Mother of child won’t let me have my daughter overnight. Is she being unreasonable?

[Throwaway388]

Me and ex have a 15 month old baby together.

Me and ex split before we even knew she was pregnant. When I found out, and knew she would not get an abortion. I stayed with her during the pregnancy but we did not get back together. I supported her in all ways for the sake of the baby atleast.

I always loved my child and a bond was instant from when baby was born so don’t have the issue (or blessing in some cases) of not caring about/wanting baby.

Baby’s mum is the reason we argue as she is very spiteful that im not with her and set on making my life hard and asserting dominance and control anywhere she can. I have been doing everything on her terms for the last 15 months.

I have been going to her house just to be around my child and staying there overnight. We naively agreed that I would stick around until she feels baby is ‘old enough’ to coparent. We argue very frequently and this often ends up in her becoming violent (breaking my things, hitting me sometimes and I’ve had to defend myself before through restraining) and kicking me out the house in front of child.

Lately I have noticed my child hates it when we argue and starts moaning, so last week I decided it was the last straw after the usual argue/get kicked out/can’t see baby for over a week cycle.

I want my life back and want to be able to move on with my child properly without having to be around her.

She has agreed to let me have my baby 2 days a week during the day and drop baby off before dinner time. I want baby to stay overnight with me but mum is insistent it’s too early and that one day she will be ready to do it, but currently she is not comfortable with letting baby stay anywhere (implying I am on the same level as her sisters)

She has no problem leaving baby with me from morning til night where I do the bedtime routine etc while mum is out for friends bdays/parties/clubbing but has a problem with me doing this at my own house.

She doesn’t understand that I’m the child’s dad and have rights?

So I have spoke to mediators who put me in touch with a lawyer for ‘advice’. The lawyer called me this morning and tried to scare me into buying an hour consultation with them saying the only solution is to go straight for a court order as baby’s mum will never be cooperative, will only get worse etc etc I’ve had anxiety all morning from the call.

It’s like I’m used to this situation which others see as absolutely crazy but when I realize it’s not normal and it’s really bad it gives me anxiety. This is stressing me out a lot.

I pay towards baby’s mums rent every month and half gas and electric (which I’m not happy about but whatever) and half of baby’s needs e.g nappys milk wipes. I also on my own will buy baby toys and clothes more than what baby needs but just because I want to sondon’t mind that.

Currently my options are:

1. Run away, abandon baby and try to get over it (not going to do that)
2. Wait until baby’s mum is more cooperative and give it more time until she’s ‘comfortable’ with letting baby do overnights/try to talk her into it (been trying for ages it’s not working)
3. Initiate mediation which will go in my favor but scared to ‘take it there’ with baby’s mum as she could become even worse.
4. Go to court. Also scared to do this as mum could just make up lies and once a court order is in place it’s stuck. I have a friend who’s child’s mum lied in court and now he can’t see his kids at all after spending thousands.

I’m leaning towards option 2 but I’m really reaching the brink. I’m under stress constantly and it affects my daily life. I just don’t want any more drama and want to have some peace and be with my child regularly so they could have me and their mum and live a decent life with split parents.

What should I do? Am I being unreasonable? Is she being unreasonable?

Yes I agree with you. You are the babies father and at 15 months I think the baby is old enough to stay with you overnight. Certainly grand parents look after babies much younger so this argument really doesn’t stand anymore.

it will not get better. I’m sorry but I would get legal advice.

are you paying the correct child maintenance? I would certainly ensure that is the case and at this stage assume nil over nights. The money is for the baby it’s not contributing towards rent or energy bills.

If you are reliably turning up at agreed times, looking after DD to a high level, paying what you have agreed and doing so on time without complaint, I think it's very unlikely that any court or mediator is going to assume that you're the one in the wrong.

Right now, seeing your DD a lot - how is that organised? Do you just ask if you can come over and ex agrees or disagrees or do you always come on certain days? At this point, even if you don't do overnights, I'd be suggesting that you have your DD away from ex's house - get into the habit of it being your day and you are in charge and working on what happens on those days.

Why haven't you seen her since last week? Do you have texts or emails where you've asked your ex to let you come but she's said no because of the argument? That's another way you can prove that you want to be there.

