Mother of child won’t let me have my daughter overnight. Is she being unreasonable?

[Throwaway388]

Me and ex have a 15 month old baby together.

Me and ex split before we even knew she was pregnant. When I found out, and knew she would not get an abortion. I stayed with her during the pregnancy but we did not get back together. I supported her in all ways for the sake of the baby atleast.

I always loved my child and a bond was instant from when baby was born so don’t have the issue (or blessing in some cases) of not caring about/wanting baby.

Baby’s mum is the reason we argue as she is very spiteful that im not with her and set on making my life hard and asserting dominance and control anywhere she can. I have been doing everything on her terms for the last 15 months.

I have been going to her house just to be around my child and staying there overnight. We naively agreed that I would stick around until she feels baby is ‘old enough’ to coparent. We argue very frequently and this often ends up in her becoming violent (breaking my things, hitting me sometimes and I’ve had to defend myself before through restraining) and kicking me out the house in front of child.

Lately I have noticed my child hates it when we argue and starts moaning, so last week I decided it was the last straw after the usual argue/get kicked out/can’t see baby for over a week cycle.

I want my life back and want to be able to move on with my child properly without having to be around her.

She has agreed to let me have my baby 2 days a week during the day and drop baby off before dinner time. I want baby to stay overnight with me but mum is insistent it’s too early and that one day she will be ready to do it, but currently she is not comfortable with letting baby stay anywhere (implying I am on the same level as her sisters)

She has no problem leaving baby with me from morning til night where I do the bedtime routine etc while mum is out for friends bdays/parties/clubbing but has a problem with me doing this at my own house.

She doesn’t understand that I’m the child’s dad and have rights?

So I have spoke to mediators who put me in touch with a lawyer for ‘advice’. The lawyer called me this morning and tried to scare me into buying an hour consultation with them saying the only solution is to go straight for a court order as baby’s mum will never be cooperative, will only get worse etc etc I’ve had anxiety all morning from the call.

It’s like I’m used to this situation which others see as absolutely crazy but when I realize it’s not normal and it’s really bad it gives me anxiety. This is stressing me out a lot.

I pay towards baby’s mums rent every month and half gas and electric (which I’m not happy about but whatever) and half of baby’s needs e.g nappys milk wipes. I also on my own will buy baby toys and clothes more than what baby needs but just because I want to sondon’t mind that.

Currently my options are:

1. Run away, abandon baby and try to get over it (not going to do that)
2. Wait until baby’s mum is more cooperative and give it more time until she’s ‘comfortable’ with letting baby do overnights/try to talk her into it (been trying for ages it’s not working)
3. Initiate mediation which will go in my favor but scared to ‘take it there’ with baby’s mum as she could become even worse.
4. Go to court. Also scared to do this as mum could just make up lies and once a court order is in place it’s stuck. I have a friend who’s child’s mum lied in court and now he can’t see his kids at all after spending thousands.

I’m leaning towards option 2 but I’m really reaching the brink. I’m under stress constantly and it affects my daily life. I just don’t want any more drama and want to have some peace and be with my child regularly so they could have me and their mum and live a decent life with split parents.

What should I do? Am I being unreasonable? Is she being unreasonable?

Why was you taken to court if you don’t mind me asking, and what made you change your perspective?

But it's not just your baby, it's the father's baby too. The stupid nonsense about 'growing inside me.......' is the usual way mothers try to bully fathers, without whom there would have been no baby to 'grow'.

My 15 month old niece trapped her fingers in a cupboard door last week, the first person she ran to crying was me. Her mum, my sister was sat next to me on the sofa.

I never grew her, gave birth to her, fed her from my body and probably see her less than Op sees his daughter, but we have formed an attachment she knows who I am and that I am a safe person to come to.
Oh and she’s also stays over at my house at least once a month and has done since she was 7 months old.

