Mother of child won’t let me have my daughter overnight. Is she being unreasonable?

[Throwaway388]

Me and ex have a 15 month old baby together.

Me and ex split before we even knew she was pregnant. When I found out, and knew she would not get an abortion. I stayed with her during the pregnancy but we did not get back together. I supported her in all ways for the sake of the baby atleast.

I always loved my child and a bond was instant from when baby was born so don’t have the issue (or blessing in some cases) of not caring about/wanting baby.

Baby’s mum is the reason we argue as she is very spiteful that im not with her and set on making my life hard and asserting dominance and control anywhere she can. I have been doing everything on her terms for the last 15 months.

I have been going to her house just to be around my child and staying there overnight. We naively agreed that I would stick around until she feels baby is ‘old enough’ to coparent. We argue very frequently and this often ends up in her becoming violent (breaking my things, hitting me sometimes and I’ve had to defend myself before through restraining) and kicking me out the house in front of child.

Lately I have noticed my child hates it when we argue and starts moaning, so last week I decided it was the last straw after the usual argue/get kicked out/can’t see baby for over a week cycle.

I want my life back and want to be able to move on with my child properly without having to be around her.

She has agreed to let me have my baby 2 days a week during the day and drop baby off before dinner time. I want baby to stay overnight with me but mum is insistent it’s too early and that one day she will be ready to do it, but currently she is not comfortable with letting baby stay anywhere (implying I am on the same level as her sisters)

She has no problem leaving baby with me from morning til night where I do the bedtime routine etc while mum is out for friends bdays/parties/clubbing but has a problem with me doing this at my own house.

She doesn’t understand that I’m the child’s dad and have rights?

So I have spoke to mediators who put me in touch with a lawyer for ‘advice’. The lawyer called me this morning and tried to scare me into buying an hour consultation with them saying the only solution is to go straight for a court order as baby’s mum will never be cooperative, will only get worse etc etc I’ve had anxiety all morning from the call.

It’s like I’m used to this situation which others see as absolutely crazy but when I realize it’s not normal and it’s really bad it gives me anxiety. This is stressing me out a lot.

I pay towards baby’s mums rent every month and half gas and electric (which I’m not happy about but whatever) and half of baby’s needs e.g nappys milk wipes. I also on my own will buy baby toys and clothes more than what baby needs but just because I want to sondon’t mind that.

Currently my options are:

1. Run away, abandon baby and try to get over it (not going to do that)
2. Wait until baby’s mum is more cooperative and give it more time until she’s ‘comfortable’ with letting baby do overnights/try to talk her into it (been trying for ages it’s not working)
3. Initiate mediation which will go in my favor but scared to ‘take it there’ with baby’s mum as she could become even worse.
4. Go to court. Also scared to do this as mum could just make up lies and once a court order is in place it’s stuck. I have a friend who’s child’s mum lied in court and now he can’t see his kids at all after spending thousands.

I’m leaning towards option 2 but I’m really reaching the brink. I’m under stress constantly and it affects my daily life. I just don’t want any more drama and want to have some peace and be with my child regularly so they could have me and their mum and live a decent life with split parents.

What should I do? Am I being unreasonable? Is she being unreasonable?

What's your living situation? Do you have your own place? If not, who else lives with you?

It sounds like there has been physical abuse on both sides. You mentioned her hitting you and you 'using restraint'. Agree that this is the thing you should be focusing on. this is doing most damage, much more damage than her not being overnight with you.

One thing I will say is that 15 month old children are not 'less needy', in my experience. They can be up every hour, need constant, constant supervision when mobile, often wake up before 6am raring to go, etc.

for the sake of your child, go to mediation/court.

Yeah because the mam was there too. You will get overnight stays when she's ready. You need to build up to it. I think 3 and over is a good age to start.

You will get very little support on mumsnet I’m afraid. Dads are second class parents.

id be doing option 3 or 4. Your child deserves to see you and build a relationship. Overnights are a part of that. Yes build slowly but if you’re too slow your ex will say (as some have said on other threads) that your child is now too old to start, has no bond with you etc.

also, everyone seems to have conveniently missed that your ex is violent and has hit you…

@Throwaway388 - your child is still very young to have overnight stays away from their primary caregiver and the home they’ve lived in from day 1.

You sound like a caring and involved dad, so you need to carry on with that, and carry on building the relationship with your child, and trust with her mum, and hopefully overnight stays will come in time. It isn’t easy being patient, but should be worth it in the long run.

It might be worth considering mediation, but I would advise you to go into it with an open mind - be reasonable, listen to your ex’s point of view, and express your feelings in a positive, non confrontational way. You could ask what would make your ex happier about the prospect of overnight stays - what you can do, and what might be simply a matter of time (waiting until the child is older) - establish some sort of a timetable working towards overnight stays.

Firstly. Baby has stayed at mine countless times with the mother present. Even when the mum is downstairs doing her own thing while I put baby To sleep etc.

I worked from home at child’s mums house so was there everyday with baby so the situation is different to what you’re probably used to.

