Is My Brothers GF a Creep or Am I a B???

[mombee99]

My (37F) bother (39M) has a live-in GF (42) who moved across the country to be with him 3 years ago. She basically gave up her last chance to have kids when she did this as my brother's never wanted kids and I know it's been really hard for her.

Since the first time she met me, she's been talking about how much she wants to spend time and get close to my boys (5 & 12). Since she's arrived, she would often invite my kids to spend time with her/them...I know this is all her and nothing to do with my brother as he's not a kids person. Usually I'd make an excuse and that would be that.

She's not a bad person but she is someone I don't fully trust to understand or respect boundaries - just a combination over time of her not seeming to understand social norms and boundaries especially around my kids. She asks overly serious and personal questions about me and my children at times that I find intrusive and rude. That she assumes as my bother's GF she automatically has a relationship with my children really rubs me the wrong way.

My kids have been through a tough divorce and there are ongoing custody issues currently so I'm not even sure if I want them getting "close" to someone who isn't even legally family. I don't know that it's fair to them, if she weren't to stay in the picture long term (which is my suspicion). At this point, they have no strong bond or connection with her (she's not even especially fun around them tbh - she's fairly serious even towards kids).

For context, they do have grandparents and other aunts/uncles who spend lots of time with them and spoil them ...so it's not as if they don't have family.

For awhile she stopped asking so much and I relaxed. A couple months ago though she told me she's been protecting her heart by not seeing them - as it's a reminder she doesn't have her own kids...but that she's decided she doesn't want to live like that and now wants to make my kids a "priority".

I was as blunt as I \thought\ I needed to be and texted "my priority is for my children to spend time with their family if they're going to be socializing with anyone" - to my surprise, she didn't understand at all. She kept texting back "What do you mean by family? Like group hang outs with everyone? What do you mean "family"?" etc...I didn't even know what to say at that point and largely ignored.

Then at Christmas, she wanted them to come for a sleepover on the 23rd...I was incredulous and said so she wants them to sleep over Christmas Eve Eve?? The one Christmas holiday weekend I have off from work to celebrate with my kids?? She texted back okay and to let her know if things change and "it can work".

Then tonight she texted that going forward "she'd love to be closer to the boys and have sleepovers every few months".

Would I be out of line if I told her that I don't feel comfortable having my boys getting "close" to someone not legally in the family? (Although to be honest, I wouldn't be comfortable even if she were legal family).

Otherwise - what should I do or say???

It sounds as if she's not dealing well with the reality of not having her own children. This was effectively her own choice - choosing a relationship with your brother over having kids, although of course no-one can know whether she would have conceived if she had chosen that option.

But your kids can't be her proxy children - they have a difficult family situation of their own to navigate at the moment, without someone they don't know trying to insert herself into their lives. She's overstepped boundaries in your house, and continues to be pushy. I also can't really see what your kids would get out of spending more time with her, it feels very one-sided. Why does she want sleepovers?? Why does she want to spend time with them and without you? That just feels weird.

I'd maybe reply that the kids don't do sleepovers but she's welcome to join you on a family day out (maybe suggest something e.g. zoo).

The other issue is whether she's part of your family. This seems to boil down to not being sure if your brother is that serious about her. (I hope so, given she's sacrificed having children for him!). How close are you to your brother, can you talk to him about this?

I don’t know why you’re dancing around the point. Just be direct and pull the plaster off, or tell your brother his gf is creeping you out and you’re not comfortable with the propositions of your children staying over all the time.

It is bloody and weird that she keeps asking. Offering to provide care in times of
need is one thing; suggesting that they send Christmas nights with her is overstepping. I have nieces and nephews and DC’s. I have never suggested they sleep at mine over their parents... why would I? It’s creepy. Kids want to sleep over with their cousins or friends, or at most their grandparents (if close) not their aunt.

she’s offering the sleepovers for her.. not for them. Maybe that’s the angle you need to take. It’s not in their best interests. She should also seek some counselling for her decisions to not have children in life as it’s clearly impacting her actions.

But seriously, stop dancing in the point and just say ‘stop asking it’s not going to happen’. This whole ‘our culture makes us less direct’ is rubbish. This is meant in the best way possible me but find your backbone and standup for what you clearly sense is something that’s off. Is not your kid’s purpose to fill a gap that she chose to accept.

Also she was 39 when she met your brother.. it wasn’t just your brother who is a part of her childless equation. What I’m saying is your family (you) don’t owe her because your brother didn’t want kids.

She’s made other life choices along the way or it’s not been possible. The majority of people don’t get to 39 and then think about kids.

