Mother of child won’t let me have my daughter overnight. Is she being unreasonable?

[Throwaway388]

Me and ex have a 15 month old baby together.

Me and ex split before we even knew she was pregnant. When I found out, and knew she would not get an abortion. I stayed with her during the pregnancy but we did not get back together. I supported her in all ways for the sake of the baby atleast.

I always loved my child and a bond was instant from when baby was born so don’t have the issue (or blessing in some cases) of not caring about/wanting baby.

Baby’s mum is the reason we argue as she is very spiteful that im not with her and set on making my life hard and asserting dominance and control anywhere she can. I have been doing everything on her terms for the last 15 months.

I have been going to her house just to be around my child and staying there overnight. We naively agreed that I would stick around until she feels baby is ‘old enough’ to coparent. We argue very frequently and this often ends up in her becoming violent (breaking my things, hitting me sometimes and I’ve had to defend myself before through restraining) and kicking me out the house in front of child.

Lately I have noticed my child hates it when we argue and starts moaning, so last week I decided it was the last straw after the usual argue/get kicked out/can’t see baby for over a week cycle.

I want my life back and want to be able to move on with my child properly without having to be around her.

She has agreed to let me have my baby 2 days a week during the day and drop baby off before dinner time. I want baby to stay overnight with me but mum is insistent it’s too early and that one day she will be ready to do it, but currently she is not comfortable with letting baby stay anywhere (implying I am on the same level as her sisters)

She has no problem leaving baby with me from morning til night where I do the bedtime routine etc while mum is out for friends bdays/parties/clubbing but has a problem with me doing this at my own house.

She doesn’t understand that I’m the child’s dad and have rights?

So I have spoke to mediators who put me in touch with a lawyer for ‘advice’. The lawyer called me this morning and tried to scare me into buying an hour consultation with them saying the only solution is to go straight for a court order as baby’s mum will never be cooperative, will only get worse etc etc I’ve had anxiety all morning from the call.

It’s like I’m used to this situation which others see as absolutely crazy but when I realize it’s not normal and it’s really bad it gives me anxiety. This is stressing me out a lot.

I pay towards baby’s mums rent every month and half gas and electric (which I’m not happy about but whatever) and half of baby’s needs e.g nappys milk wipes. I also on my own will buy baby toys and clothes more than what baby needs but just because I want to sondon’t mind that.

Currently my options are:

1. Run away, abandon baby and try to get over it (not going to do that)
2. Wait until baby’s mum is more cooperative and give it more time until she’s ‘comfortable’ with letting baby do overnights/try to talk her into it (been trying for ages it’s not working)
3. Initiate mediation which will go in my favor but scared to ‘take it there’ with baby’s mum as she could become even worse.
4. Go to court. Also scared to do this as mum could just make up lies and once a court order is in place it’s stuck. I have a friend who’s child’s mum lied in court and now he can’t see his kids at all after spending thousands.

I’m leaning towards option 2 but I’m really reaching the brink. I’m under stress constantly and it affects my daily life. I just don’t want any more drama and want to have some peace and be with my child regularly so they could have me and their mum and live a decent life with split parents.

What should I do? Am I being unreasonable? Is she being unreasonable?

You said you want to live 30 minutes away, how will that work with school? What about playdates or parties or after school activities? My DD does 3 after school activities a week, one doesn't start until 6pm so would you take your DD back to your house to then drive her 30 minutes to her activity? What about if she wants a friend over, will you be driving the friend around.

My Ex lives a 10 minute drive from me, and even thats a bit difficult sometimes, he's not in the catchment for her school so all her friends are near me and her friends parents don't like going there to pick up their DC so Ex does all the running around. Would you be happy to potentially have to drive 2 hours a day to run her friends back and forth?

Tbh your replies seem quite sarcastic. I wouldn’t be surprised if you are a man trolling to make women and men argue on here. You’re probably judge too. You sound like you’re trolling to spark a reaction

I live in London driving anywhere at 5pm is pretty much a half hour drive lol not sure what the issue with a 30 min drive is?

