Mother of child won’t let me have my daughter overnight. Is she being unreasonable?

[Throwaway388]

Me and ex have a 15 month old baby together.

Me and ex split before we even knew she was pregnant. When I found out, and knew she would not get an abortion. I stayed with her during the pregnancy but we did not get back together. I supported her in all ways for the sake of the baby atleast.

I always loved my child and a bond was instant from when baby was born so don’t have the issue (or blessing in some cases) of not caring about/wanting baby.

Baby’s mum is the reason we argue as she is very spiteful that im not with her and set on making my life hard and asserting dominance and control anywhere she can. I have been doing everything on her terms for the last 15 months.

I have been going to her house just to be around my child and staying there overnight. We naively agreed that I would stick around until she feels baby is ‘old enough’ to coparent. We argue very frequently and this often ends up in her becoming violent (breaking my things, hitting me sometimes and I’ve had to defend myself before through restraining) and kicking me out the house in front of child.

Lately I have noticed my child hates it when we argue and starts moaning, so last week I decided it was the last straw after the usual argue/get kicked out/can’t see baby for over a week cycle.

I want my life back and want to be able to move on with my child properly without having to be around her.

She has agreed to let me have my baby 2 days a week during the day and drop baby off before dinner time. I want baby to stay overnight with me but mum is insistent it’s too early and that one day she will be ready to do it, but currently she is not comfortable with letting baby stay anywhere (implying I am on the same level as her sisters)

She has no problem leaving baby with me from morning til night where I do the bedtime routine etc while mum is out for friends bdays/parties/clubbing but has a problem with me doing this at my own house.

She doesn’t understand that I’m the child’s dad and have rights?

So I have spoke to mediators who put me in touch with a lawyer for ‘advice’. The lawyer called me this morning and tried to scare me into buying an hour consultation with them saying the only solution is to go straight for a court order as baby’s mum will never be cooperative, will only get worse etc etc I’ve had anxiety all morning from the call.

It’s like I’m used to this situation which others see as absolutely crazy but when I realize it’s not normal and it’s really bad it gives me anxiety. This is stressing me out a lot.

I pay towards baby’s mums rent every month and half gas and electric (which I’m not happy about but whatever) and half of baby’s needs e.g nappys milk wipes. I also on my own will buy baby toys and clothes more than what baby needs but just because I want to sondon’t mind that.

Currently my options are:

1. Run away, abandon baby and try to get over it (not going to do that)
2. Wait until baby’s mum is more cooperative and give it more time until she’s ‘comfortable’ with letting baby do overnights/try to talk her into it (been trying for ages it’s not working)
3. Initiate mediation which will go in my favor but scared to ‘take it there’ with baby’s mum as she could become even worse.
4. Go to court. Also scared to do this as mum could just make up lies and once a court order is in place it’s stuck. I have a friend who’s child’s mum lied in court and now he can’t see his kids at all after spending thousands.

I’m leaning towards option 2 but I’m really reaching the brink. I’m under stress constantly and it affects my daily life. I just don’t want any more drama and want to have some peace and be with my child regularly so they could have me and their mum and live a decent life with split parents.

What should I do? Am I being unreasonable? Is she being unreasonable?

@Rick81

If the OP went to court he could represent himself and it would simply cost the application fee of £232. In any case they would have to attend mediation first and things might get sorted here.

I think the courts would be refreshed to see a father that truly cares apply because he is getting the run around.

That said the respondent parent can also flout the court order afterwards... I don't think a free 1/2 hour with a family solicitor would hurt.

I don’t think the relationship with the father is the same as the relationship with the mother when the child is still a baby. I don’t think it is equal when the child is still a baby- the baby has been dependent on mums body for a long time, during pregnancy and those early months - there’s something to this that is not the same with a baby’s’ father in my opinion. X

It's so wild though. If it were the other way around, the advice would be to cut contact with the other parent and keep the child away from them

I didn't want my baby of 6 months to have nights away from me. But when I separated from the kids dad I had to acknowledge the kids right to have a relationship with their father. My little boy stayed overnight with his dad from 6 months but this was also because his older brother was doing the same. It was hard. It didn't feel 'natural' as a mum being away from either of them. But 18 months later and overnights have worked out fine. Kids have a good relationship with their dad- that's all I wanted. My ex did let me visit his home so I could check it out and we do video calls etc.

This.

Based on your update it's more like the "split" has only just occurred at 15 months of age. Now that doesn't necessarily mean instant overnights, but the fact that baby is already used to BOTH houses makes a difference as well, in your favour. If what you say about being a hands on dad is true, you've probably done more than the average dad in the first 15 months.

What do you actually want? 50/50 Shared care? I think the mediation/solicitor option may actually be the best one here. Does your ex work? Can you start by covering a day childcare while she works?

I’ve not read the full thread @Throwaway388 but you’re talking to a predominantly female audience and appear to be a Mumsnet Unicorn (a Dad that cares and has put up with a lot of shit). If only all Dads were as present as you.

From what I’d read I think it’s more than fair to request overnight contact and I’m pretty sure you’d be granted this, but it will need to go to court and can get very messy. If she’s inclined she could limit contact between now and a decision. I think I’d be having a frank talk to try and draw up a legal agreement in which you are allowed overnights at some point in the future. If the age is too far away and you’d like to push through the courts then do it.

But I will add I already trusted my ex as a good parent as I had seen him with our eldest. Maybe it's just something you can build up to? Especially as baby gets older and can chat and tell mum about her time with you etc.

Number 1 is not an option. Your a dad!
It gets hard so you leave? Breaking your daughters heart is your number 1 option?

Perhaps this is an attitude in you that she sees and doesn’t trust.
Your a dad! Suck it up!

