When are we going to stop normalising jet-setting fathers leaving mothers and young babies at home?

[Chickenchopstix]

Or even celebrating it?
Unfortunately, this is the case in the circles I'm surrounded by. A baby comes along, Dad's life continues whilst new mothers are stuck at home exhausted with young babies and a lack of support, or they're having to ask other family members to step in and do Dad's role so they can continue with luxurious social lives.

It happened to me with my children when they were babies and I fell out of love with their father and left him when I felt strong enough. But I've never forgotten how he made me feel. There was a year or so of breastfeeding and teething and sleepless nights, of them just needing their parents and then we could pick up our lives a little. But my DH couldn't do it. He fought for his freedom, for his lads holidays and golfing trips and just said "just because you can't leave them, doesn't mean I can't." I really needed his support and he abandoned me for a social life that he couldn't put on the shelf for a very short time during those crazy, sleep deprived baby years. I never felt the same about him again.

This weekend, two male friends have gone away for a few days- both have young babies at home and the responses on social media are celebratory of their latest escapade. I just find it ridiculous. A breastfeeding mum can't do this and it shouldn't be normalised that Dad's can and leave their wives at home instead of being a team and doing their share.

The baby years don't last forever.

The comments on the post annoy me- all so celebratory and yet if a mother of a young baby took these abroad trips so often, it would be frowned upon. Although let's face it, how do breastfeeding mums even get the opportunity?

@HamBone My DH, OTOH, has always been a kind, nurturing type, I instinctively knew he’d be an involved Dad. I’m less nurturing tbh, I’m the one who’s had to learn to be less selfish!

Thing is you learned to be less selfish, if you were a dad. That expectation may not have been there.

No one has said you should be able to see in to the future. It’s an extreme extrapolation from the actual totally reasonable point which is that in most people’s experience throughout their own lives that those men who aren’t going to be very good fathers more often than not show signs of this before they got married or had children. It is right on a site primarily for women we are allowed to consider why women choose to stay with them. As per my previous post I do think internalised misogyny plays a massive role here in terms of what many women - and I include myself here - put up with.

@hourbyhour101 you explain this much more eloquently than I have. Thank you.

Nobody can predict the future particularly when learning something new like pregnancy or having a baby. We've all had to be clueless at some point, it's just that some of us have been luckier than others.

Yes, Chickenchopstix, it is often a change in circumstances that can prompt the reveal of the hidden characteristics.

in my case, dc1 is disabled. It wasn’t what we planned, and a lot more care was needed than anticipated. It was incredibly stressful. My exH withdrew completely. He wasn’t there for any of the support, discussion, stress, or worry. He wasn’t there when I was pulling 20 hour days - he would go out at 5.30am, and return after midnight - with a very difficult baby.

when dc2 came along, I ended up at an important medical
appt for dc1, 5 weeks post c section, trying to juggle a high needs toddler with a tiny baby whilst feeling shit, and where was he? Just another day at the office for him. Nothing particularly important, but we weren’t important enough for him to help out. Always very much bottom of the list.

and that is a complete about-face from the man he had been before children came along, and actually, the man he apparently is now to the rest of the world. Even the dc have noticed that he can always find time to help other people, but not them or me, can always put himself out, spare no expense, etc for anyone except us. And as I tell them, that’s on him, not us. We are not ‘victims’. I don’t need, or expect special treatment because of how shit a father he is, but it doesn’t change the fact that he is a shit father (and was a shit husband once children came along)

This. Please stop patronising and preaching to other people.

Maybe find a Husband that respects you instead.

The trouble I had was growing up in the late 80s/early 90s, I was taught a lie that I would get equality. In fact, my school were really hot on it.

When it didn't happen in my releationship I assumed it was a blip. I mean, logically, why should I take on more of the domestic load just because I am female? So I expected him one day to see the light.

How wrong I was.

It would have been better to have been taught growing up that you're female so there's a huge risk you won't get equality, so be careful.

And this is what I now teach my daughter.

@hourbyhour101 i hadn’t seen your reply when I posted my most recent post and I didn’t want to not reply. I don’t think you’ve been emotive, that’s been your heart breaking experience and I know from my own family how deep and lasting the pain of stillbirth is.
Respectfully though I would say your experience before the still birth differs substantially from what I am saying with regard to choosing a father for your children. I’ve been in total la la land myself and more than once. I am not immune. But the OP’s original point was that there are men jetting off leaving mothers and babies at home and that this is normalised. It’s not normalised to me and most people here. What most people are saying is that in the course of their lives were men have not been great husbands or fathers most of the time that seemed likely earlier on.

"What most people are saying is that in the course of their lives were men have not been great husbands or fathers most of the time that seemed likely earlier on."

How do you know?
You only have your own experience, so you wouldn't know the likelihood of this at all.

How many women marry men (or vice versa) thinking they'll be faithful who go on to become adulterers? Think about it... your logic is flawed.

@hourbyhour101 as above

SORRY I meant @Eyerollcentral as above ⬆️

We have 3 kids and since the first one was born the longest DH has been away is 2 nights for a wedding. I’ve also had 2 nights away so we’re equal. And our finances are 100% shared. So I’m not saying it doesn’t happen, but it’s not my experience thankfully.

Hi @Chickenchopstix as per my previous posts I am referring to what most of the other people on the thread have said, not the world in general. Though i think that if you did ask the population in general they would also say much the same, as I’d imagine there is quite a spread in terms of the ages, background, etc of those commenting. And yes of course like you I am speaking from my own experience and having been cheated on yes again the signs were there he was a cheater. It’s still not my fault he actually did. There is always risk in life, no endeavour in life no matter how thought is put in to it is risk free. But most of the time it’s not a total shock who turns out to behave like a bit of dick or much worse.