I read that and thought :
Relationship is dead. She’s throwing things. He’s physically restraining her (which would be scary for her). Bad volatile relationship. He doesn’t sound scared of her if he’s restraining her.
He says in that post that this is not an acceptable situation to have in daughter witness (I agree). His solution of moving out, minimizing communication (and therefore conflict) and sorting shared care of their daughter appears to me to be an excellent one. His OP is really about how to sort out that shared care. -Try for cooperation or go to court.
Threads where the OP needs to flee to a refuge have a very different feel. The OP usually starts by asking if one aspect of her partner’s behavior is normal, and gradually the OP realizes she’s being abused and then she’s scared because she doesn’t know how to leave safely because she knows he’ll react in a way that’s terrifying.

And often there are a lot of practical considerations because the abused OP hasn’t got access to money or a car or has no friends or poor relationships with her family. OP is fine. He’s not living in that situation anymore. He has money and power. He just needs to sort out shared care - which don’t get me wrong is emotionally and practically challenging. But this isn’t a refuge situation.

Lol dw about me in that sense. She can get really violent but I’m fully aware it’s not normal and other women have never acted like this with me I can defend myself if it gets too much and I can take a kick or punch here and there. I know I could or maybe should call police etc but wouldn’t want to get her in trouble. That’s not my concern and I don’t feel unsafe or anything.

But your child is witnessing domestic abuse so it's not fine. Do you have any concerns about her behaviour towards the baby ?

Agree with this completely.

Cannot believe so many are saying the OP should prove himself to a violent woman. Or that he is unable to have his daughter overnight. Has no one even left their child with a grandparent one night?

Best thing for the child is her getting used to a new place early as possible and she's already used to OP doing bed time routine.

@Throwaway388 I would maybe give it a few weeks of seeing your DD during the day then speak to ex again about overnights. If she disagrees you can then try for mediation and you'll have built up some proof of you caring for your daughter alone.

Save all messages in case you need them later. Try and get in writing how often you do bedtime, look after her on your own etc.

If you were a woman and said a man was attacking you and smashing things they would urge you to call the police and contact Woman's Aid, even go to a refuge and definitely do not let him round the child.

The double standards are sickening.

I know you say you can handle it op, but absolutely no one should be kicked or hit. I have listed the helpline for Mankind. There is website info as well. You can talk to them in confidentiality. It is not ever okay for her to hurt you, even if you feel 'safe' look after yourself

01823 334244
www.mankind.org.uk/

I am glad you have moved out, I am sure the rest can be sorted out. Maybe the violence is a bigger reason to go down the mediation/legal route.

She doesn’t witness that part she sees the arguing which I don’t like. I always try to go into another room when we argue and tell child’s mum to do the same but when she gets angry she can’t control her self. But not concerned about her with baby

Throwaway- In the end. The ideal situation is for my child to be happy. To be close to her mum and dad. To have two homes. I don’t mind splitting the week 60/40 so 4 nights with mum 3 nights with me. I want me and her mum to get along and be cordial. I want us to live close enough so school journeys are 30 mins max (currently one hour away but I’m still up and down constantly). I want my child to have a good life and be set up to succeed as an adult, to know what to look for in a man and believe only her father can show her that. I don’t want her feeling abandoned by me, or being taught to hate me or growing up with daddy issues etc it seems simple and hopefully one day I can think back to these times and laugh at them but unfortunately, it isn’t just down to me.

Thank you for answering me btw, i apologise for asking so much it's just I do want to give good advice and sometimes we need more to go off!

In regards to the violence& everything else, if you're not wanting to go down the reporting path - I think you should keep a diary, buy one that's easy to look at for yourself/professionals, (maybe a day per page one) and just jot down absolutely everything, whenever contact is made between you & mother, how it goes, when you see the child etc

So personally, as you said 'in the end' - I think you keep track/notes of absolutely everything. Take screenshots of texts and attach them in an email them to yourself if you have to - you could do it monthly and use the month/year as subject etc so it's organised.
I think it's key for you to back yourself up with evidence as much as possible

Whenever you go to see your daughter/speak to your ex, be as amicable as you possibly can be, be calm, be patient, and be as understanding as possible (this is just so that things work in your favour and not just hers, if you maintain a calmness about you, it will be better for you)

I think you should get the ball rolling with certain things now, just as there can be waits on things, seek legal advice, get as many free consultations as you can, there are also Facebook groups where you can post anonymously and they are run by solicitors and other qualified people (Legal Advice UK is one of them). Build the foundations now, and then you can have the best mindset and knowledge possible.