@mummytippy yeah. He doesn't need to only if he controls his "reprehensible behaviour. He is literally allowing her to abuse him plus he rewards this behaviour by contributing more than he has to. How many nights court will give him at this age ( 16 months) anyway? One night, two? I would focus on days until the child is 2.5yo minimum, unless mother approach him sooner. As you know those weekends where mother will start to ask for " me time" is coming. That's when I would negotiate. I would say " sure , but also couple of nights during week days on top".

I think the idea of mother and father being equal is becoming really distorted on here.

A mother and father are not equal to a baby.

The mother gives the child life within her own body, the bonding takes place immediately and continues for nine months. The baby can even distinguish the scent of its own mother immediately after birth and will look to her voice, sound. The baby feels safe and protected and is fed exclusively by the mother. The bonding deepens with days, as the baby becomes securely attached, as nature intended. This is an entirely biological and natural process, and one that is essential to the health and well being of the baby.

Over the weeks and months the baby and mother are still one unit. This unit continues for a very long time and allows the child to move on from having basic needs met - food, security to the next stage of learning and communication etc, and it is one of the main reasons why toddlers suffer so badly from separation anxiety.

To say that mother and father are the same and equal is to defy the laws and terms of biology.

When people refer to parenthood equality - they usually refer to one of equal responsibility, equal commitment to the child, equal share of feeling invested in the child etc. It would be ridiculous and incorrect to ever expect the parents to be equal at this stage to the baby, and the baby's needs.

The primary parent to a baby is almost always the mother, and it is the case the world over and has been over a milennia.

That may not be the woke update on the matter, but it has been the case for many thousands of years and will be long after we have departed.

Are we all reading the same Op?

If the roles were reversed 99% of you would be telling the Op to take their child and leave, based on the fact the other parent is abusive.

As a mother we do not hold rights over our children just because we carried them and love them, most of us I assume decided to get pregnant by the father and understood that they may want to do certain things with your shared child on their own?

From what I have read Op has a consistent relationship with his dc, has been in her life from the day she was born, provides for her and knows her routine fully. The child is not breastfed and has formed an attachment to both her parents, so having his dc stay over at his house one night a week is really not that unreasonable, especially seeing as though the mother is abusive to Op infront of their child and is actively trying to alienate Op.

It is going to be more damaging to the child growing up in one dysfunctional home than growing up in two happy homes and it gives both parents and the child to form and build their own relationships, in the hopes one day they can co-parent better.

Op, please go to mediation and get advice from a solicitor, do not walk away from your child but stay away from her mother. Stop staying there overnight and keep all form of communication via text or email so you have evidence if it should ever go to court.

Keep up with the day visits for now until you get proper advice and have an action plan.

Did you actually read and comprehend the op?

You absolutely need to go to court. She can lie all she wants they’re used to it & will need real hard evidence to stop you seeing your daughter. You cannot live like this, treading on egg shells waiting until you inevitably piss her off and she stops you seeing your daughter. You’re right, you’re her father and have 50% rights & responsibility’s. I think you sound like a great dad who is working towards an amicable 50/50 parenting situation. Please go to court, your daughter deserves consistency, do not be scared. I have 3 children, the youngest being your DDs age and whilst I don’t love the idea of her not staying with me over night if me and her dad split up I would know it was just par of the course & never, ever try to stop it. YANBU!

@Swissmountains the only reason why toddlers suffer from seperation anxiety is because mother failed to nurture child properly. Yes it's called" good enough mother ". Read about it, if process of seperation individuation is disrupted by lazy,depressive,not nurturing or simply disfuncional mother,then the child developes disfunctional attachment style.

Oh it’s his fault for being hit. He’s allowing her to abuse him and rewarding that by paying?

and for those who question if there are people out there who are apologists for violence against men…

A 15 month year old is a toddler.

Children over 1 are often in childcare for 10 to 12 hours a day.

They are also often left with family and friends overnight they have known since babies with no issues.

The OP is the toddler's dad so the child won't have an issue being left with him as long as she knows when her mother will turn up again and the mother turns up when she says, and vice versa.

How did I guess you would say that!
Bingo.
I see exactly who you are now. Thanks for that.

Your poor son.

so sad that you’re involved in raising a child when your harbour such bitterness and ignorance.

I don't know any one year old in care 12 hours a day and overnight in different places, apart from the poor souls in care.

**Poor souls in foster care

We both work full time but both wfh forgot to mention we also have a nanny wed-fri which we pay half each for.
so pretty much I was everyday every night until around 12 months, decreasing a little from 9 months due to arguing etc I realized that we would ALWAYS argue if I was there more than one night in a row. So from around 12 months I was there around 3 nights a week and would stay til around 8ish and either do bedtime before going home or go just before bath time but after giving dinner. Would also come mine once every two weeks? for an overnight stay with mum.

People asharing their experiences of how hard it is to be away from their baby has no relevance unless there is an implication that this is connected with what's best for the baby which is categorically not true.
Of course it will be tough for the mum and that is sad. It is also tough for the dad, also sad.
The child deserves to feel safe sleeping over at both homes and to maintain equally close attachments with both parents. Hard to hear for many mums but it is completely possible.

No neither do I
i also don’t know if fifteen month olds who who spend nights a week away from their mother when she is a single parent and not in a stable loving family relation with the father who has been involved from the get go with all aspects of parenting not just buying toys

I am appalled at how little value threads like this place on what is actually best for a tiny child.

Totally agree, fathers should habe exactly the same rights as mothers but unfortunately so many women use their children as weapons. 15 months is not too young to be with her father, fight her all the way. Good luck.

If this is the case then your only option is mediation and/or court. I’m unsure why you’re wasting your time asking us when you’re already convinced that you’re in the right (and to be honest given what you’ve said I agree with you).