She sounds like a nice person who doesn't naturally understand social norms or boundaries. I don't think it's kind to think of her as a creep. Personally I'd allow her a relationship with my sons (why not?) but establish firm bounaries and communicate these explicitly as it sounds like she isn't capable of understanding subtly. She doesn't have to have sleepovers if you're not comfortable with that (understandably) but why not invite her to family days out every so often? Is there any way she could be genuinely helpful in a way which wouldn't make you uncomfortable? Could she perhaps take the kids to an activity for you?

YANBU, are your boys even that bothered? Mine wouldn’t particularly want to spend time with the likes of her.

Trust your instincts on this one. If you don’t want her having your kids over for a sleepover: then don’t allow it

Yes it could also be that? Often the women are the ones who facilitate family relationships with people (particularly mother in laws) as their partners aren't bothered.

She's going about it the wrong way but then she doesn't have much experience to know it's over stepping. A trip to the cinema or football or whatever WITH UNCLE INCLUDED would be more appropriate.

If this was a guy, everyone would be screaming safeguarding and insisting your child is not left alone around him.

While I get that there is less risk with a woman, I’m not sure all of those principles should be thrown out of the window. This is particular persistent for someone who isn’t “good” or a natural with children. Particularly given that the children are vulnerable coming out of a divorce.

If she wants to know what you mean by family, say people that the kids have known their own life and put a stop to it. Don’t leave your kids with someone who doesn’t respect boundaries.

You should listen to your gut. It's very odd that she would think you would be fine with your children not being with you on Christmas Morning. It's as if you are not a person and their actual mother, you are simply an inconvenience in her dreams of becoming a mother of your children.

I would say no each and every time to them staying over until she gets over her fantasy. You don't need to explain why or justify yourself. Don't get drawn in.

Completely your call over sleep overs etc, but I think the reason you gave her (that she’s not family) is unnecessarily hurtful.

I was willing to give her the benefit of the doubt as well-meaning but pushy, until you said she ignored your wishes that your mum put the boys to bed when you needed emergency childcare. That would bother me, especially as she said she wasn't well. Not from a sinister perspective, but for overstepping your clear-set boundaries as their mother. My DD would get anxious about bedtimes and only wanted me or her dad or my mum to be there, so I get where you're coming from.

You need to have a conversation with your DB that sleepovers with your sons aren't going to happen, because they don't know him or his GF well enough and your youngest gets anxious. If HE comes back and says why don't the both of us spend time taking them to activities like the cinema etc to improve our relationship, then maybe you could concede that as a workable starting point, because she IS his partner and they are family. But if your brother isn't fussed, that's your get-out going forward - why facilitate anything if their uncle isn't on board too?

Even if she was their bio-aunt this would be weird. I don’t blame you for wanting some distance.

Don’t explain the ´not really part of the family thing’ in terms of being married to your brother or not. Do it in terms of what proportion of your children’s lives and your life she has actively been a part of.
So for the 12 year old. She didn’t exist until he was 9, and then she started to be a face at family gatherings. She babysat him once. This is not a strong, long lasting family bond for him.
For the 5 year old. She has been around for a bigger proportion of his life, but again, she’s met him at gamily gatherings and babysat him once. She just isn’t on the list of close family relationships for him either.
Now you. You’ve known her for 3 years, via family gatherings every 2 months or so. So the same small number of hours interaction as your children. She babysat for you once and ignored all your instructions and actions turned the children’s grandmother away at the door. So you don’t know her that well, and the one time you put more trust in her, she blew it big time by ignoring your wishes.
Often the family members we trust with our kids are people we have known far longer than the kids have been around. Part of the reason I trust my MIL and SIL to look after my kids is the way they have treated me and helped me in the years before my children were born.

OP referred to the 23rd as Christmas Eve Eve.

Sleepovers are a bit odd.

but you don’t have to be a blood relation for someone to be influential to your children and for such relationships to grow they need nurturing. If you don’t trust your brothers partner/ like her then I think you need to own that that is the reason for the decision making.

Drop the stuff about her disappearing. A child focused adult with an independent relationship wouldn’t hurt them if their circumstances change.