As I said though in the meantime, let the ball be in her court and you focus on getting things in place.

Sort out the money stuff legally and then I would Pursue the court side of things for contact. This will mean they can see that you've sorted the money issues yourself and you have all the info etc you need to get through it all.

Earlier on I mentioned how it must be hard for the mother to leave her daughter, I didn't want this to come across as a 'mothers bond is stronger' type of view - however I did see others make this comment (I've been commenting since you posted) - and I know I asked you lots about mothers mental health, if she's had therapy etc, as I just wanted a better understanding :) I wanted to let you have a better insight too into what may be going through her head?

But definitely cover your back and cover all areas you can, get proper legal advice and stick to it all.

I can tell that you want nothing but the best for your daughter and that's wonderful, and as I said in a previous comment - don't be scared of her growing up thinking you don't love her - I love my dad more than I can even put into words and I know he'd move mountains for me. X

Just so you know a child witnessing domestic abuse is considered child cause. just because you don't feel scared from the violence doesnt mean your child will be similarly unaffected. Do have a serious think about whether you want to do anything about it more officially.

I grew up with an abusive mum and I can quite seriously say I would have preferred ti live just with my dad from a very young age.

I agree with what confusedNT just wrote also.

It's no good for your daughter to witness any of it, she could grow up thinking that this is the normal way for couples/parents to interact with eachother x

Baby isn't ' too young ' but it's concerning that you say you ' pay towards mums rent ' you are responsible for paying child maintenance and it's a contribution- doesn't matter what she then does with it

Also mediation won't ' go in your favour ' at all
It's always the best interest of the children
They are there to mediate and mediate only
It doesn't always work anyway

Courts is the best option - judges don't side with anyone they make the best decision based on the child

Stop saying you have rights
You have no rights
The CHILD has rights to see both parents

Speak to dads unlimited - they will help you and help with some of the terminology you are using as it's wrong

Really don't get people saying baby is better with a mum who it seems can be violent

@riotlady

Equal doesn't mean everyone doing the same thing. How could it? Our bodies do completely different things when it comes to pregnancy and the nurturing of a baby.

The hormonal profile of mothers and fathers differs enormously. In particular, oxytocin controls the mood and responsiveness of mothers. It can be immensely stressful for a mother to be physically separated from her baby.

The blind assertion of equality of function - and setting this as the value above all others including the welfare of the mother - is a problem. A man's contribution to the welfare of a baby is support of the mother, financial, physical, and emotional. It doesn't consist of horning in on functions a woman is better suited to accomplishing thanks to biology of both mother and baby.

So it's not ok to insist on bottle feeding so that a man can have his turn feeding the baby, or to insist a woman pumps milk so a man can feed. It's not ok to insist that both the mother and father take equal time holding and soothing the baby and also share the housework load when the baby arrives. It wouldn't be ok to insist that the man takes the first stretch of parental leave and the woman the second, if both are legally entitled to leave.

Finally, using equality as a weapon to bash women over the head with is distasteful in the extreme. It's a very misogynistic argument. Women want and need men to step up when a baby arrives. Do the housework. Clean up after himself. Leave the loo the way the woman wants to find it, not in a way that requires she clean it before she can use it. Make a shopping list. Engage their brains around the house. Don't ask the woman where something is if it goes missing or you can't see it. Don't look for a medal for doing very basic stuff around the house. Don't expect the woman to pay for the baby necessities out of maternity pay. It's a shared baby and support includes financial support. If the couple have parted, pay up, pay in full, pay without complaint.