I don't see it as her putting her child first. I see it as her controlling the OP. The OP is paying way over what he legally needs to and she wants him as a partner still from what OP says. I think it is time to get legal advice, step back from doing anything for the ex and just do things for your child, formalise contact and maintenance now. Absolutely no reason why you shouldn't be granted overnight con
Lawyers will cost money but will cost more the longer your leave it. Bite the bullet and start then process now. The longer you leave it the worse the ex will be.

You’re sounding a bit petulant and whiny and me me me.
think about what’s best for your DC, not for you.
Whats best at this age is one main stable carer (her mum, in this case), with plenty of support (provided by you).
It’s not ideal for you, sure. But it can’t be because you and her mum don’t live together.
Be patient. Put your daughter first. Your relationship with her will develop.

Not had time to read the full thread but given the timing and history, and apologies if someone else has already mentioned this, one of the things that struck me was that your relationship had ended before she found out she was pregnant. Have you considered doing a paternity test?

I wouldn't for a millisecond expect someone like you to understand the transcendental and all encompassing love and bond between a mother and her child judge. For people like you parenting is transactional.

I agree that the mother and baby connection is way beyond anything you ever experience in your life, so I don't really expect you to and perhaps it is unreasonable to even imagine you might try, but you could at least have some respect for the biology and sharing the same body and life blood for so long. It is the most incredible bond of any other, and like or not it was designed exactly that way.

He said earlier he's done one and he's the dad x

That's just not true. Or rather it's only true due to tradition making the mother the natural primary carer. If they're done a reasonable split of the parenting from birth then there's absolutely no reason why the child can't have time away from it's mother now.

A friend of mine's wife died in childbrith (due to clinical negligence). So he raised his dd totally solo from birth. And guess what? She's grown up into an amazing person. No woman could have done a better job (obviously two parents working in co operation is always going to be best). Even if nature created mothers as better nurturers and fathers as better providers (hunter gatherer), it's absolutely possible for either to fulfil the other role.

I'm married with 3 kids so have no experience with separating etc, but what I will say is my husband wouldn't put up with the level of contact you are putting up with. I still breastfeed a 20 month old and yes he's clingy for me, but that's because he breastfeeds. I have had to go away with work and he's completely fine with my husband as he's his parent too and he has an attachment to his dad. 15 months isn't an exclusively breastfed baby, your ex gf doesn't even breastfeed so I can't see why you can't have 1 night a week. She sounds like hard work, I'd probably just go to court and get something official put into place, I don't think seeing your child with her present is a good idea, I wouldn't want my child being exposed to her awful behaviour. It'd be much better if you can establish a relationship with your child away from her and her terrible behaviour.

Maybe you were the first one she saw?

Just out of curiosity & confusion

So you lived with them for the first year, yes?

What was your role, like day to day etc, how hands on were you/how hands off was she

Just so we can get a better idea of the dynamics

Thanks for the clarification and saving me oodles of reading @yorkshirepudsx 😀

In the end. The ideal situation is for my child to be happy. To be close to her mum and dad. To have two homes. I don’t mind splitting the week 60/40 so 4 nights with mum 3 nights with me. I want me and her mum to get along and be cordial. I want us to live close enough so school journeys are 30 mins max (currently one hour away but I’m still up and down constantly). I want my child to have a good life and be set up to succeed as an adult, to know what to look for in a man and believe only her father can show her that. I don’t want her feeling abandoned by me, or being taught to hate me or growing up with daddy issues etc it seems simple and hopefully one day I can think back to these times and laugh at them but unfortunately, it isn’t just down to me.

You need to go and read some books on early child development and attachment theory.

Babies need consistency of routine.

It's not in a very young infants best interest to be sleeping in different beds.

Daytime contact is what is best for the child until they are 2/3.

You also need to be putting the child first in relation to how you interact with mum. You should be paying maintenance as you are a non resident parent. It's none of your business what she spends this on. You should also be offering to pay for half of the childcare costs (or provide childcare yourself).

You sound like you are using your dc as a tool to punish your ex for not having an abortion.

Some of the things you say are quite concerning.

