Mother of child won’t let me have my daughter overnight. Is she being unreasonable?

[Throwaway388]

Me and ex have a 15 month old baby together.

Me and ex split before we even knew she was pregnant. When I found out, and knew she would not get an abortion. I stayed with her during the pregnancy but we did not get back together. I supported her in all ways for the sake of the baby atleast.

I always loved my child and a bond was instant from when baby was born so don’t have the issue (or blessing in some cases) of not caring about/wanting baby.

Baby’s mum is the reason we argue as she is very spiteful that im not with her and set on making my life hard and asserting dominance and control anywhere she can. I have been doing everything on her terms for the last 15 months.

I have been going to her house just to be around my child and staying there overnight. We naively agreed that I would stick around until she feels baby is ‘old enough’ to coparent. We argue very frequently and this often ends up in her becoming violent (breaking my things, hitting me sometimes and I’ve had to defend myself before through restraining) and kicking me out the house in front of child.

Lately I have noticed my child hates it when we argue and starts moaning, so last week I decided it was the last straw after the usual argue/get kicked out/can’t see baby for over a week cycle.

I want my life back and want to be able to move on with my child properly without having to be around her.

She has agreed to let me have my baby 2 days a week during the day and drop baby off before dinner time. I want baby to stay overnight with me but mum is insistent it’s too early and that one day she will be ready to do it, but currently she is not comfortable with letting baby stay anywhere (implying I am on the same level as her sisters)

She has no problem leaving baby with me from morning til night where I do the bedtime routine etc while mum is out for friends bdays/parties/clubbing but has a problem with me doing this at my own house.

She doesn’t understand that I’m the child’s dad and have rights?

So I have spoke to mediators who put me in touch with a lawyer for ‘advice’. The lawyer called me this morning and tried to scare me into buying an hour consultation with them saying the only solution is to go straight for a court order as baby’s mum will never be cooperative, will only get worse etc etc I’ve had anxiety all morning from the call.

It’s like I’m used to this situation which others see as absolutely crazy but when I realize it’s not normal and it’s really bad it gives me anxiety. This is stressing me out a lot.

I pay towards baby’s mums rent every month and half gas and electric (which I’m not happy about but whatever) and half of baby’s needs e.g nappys milk wipes. I also on my own will buy baby toys and clothes more than what baby needs but just because I want to sondon’t mind that.

Currently my options are:

1. Run away, abandon baby and try to get over it (not going to do that)
2. Wait until baby’s mum is more cooperative and give it more time until she’s ‘comfortable’ with letting baby do overnights/try to talk her into it (been trying for ages it’s not working)
3. Initiate mediation which will go in my favor but scared to ‘take it there’ with baby’s mum as she could become even worse.
4. Go to court. Also scared to do this as mum could just make up lies and once a court order is in place it’s stuck. I have a friend who’s child’s mum lied in court and now he can’t see his kids at all after spending thousands.

I’m leaning towards option 2 but I’m really reaching the brink. I’m under stress constantly and it affects my daily life. I just don’t want any more drama and want to have some peace and be with my child regularly so they could have me and their mum and live a decent life with split parents.

What should I do? Am I being unreasonable? Is she being unreasonable?

Absolutely no need for your personal and aggressive response to this poster’s comments. You should be ashamed of yourself.

Omg I said in the end. That’s how I want things ending up, as in when my child is in school etc

Agree, @Eyeroll, I know of children who adore their dads, and no one can deny that a Dad can be just as close to a child as a mother {I am a mother, but as a toddler was raised by Dad after mum died .
this is Mumsnet, a notoriously man hating site, so @Throwaway388 don't take it personally.

Your ex is controlling and violent towards you, are you and your baby safe? Have you considered taking the baby and going to a refuge?

It seems ike altho you do lots of hands on parenting @Throwaway388 you're basically both together when you look after her, even if she's just downstairs.

The next step is to have her at yours alone.

The following step is to go to one overnight.

The further step is to increase those nights.

All assuming little one is OK.

Right now you need to move to the having her at yours alone. Make she's adjusted to that. Because that's what's best for your child.

In 6 months once that's established, you can start to look at overnights.

Because its how it's how it's always been, you're used to your child's not being there overnight, to not be within reach if she needs you. Your ex is not. You don't have to care about your ex, but the reality is she also needs to learn to adjust to her daughter not being where she has any control over her. If you can't respect that on the basis of you caring about HER, respect it on the basis that it's better for your daughter that you're relationship is respectful.

Of course if she's abusive you're better off not being around her, and you're entitled to take legal action.

You’re a man, you’ll rarely get a sympathetic response on this site. There are situations like this happening every day, Mothers calling all the shots. Google the charity Dad’s Unlimited, they can offer support and guidance on positive co-parenting for separated parents.

I second this 100%.

Good luck.

I hate when I see mothers trying to punish fathers by withholding a child's love or fathers love from a child.

I was in the opposite position where I was begging ds father to be involved. He wasn't and he's missed such a great kid growing up who is now an adult. The thought of a parent who wants to be there missing out on that breaks my heart.

And I don't think 15 months is too young. Many parents leave children overnight much younger than that with family to go out or away for the weekend.

Goodness me, why would you get involved? I am sure Judge can respond for himself. I am tired of men downgrading mothers to mere vehicles to produce babies when motherhood is so much more than that in every conceivable way.

There is always this undercurrent of diminishment and indeed jealousy aimed at the mother in both her ability to create and sustain life and the deep bonds that flow mother and child.

