Mother of child won’t let me have my daughter overnight. Is she being unreasonable?

[Throwaway388]

Me and ex have a 15 month old baby together.

Me and ex split before we even knew she was pregnant. When I found out, and knew she would not get an abortion. I stayed with her during the pregnancy but we did not get back together. I supported her in all ways for the sake of the baby atleast.

I always loved my child and a bond was instant from when baby was born so don’t have the issue (or blessing in some cases) of not caring about/wanting baby.

Baby’s mum is the reason we argue as she is very spiteful that im not with her and set on making my life hard and asserting dominance and control anywhere she can. I have been doing everything on her terms for the last 15 months.

I have been going to her house just to be around my child and staying there overnight. We naively agreed that I would stick around until she feels baby is ‘old enough’ to coparent. We argue very frequently and this often ends up in her becoming violent (breaking my things, hitting me sometimes and I’ve had to defend myself before through restraining) and kicking me out the house in front of child.

Lately I have noticed my child hates it when we argue and starts moaning, so last week I decided it was the last straw after the usual argue/get kicked out/can’t see baby for over a week cycle.

I want my life back and want to be able to move on with my child properly without having to be around her.

She has agreed to let me have my baby 2 days a week during the day and drop baby off before dinner time. I want baby to stay overnight with me but mum is insistent it’s too early and that one day she will be ready to do it, but currently she is not comfortable with letting baby stay anywhere (implying I am on the same level as her sisters)

She has no problem leaving baby with me from morning til night where I do the bedtime routine etc while mum is out for friends bdays/parties/clubbing but has a problem with me doing this at my own house.

She doesn’t understand that I’m the child’s dad and have rights?

So I have spoke to mediators who put me in touch with a lawyer for ‘advice’. The lawyer called me this morning and tried to scare me into buying an hour consultation with them saying the only solution is to go straight for a court order as baby’s mum will never be cooperative, will only get worse etc etc I’ve had anxiety all morning from the call.

It’s like I’m used to this situation which others see as absolutely crazy but when I realize it’s not normal and it’s really bad it gives me anxiety. This is stressing me out a lot.

I pay towards baby’s mums rent every month and half gas and electric (which I’m not happy about but whatever) and half of baby’s needs e.g nappys milk wipes. I also on my own will buy baby toys and clothes more than what baby needs but just because I want to sondon’t mind that.

Currently my options are:

1. Run away, abandon baby and try to get over it (not going to do that)
2. Wait until baby’s mum is more cooperative and give it more time until she’s ‘comfortable’ with letting baby do overnights/try to talk her into it (been trying for ages it’s not working)
3. Initiate mediation which will go in my favor but scared to ‘take it there’ with baby’s mum as she could become even worse.
4. Go to court. Also scared to do this as mum could just make up lies and once a court order is in place it’s stuck. I have a friend who’s child’s mum lied in court and now he can’t see his kids at all after spending thousands.

I’m leaning towards option 2 but I’m really reaching the brink. I’m under stress constantly and it affects my daily life. I just don’t want any more drama and want to have some peace and be with my child regularly so they could have me and their mum and live a decent life with split parents.

What should I do? Am I being unreasonable? Is she being unreasonable?

You don't have to prove yourself to the mother. But you will have to prove yourself to the court if it gets that far. This is how you do it. You establish a pattern of turning up on time, every time to collect and return. You pay the required amount without fail. Because, as someone said earlier, the court will decide on evidence.

I agree there.

I think a lot if posters are answering remembering how THEY felt about leaving their child overnight at 15 months. Tbh that’s not what it is about.

They also answer from the pov that they have clearly been the primary care giver with a partner that has not shared the load 50/50. And with the attitude that nothing can replace a mother. Very sexist imo.

I think you need some legal agreement in place re how often your dd stays at your house. You need set days, information around hols etc…

My last comment was supposed to say support network** not better haha.

Option 3 or 4

You need to go to court and get an order in place.

15 months is plenty old enough for overnights with dad. It's completely unacceptable that mum isn't 'allowing' this.