I would also add the toddler stage is very clingy, they really need to feel settled and at home and having a secure base/attachment is extremely important to their development, especially at night.

Shunting babies and toddlers around for 2 nights every single week is likely to cause distress and feelings of loss and abandonment. I am sure the op wants the best for his child, so putting her through that twice a week is very far from ideal. She is too young and she is at a key stage. I understand his reasons for moving out, but the child's well being is/should be the first consideration.

Yes of course there will be others with babies moved from one house to another day in and day out but it is not the norm and not ideal, even from birth the toddler can develop a preference and resist leaving their main carer and become highly distressed - it can cause longer term attachment issues.

It's about what's best for the child, not what you want

@sjxoxo

'I think it’s too soon aswell - she’s too young imo. I think you’re underestimating what it’s like to birth a baby and then spend a night apart from them when they are still a baby… feels like you’ve cut off your leg and left it somewhere. I wouldn’t let my baby stay overnight under the age of probably 2/3 x'.

You need to re read what you have said and image this being done to you. It doesn't matter... he's the baby's father and he loves her. Parenting should be equal. Trust me I was taken to family court by my ds's father and if they each have PR 9parental responsibility), he does not have to prove himself. He has equal rights.

@PennyRa

'It's about what's best for the child, not what you want'.

It's not just about what the mother wants either!

One night out is very different to a fixed twice a week arrangement.

No one has 'rights' it is only the child's rights that are considered by the courts.

You are making critical mistake by allowing her to abuse and exploit you behind your child. What rent money, what gas, money? Don't negotiate with terrorist. See the baby during day time. At your daughter age is very unlikely any court would order significant amount of nights. So save yourself money. When your daughter will get little older trust me, her mother will be messaging u especially on weekends so u can take care of your child,so that the mother can go and.....( Have fun) . Don't worry it's coming, right now pay what u have to, see your daughter during day time and don't stress. Everything will clarify itself with time. I was like you once. Upset about ex playing games etc. Now my son is 8yo ,lives with me from the age of 5yo.
My ex was spiteful, nasty etc. The moment child got older she realised that she needs me to babysit for free especially nights. Little did she know this babysitter ( me) is going to turn into primary carer. Today she asks me when, what time and "if she can take my son. Good luck my friend, forget about courts right now.

I think a lot of people are just giving their feelings in regards to leaving their babies etc, just to try and give OP an insight of what it may feel like for the mother..

However, I don't feel like we're getting the full picture, I've said this a number of times.

Go down the court route.

As I said earlier, you said you'd rather go with 'option' 2, others have suggested you do, yet you seem in some responses to get quite pissed off about this. So I would just suggest you go down the court route.

I’d take what she’s suggesting and see how it pans out
I would be very surprised if a family court gave you overnights at 15 months of age.
most people on here saying their children went to the other parents at that age will likely have agreed it themselves.

And paying more money than the CMS calculate doesn’t change that

Am I the only one who thinks a father has every right to look after his baby especially over night? It takes two to tango and equal rights is what everyone fights for in this day and age? If the father is capable of looking after his own child, then I don't see the problem

@Throwaway388

If you wait for your ex to become more co-operative you might be waiting forever. You need to start as you mean to go on contact wise and overnight and the mother needs to accept it!
I spent 2 years going through the family courts with my ds's father and I learnt so much.

It wouldn't hurt you to go and see a family solicitor for a free 1/2 hour for advice. I'm not saying to go to Court, but at least you will know where you stand legally and hopefully you stop getting messed around by your ex by her holding your own daughter up like a pawn.

Quite simply, you either discuss and reach a mutually agreeable contact arrangement between yourselves (seems unlikely here) or you progress the legal route of mediation then court for a CAO (or you back right off and let your ex make all the parenting decisions for ever more).

You seem to be aware of what's involved so I'm not really sure what more you expect to gain from this thread?

Of course men are just as capable of parenting a baby (breastfeeding aside, which isn't involved in the OP's case anyway). 15 months is hardly newborn anyway. I did at least half with my kids when they were babies. We separated when my youngest was 18 months, and then did shared care with absolutely no issues at all. Now they live with me full time, and they're all thriving.