Mothers are creators and primary carers certainly for the first few years
Fathers for a while have to be supporters and take the back seat. Some are more comfortable with that role than others.
That is life.

I was so shocked at your comments I had to say something. No one is diminishing anything. I don’t know if you are projecting from your own life experience. I may have missed it but has Judge said they are a man? I don’t know of any man who diminishes a mother’s role as you describe. That’s of course only my experience but you have indulged yourself there in sweeping generalisations.

Because he isn’t afraid of her? Because he’s already diffused the volatile relationship situation by moving out? Because he’s not actually concerned that she’s going to physically hurt him or their child?
If he’s (understandably) unhappy about her messing him around for contact as a way of manipulating him then getting a child arrangement order is the best solution here.
Just because women and more rarely men sometimes need to flee relationships and stay in a refuge because of domestic violence for their own safety it doesn’t mean it’s the best solution for every volatile relationship.
Using women’s refuges as some kind of ´gotcha!’ argument in a situation that doesn’t warrant it and where the OP has given no indication of needing this kind of help is just a shitty thing to say. It doesn’t help OP and is disrespectful to women (and yes, a smaller number of men) who genuinely need a refuge place to leave a relationship safely.

I think overnights often don’t start until kids are 2 or 3+. Having her for the day sounds perfectly fine.

I split with my ExH when my DD was a baby (under a year). He took me to court when she was 18 months old.

Court ordered for overnights once she was 3.

From 18 months to 3 years old he had her 2 afternoons a week after Nursery and for a few hours every Sunday.

The contact switched to 2 afternoons a week and EO Saturday. And even then the overnights where gradully increased.

So it started he had to do bath and bedtime at my house, then a few months later he did bath at his but returned in pyjamas and put to bed at mine. Then she slept overnight but had to be returned in time for breakfast, then in time for lunch. Then eventually he was allowed to return her in time for tea.

They didn't introduce the 2nd overnight until she'd settled at school, so it was a process over 18 months to 2 years, and this was a 3 to 4 year old child.

Even now the court order says if DD asks to come home she's to be returned to me. And she's 7 now.

Don't expect it to go in your favour.

You could make a start by reading the thread properly and not making assumptions! I definitely don't have personal experience, although some professional insight.

I feel for dads that feel sidelined by mothers and of course in time, the ideal scenario is both parents on board equally caring for the child, but the vicious competition to 'claim' the child rather than care about their needs first and foremost is hardly unknown (and can happen to either parent)

I do feel diminished by some men. Some men do not respect women or the concept of mothehood. I felt Judge was being very rude and I was calling it out.

Really? 😂her mother was sat next to me!

The post I responded to clearly tried to make a point of saying just because she birthed a child that means the child only wants her and walked past it’s father.

But I proved that isn’t always true, stop it really it isn’t a competition.

So in your first post you say the mother is violent to you and that this is in front of the baby. This baby is a victim of domestic abuse (and so are you). This is unexceptable. If it was a lady posting this about a man behaving in this way the responses would be very very different.
So your ex partner is abusing your child, you have a much bigger issue than you care to believe. Even at this very young age your child is feeling the effects of this and this can not be ignored.
Personally I would make sure I have evidence of her abuse and see a solicitor. You need to act to protect your child this is the issue. You can not sort this issue out alone.
The courts can not stop you seeing your child with out proof. They may actually help the mother with her anger issues and to become a better mother.

JudgeJ · Today 17:54

But it's not just your baby, it's the father's baby too. The stupid nonsense about 'growing inside me.......' is the usual way mothers try to bully fathers, without whom there would have been no baby to 'grow'.

Someone that describes the conception and birth/motherhood as 'stupid nonsense' is extremely rude and diminishing.

@Martialisthebestpup The thread was already several pages long by the time I got here so I didn't read it all. I saw that she smashes his things, attacks him and he has had to restrain her when he sees his daughter, I didn't think it was outrageous that he and his baby might be in danger from a violent, volatile woman. Domestic violence happens to men more often than people wish to believe. What would you tell a woman who had written that OP? There are men's refuges you know, there's one in my town.

Not sure what assumptions I’ve made. Call out whatever you like but you don’t know whether that poster is even a man or a woman as far as I can tell. Happy to be corrected on that.
Some men just don’t respect women, I don’t really see why you take their views on motherhood to be the gospel truth about how most men feel about it. Certainly not in line with my experience throughout life.

God this thread makes me despair. Do we want to be fucking equal with men or not? Because if so we need to stop feeding into this myth that early child rearing is something only women can do competently.

OP, I would have been bleeding in my heart had I been regularly separated from my babies at 15m.

But have to say that they would have been fine with their Dad, and Dads are just as capable of providing the security that 15m olds need.

What is your living situation? Do you have your own accommodation with space for cot etc?

I think I would be saying to the mother that it might be easier all round if you have a firm settled agreement and arrangement so that she knows what support she is getting, and do
mediation? Leading to a legal agreement for financial support and access / co-parenting.

Exactly! My thoughts as well, and that is before we even start with the biology between a mother and baby and how it works for months and years after birth.

I couldn't care any less about people like Judge and their views, but I will not have anyone talk about it as 'stupid nonsense' for most women it is the most seismic event of their lives - creating a new life is huge.
I won't have women being degraded in that way. I can only assume he is a man, as I have never heard of a woman speak about it in that way. Only haters.