Here is some info

www.gov.uk/looking-after-children-divorce

I agree with this^^

Baby's and kids shouldn't have to witness arguments/fights, I know people can get angry and things can get sour fast. But I think it would be beneficial to you both to work on your communication etc, so you can both healthily explain why you feel how you feel, and can both properly listen to eachother too

This is really not about fathers having less rights. I have seen similar with a male friend who was the RP for his baby son. You get answers that appear biased because generally it is a mum that is the RP. It is about a very young baby staying with a RP they see every day and a NRP wanting to increase contact, especially to overnight which is a big step, and the RP not feeling comfortable.

Based on the fact your dd's mum takes contact away as a punishment/on a whim it would best to get contact and child maintenance formalised. Then everyone knows where they stand.

I would suggest keeping a diary of allcontact including overnights, and any contact withdrawn, which you can use to show how committed you are. Go to mediation and/or court with a willingness to always put your dd first by building up to contact and overnights at the level agreed.

Put simply, no, fathers are not equal parents when a baby is still young.

Men do not have boobs, men do not breastfeed, men do not get pregnant, men do not give birth. There is an extremely obvious biological reason that when a baby is being breastfed, of course fathers are not equal parents to mothers. They are not feeding the child from their own bodies.

Think you are getting a hard time here.
You are baby's father and should have the right to have your child stay overnight. I assume you are paying more maintenance because no overnight stays also

I disagree that baby is too young. My dd has stayed over with grandparents from very young age and is 1 now and will happily stay with others. You can't generalise this situation as OPs baby might be totally fine. Unless they try they will never know

OP if you are a kind and loving father then I don't see an issue. Understand it is hard for mothers to let go but you and your child also deserve to build that relationship too.

You want to avoid the legal route and get what you want and I just don't think that is going to happen, because there are clearly conflicts between you and your ex.

You need to go to court and get them to do a contact agreement, which can be changed as the child gets older.

And go through CMS for the child maintenence payments.

If you make it all legal, and with a third party it let's you take some of the emotion and blame out of it.

You also need to get the abuse reported. You are talking about fathers rights and your right to have your child overnight but not how to get your child out of an abusive household.

Btw before looking at the Courts, I’d look at what the Courts usually find normal.
aka do they normally give overnight to the father at 18 months, 2yo or 3yo?

Use that as a reference rather than MN to decide when it’s appropriate to go down the legal route.

In the mean time, stick to a routine as closely as possible. See your dd as much as you can and keep a record of it.
Pay CM.
If you can take your dd to have her vaxs done, visits to the GP if needed etc… be as involved with her as you can, not just ‘doing a bit if childcare’ iyswim

I was a child of divorced parents, and I didn’t want to sleep at my dad’s, I wanted to sleep in my own bed at home. With mum.

And also with the violent behaviour etc on her part,
I'd seek advice on how to help get her some support, but at the same time,

Whenever you're there and about to have a discussion on a topic that regularly causes this behaviour - record it all on your phone.
More to just protect yourself, and have evidence if needed, on her behaviour in certain situations. Don't manipulate it though or try to get anger from her on purpose, just remember in your mind that you can record things on your phone if things become heated x

She doesn’t have any anxiety of leaving her anywhere. She often lets her sisters look after her when she goes out etc which I always say why would you not give her to me instead. She says ‘she has aunties too’.

im going there on Friday to look after my child while she goes shopping but I miss my little one too much haven’t seen her since the last big argument on Friday so I don’t mind.

my child is very used to coming to my house

It's not too young to be away from mother. Child will be with father and he sounds perfectly capable.
Go to court and get an order. She has to prove any allegations she makes.
Keep all text messages etc polite and neutral and focused on child.

I'm a single parent, mother.

Personally I'd leave her to it take her pace. Start paying maintenance and not bits a bobs.

Have the child daytime if she feels comfortable with that. And carry on from there. You are going to have to build trust and take the higher ground, don't argue just agree.