I’m a “not-an” Aunt. I don’t have kids of my own. I’ve been lucky that various friends have given me and their children space to develop a relationship. Most of the kids are now teens and it’s mutually enriching. I see them with their parents - dinners, days out etc but I also see the kids solo. When they were little it was mostly me doing childcare in their home and now I usually take the kids out or meet them for an outing. overnights aren’t really a thing!

between outings etc I send the odd text message/ postcard.

solo time is important to let relationships grow - the kids I didn’t spend time with without parents have a different relationship with me and I see it with my SIL and her nieces. Her siblings never let her see their kids without her and while she adores the children she doesn’t know them in the way I know my “not-a” niece/nephews.

one of my friends commented recently how reassuring she finds it to know that her kids have a sensible adult in their phone she knows they could/would approach for help/advice if they didn’t feel able to speak to their parents. For various reasons I know her kids would speak to me over biological aunt/uncles (in Fact she and I have a bet running about how long it is till I get an “SOS” call from her 16yo about contraception for one of his female friends or to rescue someone who has drunk too much)

Would I be out of line if I told her that I don't feel comfortable having my boys getting "close" to someone not legally in the family? (Although to be honest, I wouldn't be comfortable even if she were legal family).

Why don't you write more honestly? You simply don't like your brother's g/f, & don't want your DC spending time with her. All this blather about family & legal family is just dressing up your dislike in what you feel is a more acceptable cover.

Your excuse won't wash. Do you seriously expect her to believe that your precious boys never spend any time with people they are not related to by blood? What about teachers, club leaders, school friends, your own friends?

There is no need for you to make such a transparent & hurtful excuse. Just tell her you don't feel the boys are ready for sleepovers yet. Or that you're not ready to let them.

At what point will she become family. You’ve said your kids have other aunts and uncles, I assume some of which have become so through marriage.

it’s ok not to like her but I did find your comment about her not being family a little harsh.

She did overstep the mark sending your mum home though.

I do think a frank conversation needs to be had. If her pushing isn’t making you conftoable, you need to spell it out to her and get her to back off.

Why didn't you lead with this? - it would have saved you several paragraphs of irrelevancies. Did you just need to vent, because this is a non-issue: you already know that other parents don't pack their kids off to stay with people they dislike & mistrust.

Just tell her. I’m not comfortable with sleepovers for my children. You don’t need to to get into a massive discussion about it. Just say no clearly and that’s it. If she continues to ask just state clearly I’ve already said no and won’t be changing my mind.

Ah, the additional information is really helpful. It doesn't sound like she's a creep but she could have issues with boundaries and massively over-stepping. What's her own family like? Does she have any? Could she be trying to 'recreate' something she never had?

Could you talk to her in a nice but blunt way and just say 'you've been with my brother 3 years but I do not know you very well and neither do the DC. I'm not comfortable with sleepovers and neither are the DC. I appreciate you asking but it's not something we are going to do'.

She might come back with 'let's try and get to know each other better etc' but just stick to your guns, firmly but kindly. It doesn't have to be rude or unkind, just a simple 'no' and 'here's why'.

You might want to forewarn your brother though!

Well for me she had her chance when she stepped in at the last minute to do childcare but then blew it by sending your mum away.

I guess though she thinks that she was helpful & went above & beyond by sending your mum away so is perhaps struggling to see that there is now a problem.

Maybe also thinks that you would appreciate a night without them?

But it's a case of fine for emergency childcare but otherwise can fuck off?

That's obviously hurtful.

That said, kids aren't toys to be handed over to whoever wants them!

So, I do think you're a bit of a 'bitch' the way you've framed her relationship with your brother, the legal thing and generally minimising their relationship... All a bit uncalled for.

However, she clearly lacks boundaries and from what you've said she is not someone I would trust to look after my children. So for that YANBU.

I can understand from what you’ve said why you don’t feel comfortable with the relationship she’s trying to engineer and find her a bit of a ‘creep’. It is unnerving when people seem to be blind to norms and boundaries and insensitive to the signals you’re giving off.

IMO if she wanted to develop a relationship with your kids the thing to do would be to develop the relationship with all of you together – eg by suggesting/organising days out, inviting you round (you and kids) together, and just generally being in their lives. Sleepovers at hers could happen organically if your kids would fancy staying over and you all were happy with the arrangement.

It feels like she just sees access to your kids as all about her, and the way she’s going about it is a bit like she wants to just ‘hire’ them for the night to fulfil some need she has.

She also massively overstepped boundaries with the babysitting (I guess there have been other examples of not respecting boundaries) and did not show respect for your rules and expressed wishes. This again would make many feel uneasy - it’s difficult to trust that she will act with respect for your boundaries and what you communicate to her rather than prioritising what she wants. It all makes her unpredictable and untrustworthy, no matter if her intentions appear to be fairly innocuous.

If you don’t want your kids staying with her you don’t have to let them. Would you be prepared to spend time with her and your brother so your kids can get to know them/her better (as an alternative suggestion to sleepovers)?