It really annoys me when someone posts about a problem they’ve observed in society and other people reply some variation of “that’s not a thing because I’ve never seen it”.

1. perhaps you’ve never noticed it
2. clearly it DOES happen because the OP has noticed it (and many others posting on this thread!)

and in case it’s not clear already: just because some people live in very equal relationships and don’t have these problems, it is widely accepted that society as a whole is very unequal so can you not accept that it is at least possible that some people suffer equality issues in relationships even if you don’t??

And now I’m going to wait for some moron to reply “but why do they marry these men then”

But the title says normalised behaviour, not this is something I have noticed. Most people think it’s not normalised for fathers to behave the way the OP has described

If anyone has an issue with what there partner is doing than it is between them, people pick the partner they get no one else, I would be very surprised if a person was a saint before having a child with them and then changing immediately when the child was born

Maybe if people took care before having a child to see how they really are they wouldn't have a child with them

OR…. Drum roll….. the guy actually showed his true colour later on or change his attitude once the baby was there.

Absolutely. You can talk about it all you want before, but how he actually behaves when he becomes a parent can be different.

I mean none of us know what the reality of parenting is until we become one. I certainly had no idea what being sleep deprived for years actually felt like. Or that "sleep when the baby sleeps" is a joke for some of us!

The difference is, that mothers don't generally shirk their responsibilities. How many bottle-feeding (for argument's sake) mothers do you know who at 4 months went off for a jolly over a long-week with her mates, leaving baby behind with Dad? Or who expected their OH to be cooking, cleaning and taking care of a baby and toddler, and/or working? While they carried in their lives as though there was no baby?

Not every man behaves like that, for sure, but I only know and know of men who do that.

Same for the parent who walks out on their spouse and children to start a new life with a younger, child-free partner. I have never met or heard of a woman who did that. I personally know a few men who have done that and know of more.

My ex totally did this. Barely even visited us in hospital after the birth. Just carried on like nothing had changed. He's now dumping our child on his next baby mother whilst he goes off partying.

@Eyerollcentral it's ok can we can agree to disagree ( we buck the usual trend of mn) and chat/debate nicely (I have a cold and im well aware im probably coming across v narky - im not just shattered)

I get what your saying I do. I don't think op wants to normalise it but perhaps highlight it does go on. And based on the comments sadly it's not uncommon- or maybe a mixed bag. I don't think anyone wants this to be normal. I certainly don't and I think everyone can agree to that.

I do think just imo it seems more common in the uk. I don't particularly want to out myself but culturally speaking to friends, family seems to have different value to the males in Uk (less valued) For me it's really weird to see it play out. Just my guess perspective as outsider as it were... the first time someone introduced his "ball and chain" as such and didn't use her name was "ahem" interesting learning curve for me 😅 and it would appear for him once I was finished ranting.

@Eyerollcentral Normalised behaviour and behaviour that people don’t notice is often the same thing.

I know a lot of people whose experience is as the OP describes. I’ve read countless threads on MN which talk about this - generally not relating to trips abroad, granted, but definitely about socialising when a mum is left at home immediately after giving birth whilst the dad goes out drinking. Probably the best evidence that this behaviour is normalised is that going out when the baby is tiny and mum is still recovering is actually a known ritual with its own name - wetting the baby’s head. It’s an awful tradition that belongs in the past.

Do you think that women who don't mind this happening to them possibly have their own elderly parents 'filling in' for an absent husband?

Something else I've noticed.

One of my friends whose husband is often out on one of his many escapades has very involved parents who seem to be filling in for her husband. She minds much less than women who don't have the luxury of involved parents. She also doesn't "get it" when women do mind because I don't think she can really imagine what it's like to actually be left doing everything alone. She even stays at her parents house whenever he's away and her Mum does the night feeds and cooks for her etc so it's actually a benefit for her when he's away.

@Chickenchopstix are you my friend?!

@Chickenchopstix Do you think that women who don't mind this happening to them possibly have their own elderly parents 'filling in' for an absent husband?

My ex wasn't as bad as some and I know I haven't painted my ex ML in great light re her comment BUT MY GOD she was and remains a fucking angel for all the help she does with my Dd.

I still consider her my ML even given everything. I think she loves my Dd equal to me and that for me is everything.

My friend has a DH who if ever left with children who dispatched to his mother for him to look after the kids and her cook food for him 😒

@hourbyhour101 lol!! I had a similar experience myself with my boss calling his wife ‘wifey’!
I think you are correct that it’s the expectation of what family life is for men in the UK. I am Irish and I live in Ireland now but I spent 10 years in England and also lived further abroad. There’s plenty of useless fathers here but too but I think in general society is much more family centred, for good and bad. I also think that’s it more likely especially in England for people to live further from their immediate family and as a result many more men don’t deal with young children until they have one themselves. I am a walking stereotype in that i am from a large family with a lot of brothers and sisters and have nieces and nephews from babies to 30 year olds, as well as great nieces (I am only 40 not 120!). I was always surrounded by babies throughout my life and so were all my brothers. I would say many of my friends are from a similar background. The majority of our mothers I would say were expected to do everything and whilst there is a major major problem with (my buzzwords of the night!) internalised misogyny, they now expect their sons to be hands on fathers. My mother would have slapped the face of any of my brothers who dreamed of behaving the way the OP has described and I would have had no compunction in reading them the riot act myself.

We’ve never lived close to our parents since having children, but I think personality type has a lot to do with it as well-I’ve always enjoyed a break from my DH, even when they were tiny, and I still do. 😂.

He flaps around when I’m away though!

@Eyerollcentral 😵‍💫😵‍💫😵‍💫 why do they do it 😵‍💫😵‍💫😵‍💫 funnily enough if any men in our family had treated their wife like that.

Mum would have chases them with a slipper hard 😅