Because she carried the child and is the primary care giver. the child isn’t talking and can’t voice upset or concern when out of her care.

A child is not a toy that you demand to share.

Its not pass the parcel.
I used to favour 50/50 parenting but seeing my brother and his ex have a week on and a week off alternating for two girls from the ages of 6 onwards - it damaged them massively despite mum and dad being good parents. It’s a new bedroom each week - different rules etc

think about your child - what would she like?

a one off sleepover is totally not 2 days a week,

Mum doesn’t agree you need to talk to her about reason but constantly referring to her as spiteful is not nice.

you got pregnant take some responsibility. Don’t blame her for not having an abortion!

How do you actually know this? Of course from the outside it must look fine, but you can't see how that person feels to be entirely motherless, you have no idea how much therapy and support they have had, nor the nightmares in the middle of the night, attachment issues, relationship problems.

I hate to say it, but no matter how good a job someone does at parenting, losing your mother at such a young age will be devastating.
I know in this situation everyone rushes to congratulate the lone parent on their achievements and progress, and offer support as they should, but I am yet to meet a young person that lost a parent that is 'perfectly well adjusted' I would be very wary at taking that at face value. It takes years, sometimes a life time to come to terms with a loss of a parent (as Harry is showing us now)

I’ve responded too many trolls/nut cases on here so won’t answer your message. I’ll just say learn to read ✌🏼

I think initially thought ypu should have more access and overnights. But 3 nights for a baby in one house and 4 in another is crazy to me. She needs a firm base in my opinion. Also didn't realise you were an hour away which changes things again I think. Why rush things? What's the difference from your baby's point of view from 2 full days with dad to 2 full days and 3 nights? The main difference to your baby is that she will likely miss her main care giver and her home. After all its all about what's best for baby. 2 full days still gives her quality time with her dad. What's the rush? Why not slowly build up and allow her to get a little older first.

@Throwaway388 You do sound like a very responsible dad and I too agree that you should not ever be exposed to violence or abuse by the child's mother.
Court probably does seem to be the best option.
Why are you paying for so much!?

If you want your child to associate happiness and being in your company and enjoying her time with you, I suggest you don't take her away at night at this age, when she is likely to become very distressed and she will start to associate seeing you equates to losing her mother at night. Once hard wired, she will see your home, face, life as something hostile and will be extremely unsettled and unhappy.

If you take things slowly, and build up carefully and gently, with her needs at the heart of every decision she makes she will adjust in time and the transition will be far better for all of you. Trust is precious and once gone with children, it is extremely hard to win back. Good luck

Didn’t take that long for you to fall down that rabbit hole really did it?
it really is all about you.

OP you sound toxic. Constantly referring to 'my child'... and then to say you're wanting equal parenting, I'm calling nonsense. You'd be saying 'our child' if that were true. I'm getting impressions of those blokes who see kids as an extension of themselves...unable to understand a child is a person in their own right. I can see why your ex is twitchy. I think she has good reason to be.

I agree with this too. If I were you I would go with the extended days for now. If the mum isn't prepared to have overnights when your child is, say, three years old, you may have to go to Court. You don't need to pay a solicitor either. It's quite straightforward to apply for what is called a "Child Arrangements Order". Neither you or the mother would be likely to benefit from legal aid unless one of you is the victim of domestic abuse by the other.

The best thing for your child will be to see both parents being amicable, relaxed and agreeable.

So before she started sleeping through the night which was pretty early at around 4-5 months, maybe waking up once. We used to take night feeds in goes. When I stayed there we would take night routines in goes so bath and bed, the other would make the bottle and chill downstairs til the other comes down. Bottles/nappies/breakfast lunch all in goes. When I started going there less I would do nearly everything as I would be spending my time there with baby. If we’re working and one has meetings etc the other would look after baby. Pretty equal but overall she has always done more but I’m there less. Luckily my baby has been really easy going so she’s not a handful to deal with, just likes to stay entertained.