Oh god the men in capes are here 🙄

@Peckhaminn

'Am I the only one who thinks a father has every right to look after his baby especially over night? It takes two to tango and equal rights is what everyone fights for in this day and age? If the father is capable of looking after his own child, then I don't see the problem'.

No you're not! It really angers me that women think they can hold a child to ransom against its father! Especially when he clearly cares!

i love the way the op is being abused and hit but its ok because the baby needs mum

what a fucked up reason-i think you shold go to mediation at least to see what happens-she can sign something toagree to certain days not just when she feels like it and if she doesnt then take it to court for a set order

This is not a breast fed child and so there is zero reason why they cannot do 50/50. The sexism on this post is outstanding.

Go to court, represent yourself. read as much info on the internet about how to do this. Stop paying half her bills and set yourself up somewhere so that your daughter can come to you. You will have a huge battle ahead but don't abandon your daughter. You have as much right to see her as the mother does. Utter, utter bollocks to say you don't.

You should definitely have your baby overnight! You sound a lovely person and you should be allowed the access to your baby on equal terms, especially as you are supporting the mum and baby! I agree with you, why is baby too young to spend regular time with dad? I hope you find a way to sort the issue.

You DD's mum has acted unreasonably about many things, but delaying overnights isn't one of them. I think your (understandable) general frustration about the situation as a whole is clouding your judgement on this point.

With babies, dad's are general on the back foot in terms of bonding, your DD and her mum spent 9 months as effectively one being, so by they time you met her she was already more bonded to mum. That's not fair and not your fault, but it is biology.

Then from the day she was born your DD already felt safer with mum, so mum's almost alway become the primary carer. Especially when you factor in 2 months of breastfeeding (when mum obviously does the majority) and all the time you were working in the background while mum was on maternity so could focus more on baby (again not your fault).

You also haven't lived with your DD for 6 months, so you been around isn't her current status quo, and although not your fault, you frequently don't see her for a week plus at a time. I know that's because the mother is preventing it, but your DD doesn't, so even though it's not your choice, it is what DD's use to.

Any changes to the current setup need to be gradual, because that is what's best for DD, no matter how unfair it feels. I'd recommend accepting the two days, but getting it written into a legal agreement, with plans to increase to overnights once DD is older. Consistently is what is important here, so I'd prioritise ensuring you have the time agreed.

I don't think 15 months is too young. I separated from my DC dad when my youngest was about 18 months and he started having overnights fairly soon after. He is an equal parent. My children love being with their dad and he is just as capable as I am. The fact that I grew them and birthed them is irrelevant- it's not about how I feel, it's about what's best for them and having solid, independent relationships with their dad is best. I would say less than 6 months is too young due to fourth trimester etc but (breastfeeding apart) a competent loving dad should have a decent level of contact.

You sound like a lovely loving father! The issue here is primary caregiver. Also if you guys are not on the same page you will cause a plethora of issues to your child’s MH. other than that - baby is bottle fed, sleeps through the night etc… presumably you can take your child back to their mom if they are too distressed I actually think it will be more helpful to be part of their life and routine from get go. My friend went straight to court in a similar situation and it took him a while to get there but he’s now allowed to take his child every other week, on holidays and etc. mum actually now prefers to palm the kid off due to new relationship 🤷🏻‍♀️ and it made the transition easier for everyone.

I'm sorry but please don't refer to yourself as a babysitter/that you were babysitting. You're the child's dad, referring to yourself as being a babysitter just makes yourself look shitter/less of a parent.

You were being a parent to your child < corrected it for you

I don't know the circumstances, you haven't said, how you became the primary carer when your son was just five years old.

However, you do seem to be crowing about it, despite knowing how damaging it is for your son not to be with his mother at least half of the time.

Children that have been separated from their mothers for long periods of time have in research shown to develop extensive mental health and personality disorders, are more at risk of suicide, are more likely to appear in court/go to prison, take drugs and need some long term professional intervention.

I don't think it is anything to be celebrated that your son's mother has to beg to see her own son, and can't see how you can perceive this arrangement as anything other than extremely negative for your child. It is not a competition, and some day there might be a great deal of regret about the choices being made now.

I feel desperately sorry for some of the children on this thread. No one is really thinking about them, it is a game of oneupmanship.

Forget about asking for nights and maybe ask for extra daytime hours instead ?