A father loves the baby and the baby loves the father but it is still different! I have a 7 month dd and she always wants me over her df (we are still together) he gets a little hurt from it but he says he understands why and that nothing beats a mother's love.
For me that age is to young to stay away from me overnight.
This isn't saying you are not capable as you do sound a good guy that loves his dd but why does she have to stay over at this point? Are you able to have her an extra day?
Think you need to compromise with the mother don't waste time the legal route considering her age and the fact you are allowed to see her will not go your way.
Good luck!

I would love that sort of arrangement that you mentioned in the last paragraph. Every time I try to ask baby’s mum for it she says bye and blocks my number. I think I’ll give it a month and see how things go and go mediation if she doesn’t come around.

Great. There are other places. Lots of 'fuck that bitch' online if you look for it.

The thing about MN is that you will get uncensored female perspectives. Which is useful if you have a thick skin and can handle it. What you're seeing is what women experience from men. We've seen our friends go through having to allow their babies to be away from them and it is heartbreaking.

Flounce if you want but the perspective could help you understand what you are trying to mitigate.

Its not a given that court will give overnights straight away. Mediation can't give you anything, it's simply a calm discussion where you come to a mutual decision. Also bear in mind that family courts have massive backlogs at the moment.

Also @Throwaway388 you are an equal parent, but bear in mind a child isn't a cake you can cut in half and feel you got a ''fair share''.

Contact is about quality not quantity - believe me.

Agree with the last couple of posts. You perhaps aren't the calm reasonable guy you're trying to come across as and the 'my rights' thing is really unhelpful. It does hurt a certain type of man's ego though when they hear they aren't the most important thing. Most realise that the primary care giver (usually mum) is actually more important to the dc in these early years. Going in to court with the current attitude won't help you

Well some rather important information was left out of your initial post, i.e. that your baby has spent many nights at your house already, albeit with mother present, and that you spent the first nine months in the same home as your baby. That is a very different situation from what was presented at first, that overnight stays/care would be a new thing to be introduced for both you and baby.

I agree with a PP suggesting to stop going to the mother's house, as it reliably ends in violence, which you need to safeguard yourself against, and safeguard your child from witnessing. I think given the specific circumstances, having your child for the times the mother is agreeing to would be the best and most amicable starting point, especially for baby.

And those places are equally bad and totally biased too

ideally op could take the moderate advice from there (it does exist) and the moderate from here and find a path.

I agree op you probably need to re-frame in your mind a bit from your rights, to the rights of the child and you (and your exes) responsibilities. I still believe you’re on the right track, mediation then court if needed. Good luck

Well some rather important information was left out of your initial post, i.e. that your baby has spent many nights at your house already, albeit with mother present, and that you spent the first nine months in the same home as your baby. That is a very different situation from what was presented at first, that overnight stays/care would be a new thing to be introduced for both you and baby.

This. Completely different.

I don't get this. Why would it be messy to go to mediation? At the minute you and your ex are exposing your baby to violence and to the sight of you being kicked out of the house. Your baby has an inconsistent routine where she sometimes doesn't see you for a whole week. This is not at all healthy, and if it carries on will be damaging. It's a very messy option.

If you go to mediation, then there will be a calm atmosphere and someone in charge of mediating the discussion. If that is unsuccessful then you can escalate through courts. Also, every time she is violent are abusive you should leave, and you should make an objective record of what she did and said, with dates and times.

Babies do form attachments to primary caregivers and 15 months is young to be away from them. But you don't know how long the process will take, so start now and by the time it's all through they might be old enough.

I agree with the child being too young,

I wasn't comfortable with leaving my little one with anybody for a day when he was 12 months, and it'll be when he's at least 2 possibly older when I'll feel comfortable leaving him overnight.

This woman is physically abuse. It makes me doubt that she will be a good parent if that is how she treats adults. Mother's aren't automatically the better parent.

I think you should save up for legal advice, and collect as much evidence as possible, so you can fight for your child.

🙄

You have responsibilities, not rights. The child has rights.