And you choose to say the mums ‘offered’ 2 days a week? I’m entitled to equal and shared responsibility and access to my child. LEGALLY. I don’t understand this narrative.

1)stop going to the mums house. She clearly doesn't want you there and it's ending in violence.
2)bring the baby to yours in the 2 days you have and start building a bond that way.
3)apply for contact arrangements to be decided by court.

Parenting is a long long game. Keep a constant presence with the child but don't push for top much too soon. The voilence and arguments will really destroy the baby, so don't let her see that. Better to meet on neutral ground.

Only on mumsnet is a man being hit, then restraining someone to defend himself, deemed abusive!

Not mine. Fast asleep by 9 and wakes up by 8:30. Doesn’t really cry for anything only in rare circumstances. Let’s me know when somethings up if it’s hunger or nappy needs changing or bored etc. happy to just play and explore all day.

I think you need to go for mediation. I think you are mostly being reasonable.

It's not good for the child to keep the current arrangement going for another year or more. the bitterness between you and your ex makes a toxic environment. much healthier for the child to see each of you solo.

whilst I would agree that 15 months would be too young for most babies to be away from home with grandmas, aunties etc, you are her dad yes and assuming she's not breastfeeding your love and attention as her dad is a vital part of her growing and healthy life. she can be too young to be away from home with grandma but not to young for overnights with daddy.

It's not about "your rights" though. it's about putting your child's needs and best interests first. she needs time with her dad, and it's in her best interests for that to be in a calm and stable environment without her parents sniping at each other.

she also needs the stability of a primary caregiver at this age so don't ask for 50:50 yet. I would suggest 3 nights per fortnight, spaced evenly every 4-5 days so no two nights in a row till she's talking in full sentences

That does put a different spin on it.

Hi, I've been with my partner for 9 years, he has a 9 year old from previous toxic relationship. Similar situation to yours.
He's had overnight access to son since he was 6 months.
He's got a court order, please don't be scared by them, it's the best way to protect your relationship with your child
His ex breached the order 5 times ( text message evidence used ) and court gave her community service and a fine. You sound very articulate and if you've got the financial means , I'd recommend getting a solicitor and going down this route. You legally have to do mediation first anyway and if that doesn't work you go to court. Please consider it

You have been talking about your rights and what you are entitled to.

This is the wrong attitude to have.

Reframe it - what are your responsibilities? What rights does your child have? What is your child entitled to? What is the best way to raise your child so that they become a well adjusted adult?

This is the narrative on this site. I feel for you, but you will get shouted down, accused of being abusive and controlling, and told to suck it up.

please don’t listen, and please look elsewhere for the support and advice you need. You’re absolutely doing the right thing to be firm that both parents matter.

I'd say it's better the baby remains with their mum overnight and not the dad they live with because it's more stable for the dc and the mother will be happier if that's what they want and that will have a positive effect on the baby too imo
I personally would wait until baby is two then ask mum to start thinking about it. Then if it's not going in a reasonable direction think about court access. Always better not to turn things into a fight at the first point ime.

Well thank you for your opinion. But if I go to mediation or court they will give me overnights from now. I want to avoid things getting messy like that but it seems child’s mum is having the same perspective you are and putting subjective feelings before what our country deems as just and lawful and what is best for our child.

@Throwaway388 so did my daughter, could set my watch by her, including her haps... different story from 3 onwards, and massively deteriorated wither overnights... never recovered sadly. She has chronic sleep issues now...

Sorry should read the dad they don't live with

Feel like I’ve fallen into a lions den 🤣🤣 what on earth is going on here? First and last time on mums net

This

I would give it time. Built up gradually. Court would ask you to do mediation first, mediation is about discussing calmly and coming to a mutual agreement. Noone is told what to do. You could take it to court and they may say start with what mum has offered and work to overnight by 2 or 3. I personally felt much more confident leaving my DC overnight once they turned 2. My advise would be to take the days for now, build up a mature coparenting relationship and build on that. Your relationship with baby will not be damaged. Surely baby gets much more out of contact in the day time when they're awake than when they're asleep anyway?

There are lots of laws in this country which aren't good for dc. That's why common sense and what's good for the dc has to be well thought through before running off to court for doing what's good for the parent.

Cory may or may not grant nights straight away. It depends on the individual circumstances when dc is this young. Mediation can't give you nights but at least you will have shown to have tried to negotiate and you will know whether court is necessary or not/can proceed to court if that doesn't work out

You are actually getting a really sympathetic reception here, on the whole.

If you can't see that, then maybe you're not being as objective about the whole scenario as you think.

Seriously, stop thinking about rights, and focus on what strategies are actually going to work.

'And you choose to say the mums ‘offered’ 2 days a week? I’m entitled to equal and shared responsibility and access to my child. LEGALLY. I don’t understand this narrative.'

Stop thinking you are entitled to equal time. Parents don't have rights over children. The court will make a decision SOLELY on what is best for the child. And at 15 months, they may well decide that overnights need to be built up to gradually.

My Dniece has just been through this with her ex, and the court stipulated overnights to begin 24 months, one full day and two evenings per week until then.