@Swissmountains 17:36

Agree 100% with your post.

Is this OP forgetting to log out of his sock puppet account?

That was a long read, can't quite believe I'm contributing. But anyway, what was the set up from birth? You were not together but you went to the mother's house to wfh and therefore be around your daughter? That sounds horrendous for everyone. I get pissed off when my DH works from home cos he there but not there if you see what I mean. He pops his head out, gets in the way or gets a child excited to see him then pops back into his study. It's a much different vibe being home with the kids when he's not there. If I were your ex I would've gone spare at your presence in my home. Can't go back in time but I would've suggested that it would have been much more beneficial early on for you to take your daughter away for a couple of hours, giving your ex peace and giving you quality time with the baby rather than weird half there half working time. Such an odd set up.

Having my husband wfh is bad enough I honestly can't think of anything worse than having my ex hanging around my house. So what, she was on mat leave, you'd be working in another room and hear the baby cry. Do you swoop in the second she cries and try and fix it? Or wait for 2 mins? Or wait til she's hysterical and your ex is crying too and is livid that you are in the house and not willing or able (for example on a call) to help?

I have zero experience of coparenting but didn't imagine that it would mean caring for the child together at any point.

PP mentioned quality time over quantity. I think you need to stop spending time with your ex. It clearly isn't working if you are fighting and I can't see any reason why you need to be in the same room beyond a quick handover chat about your daughter.

She sounds like my Mum. She couldn't control herself with my Dad and we were 'apparently all she cared about because he didn't' - then as soon as we were old enough it was us getting hit and emotionally abused. We are all no contact now.

Your DD is your ex's bargaining chip right now. She is little and does what she's told, what happens when she talks back? Will her Mum have learned to control herself by then?

Don't go in all guns blazing but take advice and play it smart. Your daughter will need you.

If this the case you are risking the child
remove the child and cite safeguarding concerns and abuse
after all you want to be treated equally that’s what any woman and mother would be told

Equal parental responsibility yes. What this means is that you have an equal say in major decisions in your child's life. For example, school. You ex cannot 'dictate' which school - it must be agreed by both of you absent order of the court. Similarly, medical decisions etc.

Equal parental responsibility does not mean equal contact time, or a right to any contact for that matter. Contact is separate to parental responsibility in all senses. That being said, legally, their is a presumption of contact being in the best interest of the child. What that contact looks like will vary child to child, family to family.

It sounds to me like you want to be a Dad and want to be involved. You see your DD whenever you can, you go to appts, you contribute, you do ''care'' - ie. bedtime, feeding, play. I think right now, you are scared because of your ex and her threats - which are totally unacceptable and bad for the child. You are understandably worried she will limit contact as / when she feels like it. That is not ok.

I think others are right, you will end up in court. Your best route to ensuring your daughter can spend regular time with you is to put forth a standard schedule, which I maintain should not include overnights when she is so little. Propose a phased approach, now to pre-school age, pre-school to school etc. A routine that can start and develop over time. This is reasonable child centric approach that based on my experience of court ( I've spent 4 years in family court dealing with various applications from my ex) - the court will look positively on these proposals as very simply they show you care more about your daughter, her age, stage and needs at each point than what looks ''fair'' on paper. You would be making about your child and not a sense of fairness. Make every compromise you can, be flexible. Avoid conflict. Placate your ex, it's best for your child.

Nothing is fair about being a child of divorce and nothing is ''fair'' about single parenting believe me. I've done 99% of the care because my ex simply doesn't want to unless our child lives with him. I've done every doctor, dentist, optician, school appt, parents evening, sports day alone with DD, paid 100% of cost (he won't pay unless she lives with him). Every time I have to placate my ex I want to scream - the sheer injustice of it all, including the endless legal fees every time he applies to court. Most difficult of all are the a sea of tears I've had to wipe from DD on each occasion she feels Daddy 'doesn't care'.

Bend yourself backwards for your daughter and avoid conflict with your ex. I promise you, one day she will thank you.

It is not the split homes, or split parents that damages a child it is the conflict when both parents are not aligned.