It would be quite unusual in my experience for a court to order overnight stays away from the baby's main caregiver. It is particularly the case with very young children and their mothers.

This might seem unfair to you, but parenting is unfair. For a start, only one of you has to go through pregnancy and birth, and it isn't the dad. The bond formed in utero and continued during the first couple of years of life are very important to the healthy development of a baby. "I want my rights" doesn't trump that in the eyes of the court.

Spending time with your daughter when she's awake is far more important to your bond with her than insisting on overnight stays when she's so very young.

A better option would be for you to wait until your baby is emotionally developed enough to be separated from their mum overnight.

Babies and mums are connected biologically. Mum and baby have an invisible attachment that we are really don't understand and it's so important for your baby's emotional wellbeing that you respect your baby's need to have their sleep supported by their mum.

I appreciate you want to move on with your life but your life now comes second to your baby's needs.

Once they're 4 or 5 years old, you could revisit this idea. Until then 3 or 4 hours a day two or three times a week is realistic.

I agree with PP that you need to be objectively and accurately documenting the violence, with dates and times. In order to push for any legal action, if that's what you choose in the future, you'll want to have all the relevant evidence so it's not just he said/she said.

So rather than arguing the theory of law which isn't getting anywhere, some pragmatic advice....

It sounds like you and your ex are going to end up in court eventually, so I'd get the ball rolling. That means going to mediation first and trying to reach an agreement between you.

If you fail to agree, court is the next step, and the current waiting time is up to 12 months. So by the time you get there, your DD will be 28-30 months old anyway.

In the meantime, accept what the mum offers, get your daughter used to your home and being away from mum, and ensure your home is equipped for her comfort. It will all help when you do finally get to court.

This ^

I'm with my partner and if the baby wakes in the night, they will not settle for him no matter what he does, he can mimic me perfectly and they still don't settle unless it's me 🤷‍♀️ I feel bad on him, and he's done absolutely everything he can to ensure he has a good bond etc with them, but he always says to me "the bond you have with them is amazing, I love you for it and you shouldn't feel bad, they want their mum because they're a baby".

No that’s fair enough. I did genuinely want the woman’s perspective on this.

Each situation is unique. Like I said. Her hearts not broken when she’s out clubbing til 3am and comes home and me and my child are asleep in bed.

When I sleep around there my baby ends up snuggling with me. In the mornings she runs to me and wants to play with me. Ofc she loves her mother too (maybe more who knows) but she is attached to me. Her mum used to say things like she acts different when I’m not there. There’s a million things that only a mother can do but only a dad can give that level of protection to his children.

She’s spiteful and bitter that I’m not with her anymore that’s what the issue is. When she feels like it. She blocks access. When she feels better, she ‘offers/donates/gifts’ me the ‘opportunity’ to be with my child. I never thought this place would be this biased.

Does your baby have separation anxiety from their Mother?
When my Step Daughter was around that age my Wife also didn't want her Dad to have her overnight because she would become inconsolable. He was more than welcome to see her anytime during the day however.
If she's not, then yes I think your ex is being unreasonable as you're her Dad and it will be good to get into a routine.

You’re right. Dads are just as equal to mums and it’s not fair to not be treated so. You sound like a great dad. Good luck!!

YABVU

It's young for a baby to stay away from their mother overnight. I've still only spent a total of 4 nights away from my son and he's 2y3m - and that meant leaving him at home with his father who I love and trust implicitly.

This isn't all about you and your wants. Court wouldn't necessarily go in your favour for overnight stays.

What brought you here?

I completely disagree with most of the the responses here and I'm quite outraged by them.
The reason the primary attachment is with the mother is because they do most of the care. She is denying the father of building a secure attachment. It is absolutely possible to have two primary attachments. As many have said, this isn't about feelings and so the mothers feelings should not be used to gauge when is best for overnights and drive the entire process.
If you leave it much later (i.e age 3) you risk causing an attachment injury later then.

My advice is option 3 or 4 and do everything in your power to remain absolutely calm in every single interaction, no matter how outrageous, until an agreement is in place. Seek therapy if needed to help with this.

Best of luck with everything.