We only have your side of the story here. But arguing and shouting in front of children is awful. Personally I would not have stayed over! Or at least left the minute you could feel it getting tense. Not sure why you kept going back knowing this would happen.

And most of all no matters how much she winds you up and creates drama fir you. Think of your child and what she needs.

I hated being away from my mum, I adored my dad, and I loved having days out with him etc, but mum was where I felt the safest at night time. It took many years for me to sleep at my nan's, but only because my mum would sleep there with me to start with (I was around 5) to get me used to it. X

one of my kids once fell over, first scream out of her mouth? "mummy".
We were both in the house, him closer, she ran to me. "equal parents"

Women grow, birth, nurture the child and will have a bond on only a mother can have.

If your daughter wakes in the night, i guarantee you she will be screaming for mummy.

Listen to the mother, hauling her to court and mediation is not the way to go here. Be patient and offer to have her more days and drop the obsession of overnights - shes so young

I haven’t read the full thread, just your posts. Do you have parental rights I.e. are you named on the birth certificate?
You should invite her to mediation to discuss childcare arrangements and your financial contributions. Unless you are a very high earner you seem to be paying a lot more than you are required to. It’s not a race to the bottom and of course you don’t have to pay the absolute minimum but still there are guidelines there for a reason.
A child of 15 months old is of course old enough to stay overnight. Try and collate as much information as you can about your history of looking after the child on your own as this will support your ability to demonstrate you can.
Leave all talk of ‘lies’ and ‘bitterness’ out of it going forward. It will get you nowhere. Going to mediation will show you are serious about this. You shouldn’t rule out Court on the basis of what happened to others. Finally the solicitor isn’t trying to scare you in to paying for a consultation - a plumber doesn’t come round on a call out without a fee, lawyers need to get paid to provide advice.

Maybe because people are making assumptions which if incorrect, I am correcting them as I am the only one commenting on this post who is actually in the situation?

Incorrect. Baby cares a lot. If the baby is with one parent most of the time and living at their house and sleeping there overnight, the baby will very very likely naturally have a preference for that parent who is the primary carer.

That parent in this situation is the baby's mother.

Yes but in that case, the mother isn’t bf’ing since tte baby was 2 months old.
We are out of the 4th trimester. The child is over 1 year old, on solids etc….

You can’t say at the same time that the father shouldn’t have overnight stays because physiological differences AND say that fathers should be involved an share the load equally, women can go out for the night whilst dad is looking after them etc…

Imo if dad is good enough to look after a child during the day or on a night outs, then he us also able to look after baby during overnight stays.

If you weren’t comfortable with 1st solicitor then get some more legal advice but you will need to pay.
I’d favour the qualified advice not something a mate told you.
You are approaching from your point of view. It’s about best interests of child. You don’t have rights just parental responsibility (assuming you are named on bc)
Her mum is primary carer. She’s knows mums house, relies on mum for comfort.
If you don’t want to proceed on mums terms then you need to apply to court. It won’t necessarily get to ct, could resolve amicably.

why do you begrudge paying maintenance?

Nice dig there about mum going out to parties and spas, I’m sure you do things in your free time.

I agree this baby is too young for overnight stays and you sound quite immature.

Why are you paying half the rent and bills? You need to go through court and get a proper contact agreement in place. You being forced to see your child in her home and it leading to arguments in front of the child is not good at all. You should be able to have your child overnight now. A court would likely support that and I would suggest you go through CMS and find out what you should be paying.

I was going to say we only have one side of the story.

I have many friends who are single parents, one of them wasn't comfortable leaving her little one overnight with her ex until the little one was 2. He was very supportive and just offered to have her during the day and waited for her to be ready. She opened up to me and her main worry was the little one wanting her mum in the night and not being able to verbally communicate this, and her ex's history of anger - and he fully understood. It's been 6 months since her little one turned 2, she's stopped at her dads 3 times, each time she ended up having a meltdown at 2/3AM and he would drop her back off to be with mum. But he's been nothing but supportive, he's just being patient x